Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

the semantics of the term gender lock has already been largely debated, basically it comes down to it being the accepted term for this type of thing.

For a little help think of it like this you are locked in to playing female for Viera and male for Hrothgar rather than locked out of male Viera and female Hrothgar, former implies that is all there is while the latter implies they are there which ofc their assets are not atm, lore is but no models :P

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Not sure I follow....the wording here is abit Janky.
And sure its an accepted term...but the wording of that....word, are just a little weird.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Not sure I follow....the wording here is abit Janky.
And sure its an accepted term...but the wording of that....word, are just a little weird.

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English language is fun XD context is the key

To lock something is usually perceived as being not allowed to enter(Locked out), in this case male Viera/female Hrothgar, however, you can have to lock something as being not allowed to leave(Locked in), in this case you are forced to be a female if you wanna be a Viera and a male if wanna be a Hrothgar.

The word genderlock is usually used incorrectly as most refer to being locked out of something however as a word it is perfectly valid to use in this situation so long as the person using it refers to it as being locked into being a female for Viera and a male for Hrothgar.

Again gotta love the English Language XD

Edit: its best when someone is using it to think about them talking about being locked in unless they bring other words like denied/access etc

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

English language is fun XD context is the key

To lock something is usually perceived as being not allowed to enter(Locked out), in this case male Viera/female Hrothgar, however, you can have to lock something as being not allowed to leave(Locked in), in this case you are forced to be a female if you wanna be a Viera and a male if wanna be a Hrothgar.

The word genderlock is usually used incorrectly as most refer to being locked out of something however as a word it is perfectly valid to use in this situation so long as the person using it refers to it as being locked into being a female for Viera and a male for Hrothgar.

Again gotta love the English Language XD

Edit: its best when someone is using it to think about them talking about being locked in unless they bring other words like denied/access etc

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The English Language isn't that hard to understand. Its just complex for no reason because of a Million factors that goes in how its Communicated XD

But see that still doesn't fix it, because "being Locked in" or "Being Locked out" still makes it sound like the other option exists, and we are being barred from it....but no other option (currently) exists. So calling it a "Lock" makes no sense. Accepted term or not, it still makes no sense as a word to use XD

Regardless of whether we call it genderlocked or limited races the situation is still the same. At the end of the day I just want my hard earned hairs back and the missing genders to be added.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Although I agree with the thrust of your argument, i.e. that they should not require anything more than the sub the game is already attracting (not to mention the cash shop income), I don't think taking it to that extent is necessary. After all, their developers are very committed, to the point that they put in extra work to try alleviate the situation with the Hrothgar and Viera headgear somewhat.

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I know this, I'm not implying that Squeenix doesn't work hard. It's just a lot of the time I see posts on this forum, reddit, ect that try and woobiefy SE in an effort to call players ungrateful for any grievances that they have; almost as if they truly believe that Yoshida is a one-man-band carrying the entirety of SE on his back since he's the spokesperson for the game and the only person we see "talking to us". Yes, humanizing workers is important as the other end of that spectrum is how we get Karens, however, some people I've spotted tend to get overly protective of a multimillion dollar brand who has no idea they even exist; almost as if they forget we have a very transaction-based relationship with SE; we give them money, they give us their video game.

After all, if you were in a restaurant and your food was taking forever, the correct and humane thing to do would be to understand that the workers are trying to get your food to you in a timely manner and try to be patent; but I'm certain you wouldn't suggest you and your loved ones jump behind the counters and start working in the kitchen yourselves. You can recognize that the workers are human while still remembering that you are a paying customer and you are trusting these people to deliver you a satisfying product.

tldr: Yes, square works hard. but lets not handle them with kid gloves and pretend that they're not literally rolling in the millions they make off of us a year.

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Originally Posted by official_coconut

Regardless of whether we call it genderlocked or limited races the situation is still the same. At the end of the day I just want my hard earned hairs back and the missing genders to be added.

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Nobody is arguing against that. Im just questioning a word lol

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Originally Posted by Mochamonarch

tldr: Yes, square works hard. but lets not handle them with kid gloves and pretend that they're not literally rolling in the millions they make off of us a year.

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It's a mutually beneficial transaction, but yes the fawning adulation is as bad as the people sniping at them, IMO, and loses focus on what the nature of the transaction is at the end of the day. I also think it's silly to think it's incumbent upon us to crowdfund this. Likewise with the graphics/texture upgrades. It could eventually get to the point where if I don't see the budget being directed towards it, I might reassess whether the game is value for money, for me.

My point was, rather, that they are passionate about their product, and it often shines through, but I think the budgetary constraints imposed on the game sometimes make it difficult to deliver it as fully as they would prefer to - it's a for-profit venture, in the end, so that's understandable as it must be kept financially viable, however I think it's now at the point where it could do with greater reinvestment. Especially since that will extend its longevity.

I support having both genders of the recent new races (the bunnies and beast folk). :)

Don't worry just like with OG Miqo'te and Roes you'll get your Bunny Hunks and Actual Cat Girls in time.

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Originally Posted by Rakshazi

Yenow, there is a lot of talk about how "we want" the genderlock removed, but is there any ideas about what we can ACTUALY DO to help SE make it? Like some kickstarter project to fund additional hands to the devs or something like that. I'm sure, that even if it's just part of the problem (even minor part), we can solve it in no time. So? Any news or treads about what SE needs?

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Why should we further fund a huge company like SE? The problem is more that SE seemingly dont want to put more budget into FF14 even though its one of their cash cows and that they also have no employees for certain parts. All of that can be changed by the company itself without us needing to do anything else. Heck us playing the game and paying for it monthly should be more than enough. (They could use all the new fantasia money they got from them too..) This is not a small indie company.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

This is not a small indie company.

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Won't SOMEONE think of the companies?!

To be fair, Shadowbringers seems like it has been given a lot more funding than anything prior. I don't believe that the missing genders are missing out of spite or for the sake of cutting corners. The development team simply focused on other elements of the game - and that would appear to be for the best based on how well the expansion has been received by both many critics and players alike.

We'll have to see if the high quality continues throughout the rest of the patch cycle and that 6.0 will also be a strong expansion.

So long as the quality remains high, I don't mind if we're left waiting for the missing genders. After all, no promises have been made in regards to adding them. Other elements of the game may very well be considered a more worthy use of resources and we need to acknowledge and accept that.

Yes, they're a large company - but the solution isn't a simple one. Even if more developers are hired, they still need to be trained. Plus the development team already has its hands full with the content planned already - not to mention a very tight release schedule.

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Originally Posted by Rakshazi

Yenow, there is a lot of talk about how "we want" the genderlock removed, but is there any ideas about what we can ACTUALY DO to help SE make it? Like some kickstarter project to fund additional hands to the devs or something like that. I'm sure, that even if it's just part of the problem (even minor part), we can solve it in no time. So? Any news or treads about what SE needs?

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if SE wants that, I will be glad to help. But this type of kickstarter have to be promoted by SE, we can't do nothing if SE don't start it. I will not believe in one stranger who appear and say "hello! Give me your money and I swear that I will give it all to SE, and make them promise that they will make the missing genders".

by the way, somedays ago I said that I was working on a drawing of my character. Here it is, it's not a masterpiece "OMG LOOK AT THAT!", but I drawed this just to show my suport to male vieras (and because I was on Praetorium, this main scenario is too boring, and I had nothing better to do...)
https://uploaddeimagens.com.br/image...png?1564009617

Yeah, I used one youtube tutorial to draw this. I'm not an artist, you know?

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Originally Posted by Lauront

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Yeah, I know SE is passionate about their game, by "passion project" I didn't mean to imply that they aren't passionate, I meant that usually a passion project implies that it's somebody's brain child that they are constructing without the motivation of money or sales. Something like Mounty Oum's Dead Fantasy or Scott Cawthon's FNAF (the first one.) would be considered passion projects. Final Fantasy is not a passion project, it is a franchise that has had countless games under its belt. Again, this doesn't imply that their employees don't love the game and put their heart into it.

Also, if Square REALLY wanted to update their graphics while cutting corners, and wanted their customers to share the workload, they could just rip an HD mod from somebody in the community and simply use that. bam, free HD texture. This could be said for any of the custom mods people make. But they won't do this for glaringlyobvious reasons.

But In all honesty, my personal sympathy with Square is rather limited when it comes to their work load on the missing genders, as they really did bring it upon themselves. They simply got too ambitious and overestimated the horsepower of their staff and they thought they could handle building 2 races from scratch. They can't.

They should have stuck with making one complete race at a time, and then saved the other for another expansion, especially since this is going to be their last race; it would have made more sense logically to spread out their hype across multiple expansions, as more people would have been exited for 2 complete races. However, square thought that 2 halves would equal a whole, which they don't. People asked for Viera, and people asked for a beastly race, yes. However I don't think anybody expected both to happen at the same time; that was SE's flub up.

imo they bit off way more than they could chew, and now they're paying for it, as both of their races are half-done and don't feel complete. missing genders asside, releasing a race with limited assets , limited customization and promising to fix them later is like (bringing it back to the restaurant analogy) like getting only half of your food with the promise the chef will prepare the rest some other time. This is a HUGE oversight that I believe someone up the development ladder should have seen coming.

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

https://uploaddeimagens.com.br/image...png?1564009617

Yeah, I used one youtube tutorial to draw this. I'm not an artist, you know?

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Such a handsome bunny man! He looks great! :) I think you did fine enough, the angle of the face is lovely, gives him a masculine look while still being able to look more vulnerable should the situation call for it. The detail on the ears gives the picture a nice texture that helps establish more realism. I also like how you drew the eyes. I think some colour would really help make the picture pop more. I also recommend to try adding a visible adam's apple as another que to signal that this character is indeed male.

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Originally Posted by Mochamonarch

Such a handsome bunny man! He looks great! :) I think you did fine enough, the angle of the face is lovely, gives him a masculine look while still being able to look more vulnerable should the situation call for it. The detail on the ears gives the picture a nice texture that helps establish more realism. I also like how you drew the eyes. I think some colour would really help make the picture pop more. I also recommend to try adding a visible adam's apple as another que to signal that this character is indeed male.

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thank you! I will try to do the adam's apple next time. For the color I need to confess... I'm very bad in colouring things =/ (but I can try)

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

thank you! I will try to do the adam's apple next time. For the color I need to confess... I'm very bad in colouring things =/ (but I can try)

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If you have a program for digital art you can paste this picture onto it, make a new layer underneath it, and set the original drawing's layer mode to "multiply". Then you can color it on the bottom layer and the original drawing will work like lineart and your coloring won't interfere with the lines (and it'll have a nice paper texture from the photo). Good luck! Your drawing and character are both lovely.

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Originally Posted by CoolDad

If you have a program for digital art you can paste this picture onto it, make a new layer underneath it, and set the original drawing's layer mode to "multiply". Then you can color it on the bottom layer and the original drawing will work like lineart and your coloring won't interfere with the lines (and it'll have a nice paper texture from the photo). Good luck! Your drawing and character are both lovely.

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Thanks! I will try to use Photoshop to give some colour to this one.

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Originally Posted by Xia_Thas

Don't worry just like with OG Miqo'te and Roes you'll get your Bunny Hunks and Actual Cat Girls in time.

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Actually....

Even the races are similar in concept?

Miqote are human with ears, same for the viera race, and roes are huge bulky masculine beasts, like the hrotgar race. Hoenstly I think that if SE though it was a good idea to genderlock races that are echoes of thos that had to be genrderunlocked in the past, I think there's a serious comunication issue here

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Actually....

Even the races are similar in concept?

Miqote are human with ears, same for the viera race, and roes are huge bulky masculine beasts, like the hrotgar race. Hoenstly I think that if SE though it was a good idea to genderlock races that are echoes of thos that had to be genrderunlocked in the past, I think there's a serious comunication issue here

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I've always thought that individually, they would be fine, but when juxtaposed they give rise to an image that is not. I wonder what would have happened had the genders been reversed and we got Male Viera and Female Hrothgar Genderlocked... its pointless speculation, but interesting nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

I wonder what would have happened had the genders been reversed

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We'd be seeing a lot more dudebros suddenly heavily invested in the ethics of genderlocking in modern MMOs. You saw the outcry that happened when that one Persona character's leotard got (stupidly) censored. It'd just be that but with bunny girl booty.

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

I've always thought that individually, they would be fine, but when juxtaposed they give rise to an image that is not. I wonder what would have happened had the genders been reversed and we got Male Viera and Female Hrothgar Genderlocked... its pointless speculation, but interesting nonetheless.

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Male viera and female hrotgar bring much more than female viera and male hrotgar. For beastial females haev absolutely nothing remotely close to that, but males have male au ra, which is rather bestial all things considered, and male roegadyn can also fall here. Female characters have literally almost all of their characters being waifus, and they have elegant characters, while males lack a good tall character with decent animations (male au ra's animations are just bad imo), and theres fewer husbandos than waifus (depending on ur like, maaaaaybe its rather equal), plus male viera are something new to FF

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Male viera and female hrotgar bring much more than female viera and male hrotgar. For beastial females haev absolutely nothing remotely close to that, but males have male au ra, which is rather bestial all things considered, and male roegadyn can also fall here. Female characters have literally almost all of their characters being waifus, and they have elegant characters, while males lack a good tall character with decent animations (male au ra's animations are just bad imo), and theres fewer husbandos than waifus (depending on ur like, maaaaaybe its rather equal), plus male viera are something new to FF

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I think the were catbois revolutionary when it came to husbandos. And I feel like a lot of the Au ra idle poses give them that sort of Executive elegance (Like a ceo or something), though their emotes leave them a lot more traditionally masculine, which is fine and all. Elezens poses can be rather stiff, especially the males. With their height, they could have really been the graceful gazelles of ff14 but we have these awkward baby calf's instead.

I wish Huyrs had cuter looking soft guys. I've almost never seen anyone make a cute hyur. (If anyone has any cute soft hyur men, hmu, I wanna see.)

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Originally Posted by Mochamonarch

I think the were catbois revolutionary when it came to husbandos. And I feel like a lot of the Au ra idle poses give them that sort of Executive elegance (Like a ceo or something), though their emotes leave them a lot more traditionally masculine, which is fine and all. Elezens poses can be rather stiff, especially the males. With their height, they could have really been the graceful gazelles of ff14 but we have these awkward baby calf's instead.

I wish Huyrs had cuter looking soft guys. I've almost never seen anyone make a cute hyur. (If anyone has any cute soft hyur men, hmu, I wanna see.)

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eeeeeh, to me, male au ra are kinda anything but elegant (who made their animations?! QWQ) Elezen are just an interesting beast race based on giraffes, and I try to make my hyur as soft as possible, but im not sure I succeded qwq

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Originally Posted by Mochamonarch

We'd be seeing a lot more dudebros suddenly heavily invested in the ethics of genderlocking in modern MMOs. You saw the outcry that happened when that one Persona character's leotard got (stupidly) censored. It'd just be that but with bunny girl booty.

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If there was only male viera then all the ppl being like EWWWW STOP CRYING ABOUT MALE VIERA would be 5000000 times more vocal than us lol

I think it would be good to leave a like on grinkdaboy's question in the Live Letter thread to see if we can get some news regarding this situation:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-Questions%21

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Originally Posted by official_coconut

I think it would be good to leave a like on grinkdaboy's question in the Live Letter thread to see if we can get some news regarding this situation:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-Questions%21

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I did, feel free to like it it migth get responded if it has enough likes. I simply asked if there's a chance to see the missing genders through 5.x, or if theres a chance to see them at 6.0

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

...

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Cool, I wonder if he would have actually stopped to say hi if she caught up in time.

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

by the way, somedays ago I said that I was working on a drawing of my character. Here it is, it's not a masterpiece "OMG LOOK AT THAT!", but I drawed this just to show my suport to male vieras (and because I was on Praetorium, this main scenario is too boring, and I had nothing better to do...)
https://uploaddeimagens.com.br/image...png?1564009617

Yeah, I used one youtube tutorial to draw this. I'm not an artist, you know?

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Very nice artwork, thanks for sharing

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Originally Posted by official_coconut

I think it would be good to leave a like on grinkdaboy's question in the Live Letter thread to see if we can get some news regarding this situation:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-Questions%21

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ty for the link, left a like

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

if SE wants that, I will be glad to help. But this type of kickstarter have to be promoted by SE, we can't do nothing if SE don't start it. I will not believe in one stranger who appear and say "hello! Give me your money and I swear that I will give it all to SE, and make them promise that they will make the missing genders".

by the way, somedays ago I said that I was working on a drawing of my character. Here it is, it's not a masterpiece "OMG LOOK AT THAT!", but I drawed this just to show my suport to male vieras (and because I was on Praetorium, this main scenario is too boring, and I had nothing better to do...)
https://uploaddeimagens.com.br/image...png?1564009617

Yeah, I used one youtube tutorial to draw this. I'm not an artist, you know?

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It looks great :D

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Originally Posted by Umeikoai

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Don't jumpscare me like that.

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Originally Posted by official_coconut

I think it would be good to leave a like on grinkdaboy's question in the Live Letter thread to see if we can get some news regarding this situation:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-Questions%21

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I also dropped the question a like. Something tells me we're going to get another wishy-washy cop-out answer, but I want us to pester the living hell out of SE about this. It's been proven that Squeenix doesn't know that something is truly wanted until it's brought up over and over. We need to make sure they hear about M!Viera and F!Hrothgar every live letter, let them know that we won't forget what they did, and we won't let them forget.

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Originally Posted by Mochamonarch

I also dropped the question a like. Something tells me we're going to get another wishy-washy cop-out answer, but I want us to pester the living hell out of SE about this. It's been proven that Squeenix doesn't know that something is truly wanted until it's brought up heads over and over. We need to make sure they hear about M!Viera and F!Hrothgar every live letter, let them know that we won't forget what they did, and we won't let them forget.

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Yes! Never let them forget they made a great expansion!

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

great expansion

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lol That's a word for it.

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Originally Posted by Mochamonarch

That's a word for it.

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It is. Amazing, wonderful, fantastic, and phenomenal are also words I would use to describe this expansion! :)

I would describe it as partly incomplete aside from the story content. Because well, it is. Although from what little I have seen of Shadowbringers' story in trailers (since I'm not there yet) it looks really interesting, on the other hand I would have rather waited for complete races than deal with missing my hairs that I earned/bought and the glaring issue of the missing genders.

Yes, totally on board for Male Viera. But also Female Thunder Cats. Fair is fair, oui?

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Originally Posted by official_coconut

I would describe it as partly incomplete aside from the story content. Because well, it is. Although from what little I have seen of Shadowbringers' story in trailers (since I'm not there yet) it looks really interesting, on the other hand I would have rather waited for complete races than deal with missing my hairs that I earned/bought and the glaring issue of the missing genders.

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Since they already plan to get you your old hairstyles back, I don't really see the issue. The expansion itself was amazing and the content was enjoyable!

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Originally Posted by Mochamonarch

It's been proven that Squeenix doesn't know that something is truly wanted until it's brought up heads over and over. We need to make sure they hear about M!Viera and F!Hrothgar every live letter, let them know that we won't forget what they did, and we won't let them forget.

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Agreed. If we want male viera, we should keep up the support.

Something Yoshida said before:

"When we say 'feedback', that's just one word, but what we want is to hear all of the differing opinions-if they're upset about the lack of male Viera, or disappointed about that there's no female Hrothgar. First, we need to investigate each sort of concern, as well as the amount and 'temperature' of player concerns. If we don't analyse it, we won't be able to come up with the right answer."
https://www.usgamer.net/articles/fin...r-trust-system

Asking about male viera and female hrothgar, and liking those posts, shows there is still a demand.

coconut left a link to the letter, but it was not a direct link to grinkdaboy's question, so I will leave the direct link here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...40#post5098340

To anyone who hasn't already, please leave a like on his post.

A few hours ago when I checked last time his post was only in the 20s I believe. Now it's nearly at 50 likes. Considering how much the likes on the posts in that thread varies, its definitely one of the issues people are concerned about the most. At a glance there are only two questions higher than it with 60 likes, but I don't have time to look through each page.

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Originally Posted by official_coconut

A few hours ago when I checked last time his post was only in the 20s I believe. Now it's nearly at 50 likes. Considering how much the likes on the posts in that thread varies, its definitely one of the issues people are concerned about the most. At a glance there are only two questions higher than it with 60 likes, but I don't have time to look through each page.

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It seems that its one of the most liked (if not the most liked) quesions, just like how the male viera thread is, by far, the most liked thread ever on this forums

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Originally Posted by Senn

Agreed. If we want male viera, we should keep up the support.

Something Yoshida said before:

"When we say 'feedback', that's just one word, but what we want is to hear all of the differing opinions-if they're upset about the lack of male Viera, or disappointed about that there's no female Hrothgar. First, we need to investigate each sort of concern, as well as the amount and 'temperature' of player concerns. If we don't analyse it, we won't be able to come up with the right answer."
https://www.usgamer.net/articles/fin...r-trust-system

Asking about male viera and female hrothgar, and liking those posts, shows there is still a demand.

coconut left a link to the letter, but it was not a direct link to grinkdaboy's question, so I will leave the direct link here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...40#post5098340

To anyone who hasn't already, please leave a like on his post.

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Done. I will bring some friends to like this post too (they play this game and want the missing genders, but they don't read the forum)