ARR often feels very contradictory in its design (long)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldGeezer

You can run CT with all of them, and get tombs for all of them. You just can't get gear drops for all of them during the same week. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

---

Yes, actually you can- by creating alts- JUST LIKE IN EVERY OTHER GAME.

What is the point of the armory system??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldGeezer

Just because you can choose to play every class doesn't mean you get to end-game raid every class simultaneously. That's not how it works. SE gives you the choice to choose-so choose...and live with the choice. So you can't have your cake at eat it too. It's not a design flaw. If you want to do CT os a WHM you can, if you want to run coil the same week as a BRD you can. You just can't powergear them at the same time in both. You have the easy option to gear up every role in Darklight gear, and then you have to choose.

---

Just an example:
You can do all of that, you just logout and create a new character.

Main character warrior: Do weekly coil run, cap myth, daily treasure, daily quests, weekly CT. Logout and select your second character

Dragoon: Do weekly coil run, cap myth, daily treasure, daily quests, weekly CT. Logout and select your third character

White Mage: Do weekly coil run, cap myth, daily treasure, daily quests, weekly CT. Logout and select your fourth character and then repeat for however much you want to play.

Minus maybe daily quests for "rep" or coil for gear funneling "abuse" all those caps could've just been integrated onto the armory system with unique lockouts to each class as opposed to complete character lockout.

good lord if i could thumbs this up harder i would. glad to see there is such a massive agreement on something i keep talking to my friends about, thinking "maybe this is just how all new MMOs are and i just have to deal with it i guess". Good to see im far from the only person who thinks like the OP.

Honestly 1.0 by the end had something great being set up and its a damn shame they threw it all away for what we have now, i actually sometimes look around if there is for some crazy reason a 1.2x private server up just to go back to how it was. I hate this feeling that i just keep waiting for something to happen and SE finally decides to fix the issues with the game and have a clear direction, but i have this feelin deep in the pit of my stomache that we wont ever see much more than what we have. More of the same crap with plenty of lock outs and lots of "how hard can you dodge those red circle" fights.

If Yoshi saw half the stuff in this thread he would probably feel slightly dissapointed that he had all the opportunity in the world to make something great, but he let trying to please investors and all the different players all at once get to him and ended up with a confusing mess. Is there still potential here to make it great? very much so, but we wont see it for quite some time most likely (or be told about it honestly) and by the time they get their ideas sorted out, this will be another game with a few servers up in the giant crowd of F2P MMOs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldGeezer

Just because you can choose to play every class doesn't mean you get to end-game raid every class simultaneously. That's not how it works. SE gives you the choice to choose-so choose...and live with the choice. So you can't have your cake at eat it too. It's not a design flaw. If you want to do CT os a WHM you can, if you want to run coil the same week as a BRD you can. You just can't powergear them at the same time in both. You have the easy option to gear up every role in Darklight gear, and then you have to choose.

---

Except, if we had each of our jobs on a different character we would be able to end-game raid every class simultaneously (after having also spent the time on each needed to gather their cross-class abilities), as in every MMO that doesn't encourage (again, cross-class skills) stacking classes into a single character without locking that character, rather than its classes (which in any other MMO would be each separate characters), out.

That said, I still don't have that large an issue with CT's lockouts. But its design is certainly contradictory to its given intentions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldGeezer

Trust me as a BRD I wish I had more options to put in my rotation and I love invigorate as a cross-class skill. I use it all the itme. But I don't use the melee stuff because I'm ranged. There is s a limit to what you can do with these cross-class abilities and that doesn't even consider balance between the classes. Just think if Monks could use the straight shot and put a perpetual +10% crit chance ontop of their skill and strength enhancements in their rotations. People would scream injustice because they'd be too OP. Balance is always a ticky subject and SE could definitely improve in this area but developing special abilites for one class that wouldn't be exploited by another is a tricky subject.

---

In Bard's case, just changing out how Straight Shot works to a more fluid 'Grouping of Shots', etc, mechanic would probably help with your rotation a lot. (Critical hit) rating nominalizations might also help thereafter to add use to more than what is presently just HS, rebuffs, and Straighter Shot procs.

[Rating is gathered by, say, non-crits, while crits consume rating--essentially, the longer you go without a critical strike, the higher chance you have of getting one; that chance (rating) is not consumed by auto-crits, a bit less rating is consumed by minor hits, and a bit more by larger hits (to the same average), but a secondary stat or hidden mechanic can also thereby improve the critical chance proportionate to potential damage increase (potency), while another can even increase the level of nominalization, usable in basically auto-critting within a certain rotational string.]

It would still be nice to have more than just 1-3 direct damage abilities though, depending on how you personally define them, (just one primary use, at any rate), and for our cross-class skills to be worth something again; I miss their burst on any class, tbh. If Skill Speed would effect Blunt Arrow, Repelling Shot, and (most importantly) at least slightly effect Invigorate, that would probably help a lot too. (Likewise with Invigorate on other classes.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldGeezer

Because they don't want to screw the players even more. People are ok interacting with a system with fixed costs and prices. They aren't with a system that fluctuates. Gatherers jack crafters, who in turn jack customers. The prices are way out of sync with SE price menu. Thanks to the beast quests I can buy velveteen cloth for 169 gil, but the cheapest diremite web it costs to make it was 220 gil/ea on the auction house-and you need 2! If gear progression was dependent on crafters you'd have the chaos we had at the beginning where people are charging 1 million gil for 2-star gear when the average person making it to level 50 has 250k via the main storyline. How does one raid legitimately under such conditions. The answer is that most will not be able to. If crafters charged reasonable prices for items you could build a progression system around them, but the simple fact is they don't. They jack the customer and making player-crafting the vehicle for game progression would be a disaster.

However, that does not mean crafting does not have a place in this game. It's market is a secondary market, alt-gear and housing supplies. Lots of people are still grinding alts and since you can't FATE grind to 50 in your birthday suit anymore people will need gear on the way to 50. Lots of people claim that housing supplies are worthless today because FC already have crafters in guild to make their items. That is true, but when the individual housing opens up in a few months, the sky will be the limit because all of those people who "skipped" crafting are going to need their wares unless they want their new house to be 1 empty room.

+

And are completely superficial. Whether i have a pink, jet-black, or orange Artemis bow, you still have an Artemis bow. HQ crafted gear has the same primary stats as green dungeon gear and you have materia slots and dye to customize it. So if you really want it that badly you can get it, it's just that you'd have to make it yourself or pay someone gil for it. It just doesn't drop in a dungeon. That's the real grievance here. It's not as easy or cheap as a 30-minute dungeon grind. Could they revamp gear sets and put a dye slot and remove the pre-assigned materia contribution? Maybe, maybe it will come in a forthcoming patch. The option to customize stats and color exist and you can use it on gear at any level sub ilevel 80.. All it takes is a a little effort.

---

^ This, for the most part. Though really, it's not the level of importance crafting has in the game that bugs me (I think it's just fine, given what it supplies--though that isn't really much...), so much as that it could be a lot more interestingly integrated into the game. It's similar to how our cross-class abilities fall short. There's no interplay between a sword you've made for yourself and using it, and it's not like you could actually personalize a craft anyways. As a crafter, dungeon drops and their designs while adventuring should be playing into your own ideas (or more concretely, abilities, recipes, etc.) as you come across them and, say, 'analyze' them. Instead, crafting is consistently just sitting at a portadesk and cutting or hammering balls of light. You don't get to know your crafting processes nor the resultant product any better through the materials, and there are never choices within a certain level and class. Rather than part of the game, it feels more like a mini-game that shares an online marketplace with this one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldGeezer

And this is where we differ. I was totally disenchanted with the 4 minutes of running it took to go from Grindaria to Brentbranch or the 15 minute run to Quarry mill. Sure it was big, but it shouldn't be big just for big's sake. Also, let's be honest here, the graphics for these extended areas sucked. SE chose to go condensed and pretty and I'm glad they did. Sure the monsters aren't that challenging, but then again 1.0 wasn't that challenging either. Some people think open worlds give some tangible benefit to the MMOs experience. Personally, I think it's just an excuse for crappy coding.

---

I have to agree with you in many respects here, but I do think there is a definite beauty in large landscapes when they are done well. I'd agree that most of the early Shroud was disenchanting, though I did enjoy it, probably for the simple fact that it had Turning Leaf, Treespeak, and Sorrel Havens. But I'd likely enjoy each of those even more as their separate zones, and preferably without being filled to the brim with camps, NPCs, and various doodads. But to me there is a beauty in a smooth but transitive flow of terrain, rather than the sharp and sudden contrast between zones (we could say the same for the border between Drybone and Tranquil before). If smallish zones can still pull that off, then great. But I'd sooner take a zone that's a bit scare of manmade features and takes more than 4 minutes to ride across than one that's built a town, keep, or hamlet half a mile from the one before.

Additionally, a lot of the problems the Shroud had before hasn't improved. A few zones are still awkwardly closed off or labyrinthine. A good deal of the areas here feels like a walk to a vista on some peninsula.

You can't gear up all jobs at the same time but you can gear up some jobs at the same time. You can't gear up all jobs on the same content but if you do all the content available you can gear each job in it's own way.

The easiest one is philosophy tomes, can gear up any job to 70 easily.

Now with CT you can gear up one job with i80 gear in 6 weeks(armor side) but still need accessories from other events.

With coil you have a means to gear up one job to i90 but it's all random in hoping your loot drops.

Then there is mythology with the current cap being 450 as a means to gear another job.

Basically while you are gearing up one job with CT gear, you can buy gear for another job with mytho and if you do coil you can gear yet another job with that(if the armor drops).

So it is possible to gear up multiple jobs at once you just can't expect it to be as fast as if you focus on only one job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ri_ri

I think we all agree on that.

Hence the title of the thread. It's contradictory to have a feature, then gimp the ones who use that feature.

---

Apples and oranges. Armoury works as designed. Raid lockout works as designed. They are two separate things. There is no contradiction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Yes, actually you can- by creating alts- JUST LIKE IN EVERY OTHER GAME.

What is the point of the armory system??

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kokorozashii

*snip*

---

It's still 1 run/piece per character. Just because you do an end-run aorund by grinding another character doesn't change this fact. You still can't have both pieces on the same character can you? Why should that invalidate the raid lockout because you grind an entirely new chatacter or have anything to do with the function of the armoury system? They are two separate issues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Yes, actually you can- by creating alts- JUST LIKE IN EVERY OTHER GAME.

What is the point of the armory system??

---

pretty much what im thinking. But in general the class system should just go and just go for jobs. At this point even classes find no use past 30 with much weaker stats and even worse the fact that cross classing most skills is entirely useless. WHen my friend first came on as a 50 MRD, he was baffled that he doesnt even have the MP to even raise, and his cures were utterly useless to say the least while being only able to cast a few at most. anything going between DoW and DoM was a waste of time, while 80% of each classes skills on another class were either unusable or so crappy on another class is wasnt worth wasting your time.

If they had some balls they would just wipe the class system and expand on jobs alone, give people that are ARC ample time to unlock both jobs before removing the system. The game hardly relys on it so why have it? And preferably clean house before more jobs get branched off.

Can you imagine they put Dark-knight off MRD or Samurai off DRG and with both your stuck with axes and spears? At some point its just gonna end up being stupid or they will need classes for just about every job...again making it pointless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kokorozashii

Just an example:
You can do all of that, you just logout and create a new character.

Main character warrior: Do weekly coil run, cap myth, daily treasure, daily quests, weekly CT. Logout and select your second character

Dragoon: Do weekly coil run, cap myth, daily treasure, daily quests, weekly CT. Logout and select your third character

White Mage: Do weekly coil run, cap myth, daily treasure, daily quests, weekly CT. Logout and select your fourth character and then repeat for however much you want to play.

Minus maybe daily quests for "rep" or coil for gear funneling "abuse" all those caps could've just been integrated onto the armory system with unique lockouts to each class as opposed to complete character lockout.

---

people are right with the whole lock out, your better off doing alts like most MMOs force you to because you can gear them all up at the same time, here its backwards, all on one guy, but wait weeks upon weeks to put them in relic/aliagn/CT gear. Its all there for the sake of making the game last longer because there is not much endgame....and you get to it in stupidly short times (no idea why they make it so quick)

Its the reason most MMOs dont last, people think the large crowd is casuals, but casuals in general dont like MMOs because they take time, which is why every time MMOs pop these days people are sick of them in 6 months and they end up f2p...way more people play more like hardcore (or deticate more time to than they really think). Make leveling to cap take a while longer, just throw some stuff that takes some brains to do in-between or are worth doing the whole time going up so people dont have a reason to rush.

I fully agree with the points discussed in the article. I've been playing this game since ver 1.0 (but didn't really played much because the game was obviously incomplete) and I do agree that the developers had some direction they were aiming for at that time, but in ARR its direction is a bit ambiguous. Actually right now, it feels like the game is just turning into a ridiculous fanservice where elements of other ff games are being mindlessly put in, causing an identity issue for the game itself, and also chipping away some the unique world/realm of FFXIV that ver. 1.0 established. The shallow combat and ability system of the game is also quickly becoming a turn off and feels like it was just rushed to give the game a viable combat system. For now, I'll stick for a while and see whether the developers are planning to improve/fix the game's current flaws or if they're just going to keep these things as is.

You can add mounts to your list of contradicting content.

Mounts made more sense in the last game because the world was massive and you were constantly doing outside content, ARR isn't even half the size and you don't really need mounts at all because outside world content is useless once everything is max level.

Mounts in ARR are as useless as Minions it's epic fail, it's just more pointless flashy crap to make people feel good about earning something with no real use in the game.
Mounts were so much more bad ass in the old game as far as there purpose was concerned and the use you got out of them.
Also with that old open world they could have even added flying mounts.

The list goes on ARR is really just A Realm Rejected.

A hardcore MMO gamer has more knowledge about how an MMO should be put together than this, this game hurts my brain it's that dumb.