So, how is Pagos?

skipped this content entirely, I know when something isn't worth my time or money. (fighting over spots, toxic behavior etc)

I haven't really played all week. I did the challenge log and aside from logging in briefly to check on my Squadron's weekly mission, do weekly crafter turn-ins, etc I haven't logged on all week apart from it.

I'm a relic kind of person and I just can't stay engaged with pagos.

Getting a group that not only sticks together for more than ten minutes, AND getting one of the two decent spots for the sleeping dragons, is such a pain in the ass. Trying out other mobs is only nice if your luck is really, really good so rng hands you plenty of light ticks; otherwise you, like so many other people, will find the suffusions to be less than half as often as the dragons. And this situation is only bound to get worse as more and more people hit level 35. Never mind the fact that it becomes less than feasible if two groups try to share one spot because the amount of light per increase is brought down to a hair's width, if that.

Meanwhile, we know of no internal hints or indicators as to anything that is legitimately better (read: reliable source of stronger light) than what we have now.

Meanwhile, the vast majority of us bothering with Pagos are likely just trying to get it done so we don't have to come back to it. Some of us even have multiple relic weapons that we need since we may or may not skip out on savage raid content.

The experience right now is rather grotesque. It's not the only problem Pagos has, by far, but it puts a big, bright spotlight on all that was wrong with Eureka's design as it's turned up to XI. Instead of an apology, what have we gotten so far? Yoshi telling us to learn how to play as our predecessors did. Yeah, thanks. That's a thoughtful response.

Argh...

Griffins are a light option.

There is lies another problem. Everyone wants to farm dragons or anubys at lvl 35. You even remotely suggest something different and you get laughed at and told to pound sand. Was in there yesterday to try and spawn louhi for one lockout and did dragons for another lockout. I got 3 crystals. NM spawning I believe now has two issues: 1) complete lack of interest in it because the light rewards are worse than dragons and 2) there is still something wrong with spawn timers. we killed the val corpses every night start to finish and didn't see it pop once even though the instance hadn't seen him pop at all. I'm by no means advocating for NM Light to be the best source of light. I've seen the collected data and have started making sense of it, but NM light should be increased some to make it worth spawning them or give us another option to getting those pagos crystals.

Another thought on spawning: if bunny fats are blocking NMs, as a lot believe for the moment, that should be addressed as well. Right after the XP fix NMs were spawning like hotcakes but have now returned to the problem from before. Those things aren't even NMs and we shouldn't require a couple groups to go take them out just so NMs can be spawned. there are plenty of issues that can be addressed to make it fun and it should be fun. the other relics were fun. tedious at times yes but fun. this isn't fun at all.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

SE isn't going to trash the concept of open instances, and they are going to continue doing different things that you may or may not personally like.

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That's perfectly fine. They can make content however they like and if they don't want players like myself who dislike endless mob grinding without speaking or being allowed to help friends, then there are other products on the market aimed towards me. If there is a target audience for Pagos and Anemos, that's great, nice there's a game for you and hope you guys have fun. I have 11 days left on my sub, just leaving my feedback before that runs out.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

Griffins are a light option.

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Totally agree here. but good luck getting people to stay. Tried that with a group yesterday and after an hour it bombed out. some of us got a lot of light while others got nothing. there in lies the problem I think; if a full party is killing stuff and someone is getting light then everyone should get something. It should be completely individual based becuase an individual player isn't going to kill lvl 40 mobs solo. they will do it in a group. this is why dragons and anubys are considered best due to mutations and adaptations even though the data proves that to be false. People would rather get a little light constantly for the 3 hours and fight over camps then take the chance at higher lights gain with little change of proc.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

That's working as intended.

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And it's why I can step into Pagos during prime hours and get an instance of 83 people. If they don't act quickly Eureka mach three will fail simply because so many people abandoned Pagos and don't want to grind the old version, there won't be enough left.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

Pagos was way better than Anemos, and it is still better now There are still plenty of people doing Pagos. It's the train that isn't sustainable, because it does not help with light.

SE isn't going to trash the concept of open instances, and they are going to continue doing different things that you may or may not personally like. Deep dungeons, open instances, and map instances have been introduced previously and altered to fit Stormblood. I don't think they are done making changes to the game. I think they are only getting started.

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Even without consideration of the way SE has designed the content open instances are badly broken. As long as they have an object culling algorithm that removes a players current target, allows for invisible AoE's and removes players in your party while standing next to you they will never work. If SE really wants to continue on this path then they have to invest in the game platform to support large numbers of players concentrated in a single area or increase their instance servers and decrease the number of players per instance. It isn't like this is a new problem yet SE continues to do the failing thing over and over. Reminds me of that saying about insanity.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

And it's why I can step into Pagos during prime hours and get an instance of 83 people. If they don't act quickly Eureka mach three will fail simply because so many people abandoned Pagos and don't want to grind the old version, there won't be enough left.

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I see almost full instances outside of peak hours.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

And it's why I can step into Pagos during prime hours and get an instance of 83 people. If they don't act quickly Eureka mach three will fail simply because so many people abandoned Pagos and don't want to grind the old version, there won't be enough left.

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I got in a brand new instance of Pagos for the first 10 to 15 mins it was just the me and 3 people I went in with and it did not fill up quickly and that was early evening. I never saw Anemos like that.

The xp and nm's were fixed nearly right away due to the massive backlash received. Last thing that is annoying me the most is in fact light gains no matter how you approach the relic steps this one is so inconsistent with the others on how random it is. Some nights I can get 3 bright lights off of the 32 haunts solo back to back mind you then nothing. So 2-3 crystals in about 5 mins then absolutely nothing for about 30-50 mins of grinding. Oh and I find this real cute been playing around with the 34 haunts as well all last week they only have given me feeble light.

So the question I have is why does the 32 haunts give around 70% bright lights, but the 34 haunts only give 5-10% feeble? (elvl 35 btw)

They need to do something to reinvigorate the south half of the map.

The randomness of light, and the lack of mobs that give consistent light is probably by far the worst part of this experience. With only Dragons and Anubys giving consistent light it limits the farm points for the ever increasing population of level 35s, and even those aren't consistent through the entire group. Last farming time I got 4 light in 2hrs through dragons, but my FC mate that goes into Pagos with me got less than that and only keeps falling further behind me in light gains despite us doing the exact same thing. To be honest this late in the games the Devs need to just come out and tell us what we are missing, we are now two weeks from Patch 4.4 and the relic weapon stage will be completely useless then.

I just finished my first relic for WAR and honestly this had to be the most lack luster, un-fun content to date. Normally when I get a relic step done I'm like, "whoo finally I'm done. Now on to that DRK relic" but in Pagos I just felt exhausted and empty because it felt like I didn't earn any of that and whats more the story reflects it. Just do this, get me this, then leave me alone is literally what Krile and Gerolt can be summed up as. The RNG is what destroyed any chance of me returning for another relic, until the buff the heck out of the drops, because I can't be bothered to do "casual content" that has no disregard for my time and health.

Haven't been to Pagos in a while, challenge log in Anemos on Tuesdays then maybe one evening in Pagos is my usual plan.

Slowly getting to 35 and maybe grab one relic then wait for it be nerfed into the ground.

Haven’t felt so relieved to be done dealing with something in this game as I was finishing second elemental weapon in Pagos. It should be more of a cause for celebration and less an exasperated sigh of relief to finish a relic.

Doing mundane things such as roulettes and hunts (stuff I’ve done for years) is far more fun and relaxing than Pagos.

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Originally Posted by Vrankyl

The randomness of light, and the lack of mobs that give consistent light is probably by far the worst part of this experience. With only Dragons and Anubys giving consistent light it limits the farm points for the ever increasing population of level 35s, and even those aren't consistent through the entire group. Last farming time I got 4 light in 2hrs through dragons, but my FC mate that goes into Pagos with me got less than that and only keeps falling further behind me in light gains despite us doing the exact same thing. To be honest this late in the games the Devs need to just come out and tell us what we are missing, we are now two weeks from Patch 4.4 and the relic weapon stage will be completely useless then.

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Chimeras in the back of Louhi's cave give decent light as well though good luck convincing anyone to do them considering they're a huge pain the rear getting the group to properly do ram's/dragon's voice not to mention hard to get to at night.

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

Chimeras in the back of Louhi's cave give decent light as well though good luck convincing anyone to do them considering they're a huge pain the rear getting the group to properly do ram's/dragon's voice not to mention hard to get to at night.

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That's the funny thing. People think they're hard to kill while in fact they're pretty easy to kill. They don't have Dragon/Ram voice and you only have to worry about frontal AOEs. The only problem is when the Val Corpses spawn, which becomes a problem when you get aggro from them. Other than that, Chimeras are pretty easy to kill and can give an amount of light similar to what you get from killing Louhi from a single kill if you're lucky.

The Pagos Chimera do not use Ram Voice or Dragon Voice.

I will just copy paste what I say in FC chat
[15:00][FC]<Seiji Kyoshiro> Pagos in special I dont like what they did
[15:00][FC]<Seiji Kyoshiro> the design of the map, plus aetheryte lvl attune, lvl to use mount
[15:00][FC]<Seiji Kyoshiro> heavy grind for the relic
[15:02][FC]<Seiji Kyoshiro> Anemos at least the fate spawn exaclty where the train are
[15:02][FC]<Seiji Kyoshiro> Pagos no, Pagos the fate could spawn in the opposite loc of the train and people who are under 29 is busted due to the attune lvl
[15:03][FC]<Seiji Kyoshiro> and fates are most useful to these non-35 people
[15:06][FC]<Seiji Kyoshiro> I hope so, because even me who was ok with Anemos think Pagos was terrible
[15:08][FC]<Seiji Kyoshiro> Eureka system himself I think is ok, but how Pagos was made was terrible
[15:08][FC]<Seiji Kyoshiro> I'm under impression they ignore all criticism about Anemos and make it worse
[15:09][FC]<Seiji Kyoshiro> if they make fates more easy to spawn and put levequests, Eureka could be nice

This translate what I think about Pagos ):

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

Chimeras in the back of Louhi's cave give decent light as well though good luck convincing anyone to do them considering they're a huge pain the rear getting the group to properly do ram's/dragon's voice not to mention hard to get to at night.

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Unfortunately that isn't consistent at all. I actually had a group attempt to do the Chimeras. We did an entire 30 chain without anyone in the group getting a single light.

Light, as a whole, is far too inconsistently obtained. Maybe this has to do with what SE says, that people still haven't found the best way to farm light. Too bad for us, we can't even consistently get feeble lights.

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Originally Posted by TheGrimace

Light, as a whole, is far too inconsistently obtained. Maybe this has to do with what SE says, that people still haven't found the best way to farm light. Too bad for us, we can't even consistently get feeble lights.

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Sorry, SE, but most of us aren't about to sell our souls to a malevolent force just to make rng give us light consistently. If that's your game then you can forget it.

Well the whole thing is just a mess going to get 10 more crystals for second relic and not return till something changes. 32 haunts give blind lights not to mention the ones I got three times in a row solo then flat out nothing for the rest of the night. Which rules out "Light Bonus Windows". 34 haunts give feeble (Of course when not adapting/same with adapting but a lesser feeble light). This mob right here is already telling something is off when a lower lvl mob gives more light than its higher counter part. Dragons is still the best "consistent" way to farm light even though only two parties can effectively farm that so that makes a nice environment for a community to work together. /s

Farming enough crystals for about 5-6 weapons in anemos and catching all the serket and simurgh fates I could still didn't get their items till pagos nearly got released. So translating that into speed belt and cassie earring on nms that are not up as frequent, I am not holding my breath. O hat isn't as bad can at least sell the extra eyes you get for the ones you need.

After playing around and even using the good old nexus/anima light windows to see if something changed nothing ever did. Sometimes you just get 5 mutations on ice sprites back to back, or lights back to back for literally 3 mobs then its gone. All it comes down to is se idea of "fun" grinding and rng.

I level in Aneomos to 15 prior to the trains being a thing. I leveled to 35 within the first week of Pagos and have currently finished my third weapon. Eureka Pagos has felt like a large misstep after Anemos. The only things that has changed was lower frequency and strong inconsistency with FATEs, inconsistent relic progression, and extremely unrewarding bunny FATEs. The Development team went in the wrong direction with the August 20th update by bringing back the train instead of tripling the experience of the chains. I am not against the fate train, but a large problem for people starting Pagos is finding people their same level. New players are forced to follow others possible die traveling in areas they shouldn’t be at their level(mostly through Brushtip Gap). Level Sync system is long overdue. Level Sync was introduced in FFXI over ten years ago. FATEs do use a sync system on the NMs but when grinding chains that is not an option. Another problem with fates is that not everyone in the instance is working together on them. Some people are there AFK at the start and others are working on their weapon lights. Decreasing the fate spawn rate feels troublesome compared to Aneomos where everyone was working together as a community.

Drop rates on King Arthro and Cassie are far too low. Spawn conditions are bad as well with horrible weather patterns. Last four Cassies I have been at no one received an earring. There are times where there is no blizzard for six to twelve hours. Diadem Emergency Mission was guaranteed to give a 280 weapon, why is Cassie and King Artho not guaranteed?

I do not look forward to relics given FFXIV record with relics compared to FFXI. FFXIV relics feel worthless. I understand FFXI had the opposite problem where if you played a certain job and didn’t have appropriate weapon/spell you where not accepted into current content SoA and beyond. I am not asking for something to break Savage. There is other content besides Savage that I would like to use a stronger weapon that I spent a considerable amount of time on. I would not mind spending time/tomes to upgrade them every so often, but often is the case Relic weapons come out far later than tome/primal weapons and are extremely useless at that point. Relics are solely for achievements and glamour nothing more sadly.

Changes I would like to see in Pagos would be;
Party Level Sync option.
Increase Instance Duration.
Increase Exp from chains, remove the 30 chain cap.
Silver chests from bunny FATEs reward Hakutaku eyes.
Increase on the rate of lights/Augmentation/Mutations.
Replace the Ameretats on the west side with Val Griffins.
Increase the drop rate on Cassie Earring/Speed Belt.
More blizzard weather.
Change in the color of the telegraphs or lower the brightness of the heatwaves.

2.5 crystals away... I'm almost there, guys. I'm almost there!

But... but was it worth it?!

Hit 35 with basically nothing to show for my efforts, not even a weapon (largely because pagos is so boring and unrewarding for the effort put in I barely played the last 2 weeks).

I'm likely only returning if truly bored or they nerf pagos into the ground.

I think Pagos is...fine. It's ok. I've got my first weapon but not likely to go for anymore, though I still haven't seen some FATEs spawn (Cassie, Horus, maybe one other I think) and would quite like to give them a go.

There are so many things that could be done to improve the way Eureka works, which people have outlined again and again since Anemos first came out. I really like the idea of Eureka, and sincerely hope that changes get made to improve the reality of it.

Pagos was great before the nerf.

Now it's populated by afkers because Square caved in nerfing something that didn't need to be nerfed. I hope the third area is ten times the grind OG Pagos was.

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Originally Posted by Mesarthim

Hit 35 with basically nothing to show for my efforts, not even a weapon (largely because pagos is so boring and unrewarding for the effort put in I barely played the last 2 weeks).

I'm likely only returning if truly bored or they nerf pagos into the ground.

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Ya, I don't get why they did the light RNG again, haven't they realized by now that players have been asking for less RNG and yet they stick it in the middle.

The reason why the first Eureka location worked was because it was straightforward, you collect stuff at a steady pace and get to exchange it and yet they went 100000 steps backwards in the next phase.

What they could of done was just had it where you receive a Status Effect called let's say "Magicite Overload", while active the effect of the board changes, when engaged with a target you can't change the board and based on your elemental alignment the following happens. Same Element=no effect, Element>Foe=Less Light, Element<Foe=More Light but monsters becomes more agressive(Since they would of added a mechanic in which the mob generates a hidden factor based on the element they are hit with).

But basically, what players wanted was a means to feel like they could control the pace at which they gain their weapon and from what it sounds like, they just threw RNG into the game again and call it "gameplay".

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Originally Posted by Starblessed

Pagos was great before the nerf.

Now it's populated by afkers because Square caved in nerfing something that didn't need to be nerfed. I hope the third area is ten times the grind OG Pagos was.

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It was going to be populated by people not playing regardless. Finding like leveled groups if you not max for light farming or even leveling purposes is damn near impossible. Nerf or not people are sitting there not playing either spamming chat looking for a group or riding the train with the nerf.

is it just me or does nearly every person who tries to defend pagos say some variant of people just want relics handed to them? also non of the complaints are about it being a grind its that the grind doesn't match the reward

It's not just you. A lot of them really want to find justification in their love of doing a rotation on the same enemy for three hours with no additional strategy.

I don't get it either.

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Originally Posted by TheGrimace

It's not just you. A lot of them really want to find justification in their love of doing a rotation on the same enemy for three hours with no additional strategy.

I don't get it either.

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Is this a reference to chaining? If so, that's not how chaining parties actually work. Chaining parties do fight NMs close to their levels. Often they are the ones spawning those NMs. Good chaining parties also switch things up.

It's much better to have real potential consequences for a party wipe and an open world feel, where you feel like you are actually there. You can't say the same for most instances outside Diadem and PvP. The other instances remind me of the rail system. The mechanics never change. Once you know a fight, it is simple repetition. If you want to really adapt and use tactics and strategy, then do PvP. A tactic or strategy that wins you one match will get you wrecked in the next.

I wish I could find these "good chain parties" you speak of. I've looked and only found disappointment. Everything's about efficiency in Eureka, for better or worse, and until we can find out SE's golden light method, it has led to only really mind numbing hand numbing gameplay.

Level syncing ever going to be a thing?

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Originally Posted by Starblessed

Pagos was great before the nerf.

Now it's populated by afkers because Square caved in nerfing something that didn't need to be nerfed. I hope the third area is ten times the grind OG Pagos was.

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Considering Eureka is already dying, yes, let's up the grind. Nothing like dead "casual" content for the next year to keep those subs active. I almost want that to happen because the backlash would be so embarrassing, they might finally give up on Eureka in its current inception.

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Originally Posted by Starblessed

Pagos was great before the nerf.

Now it's populated by afkers because Square caved in nerfing something that didn't need to be nerfed. I hope the third area is ten times the grind OG Pagos was.

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Man how's the weather up there on your high tower?
People complained before the nerf, and are still complaining.
"But people just afk wah wah" yeah and? By and large most people in the game aren't exactly the greatest at doing the bare minimum of rotations and contribution towards duties. If you've still set your expectations of others so lofty to enjoy doing mindless, uninteresting, dull and repetitive monotony, you're not gonna have a game to set those expectations from for long because most people will find other, better means of spending their time/money.
Instead of blaming the playerbase because the content is controversial, you'd be better served complaining to SE for their unwillingness to make something worth doing.

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Originally Posted by Starblessed

Pagos was great before the nerf.

Now it's populated by afkers because Square caved in nerfing something that didn't need to be nerfed. I hope the third area is ten times the grind OG Pagos was.

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I mean if you want people not playing this content why not? But then maybe you might post here that suddenly there are no group left that you can grind the ten times bigger grind with. They dont change things because only a small part dislikes it. Such changes are mostly done because there might be a bigger part that dislikes it.

In the end if people find it better to "play" content by going mostly afk, then there is something wrong with the content, not the players.

(And lets not forget that constantly chaining is not good for your health)