How to Dragoon Per Second: A DPS Paradigm

I dont have BOTD yet :( I will probably get it today and will try to use this combination to see.

PS + Legs sometimes doesnt clip. BFB + BF always clip. Will test today with BF + BFB to see if i get the same results with PS+Legs and with IR+BOTD

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Precast BL. Only way to do it really. Negligible difference in damage.

Do you get the same issue with IR + BOTD as well?

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Do you use wtfast or anything? Gets my ping down pretty low and I hardly clip, atleast not by much when using bfb+bl.

I use both WTFast and Leatrix Latency Fix. I swear by the both of them. 84ms from London (though I do use fibre)

That's a little higher than mine, so then I have to be clipping as well. Though I never see the bfb animation since I use BL first. My character does the bl animation and then flashes red and goes into the gcd animation.

doesn't clip for me at all at 2.39 gcd (639 sksp)

made a clip just to make sure and looking at it frame by frame, don't really notice any clipping. it's definitely more animation heavy than any other buff combo though

https://d.maxfile.ro/iwlsdpxapu.webm

Battle Litany is beautiful, amazing, powerful and demands full attention of your oGCD :P

I have noticed that OGCD skills seem to be able to animation cancel BL sooner than GCDs. Same goes for BOTD.

what are DRAC and LIFES on the rotation list?

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Originally Posted by KefL0

what are DRAC and LIFES on the rotation list?

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Draconian potion of strength and Life Surge if I had to guess

Its not that they cancel the animation sooner. Each skill has 3 stages to it.

First stage is activation. This happens instantly and also factors in your latency and whether this skill has been "Skill queued".

The second is the "animation lock". This is broken down further into two parts. Timer until buff activates, and timer you're "locked" into your animation. This is unique to every skill and can sometimes last as long as the entire animation itself. Think Jump and Spinrshatter Dive. The duration of the Animations are exactly the same. However, you can move around and use another skill far earlier with SPD than you can with Jump.

And Thirdly is the actual animation itself. This is just fancy planar graphics, which is why it seems as if skill effects ate 3D. They're actually 2D planes which pan with your camera.

In stages 1 & 2 of the Ability used, no skills can be used. Sometimes, movement cannot be done and you're rooted in place until #2 has finished. The buff timer and the "animation lock", for the most part, happen at the same time. Which is why BL, WT and FCs animations can be broke instantly. Their buff timer is very short (almost instant)

Stage #2 is the part where you're able to use other skills afterwards and why it looks like you cancel the animation when you use either oCDs.

So i was trying again and decided to record to see how a failure is to play with high latency :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbiGRdOmRQ

Tried a lot and this is the best i could achieve. I dunno if i'm doing wrong but seems kinda foward that i should avoid 2 oGCD.

I have a question, if you already executed your CT combo without the botd buff, do you use FT combo instead this time with botd?

Yes. If it is time to pop BotD, it doesn't matter which combo is coming up.

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Originally Posted by Ukitsu

So i was trying again and decided to record to see how a failure is to play with high latency :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbiGRdOmRQ

Tried a lot and this is the best i could achieve. I dunno if i'm doing wrong but seems kinda foward that i should avoid 2 oGCD.

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This is how I have always played. Leatrix did not solve much. I know your pain.

I'd be curious to see what an ideal "high latency" rotation that uses mainly single ogcd skills would look like, and what the potency loss would be over the course of say, a 5 minute fight.

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Originally Posted by Neyka

I'd be curious to see what an ideal "high latency" rotation that uses mainly single ogcd skills would look like, and what the potency loss would be over the course of say, a 5 minute fight.

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You can download the sim and find out! =D

Simply set the "blank" oGCD timer check to be very high (say 1.2 seconds) to force only using 1 oGCD per gcd. You may also want to cut down on the precasted opener which contains double oGCDs.

IIRC the sim already mostly only uses 1 ogcd per - it does use the old jump delays so actually jump may be easier to use now (no longer clip GCDs).

So if there are multiple DRG in a party, is it more potency/damage to skip the CT combo altogether (if the others are keeping up the Disembowel buff)? The FT combo would do more damage than the CT DoT, right?

Do not quote me 100% and hopefully someone can either support or correct this statement of mine (I don't have my models with me), but yes, if you have another Dragoon in the party, then reverting back to a rotation similar to our old one, x1 IDC4 x2 TTT4 should be slightly more PPS.

here i was starting to think the only thing monk had going for them that dragoon didn't was that we had the option of getting someone else to use dragon kick to increase our dps... now it seems DRG has that option to, go figure.

Aye, but the gain is nowhere near the one you get from two Monks with a dedicated Dragon Kicker; it's not worth stacking multiple melee of any kind at this point, imo.

Aye, i'd much rather have a ninja for trick attack rather than a second dragoon. The only difference now is that having more than one DRG isnt as redundant as before.

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Originally Posted by Maconi

So if there are multiple DRG in a party, is it more potency/damage to skip the CT combo altogether (if the others are keeping up the Disembowel buff)? The FT combo would do more damage than the CT DoT, right?

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Well, the TTT combo has a total potency of 150 + 200 + 360 = 710, while the IDC combo has a potency of 180 + 220 + 250 + 35 per dot tick (I think it's 10 dot ticks total, for 350 potency, but not sure). According to those numbers, as long as you get two ticks of the dot, the IDC combo is more damage, so you'll still want to keep up the CT dot, even with another dragoon in the party.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

You can download the sim and find out! =D

Simply set the "blank" oGCD timer check to be very high (say 1.2 seconds) to force only using 1 oGCD per gcd. You may also want to cut down on the precasted opener which contains double oGCDs.

IIRC the sim already mostly only uses 1 ogcd per - it does use the old jump delays so actually jump may be easier to use now (no longer clip GCDs).

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Got a link to the sim? Can't seem to find it anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Do not quote me 100% and hopefully someone can either support or correct this statement of mine (I don't have my models with me), but yes, if you have another Dragoon in the party, then reverting back to a rotation similar to our old one, x1 IDC4 x2 TTT4 should be slightly more PPS.

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Originally Posted by Neyka

Got a link to the sim? Can't seem to find it anywhere.

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Ahh, so what you're both saying is that we'd still want to maintain the CT DoT, but since it's a longer duration than Disembowel we could fit in another FT combo (like the old rotation) rather than alternating CT/FT (which is the new rotation, assuming no other Dragoons)?

Thanks for the info. :cool:

Why do you need a monk for dragonkick anymore, when you can just have a darkknight now do it with Delirium?

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

Why do you need a monk for dragonkick anymore, when you can just have a darkknight now do it with Delirium?

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what anime is your signature from? I keep seeing it as I browse the forums now I'm curious lol

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

Why do you need a monk for dragonkick anymore, when you can just have a darkknight now do it with Delirium?

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Delirium is only INT Down. Doesn't bring Blunt down as well.

DRK's Delirium is actually pointless if there is a monk.

hi, my ilvl is 180 and i checked my dps is 1623 for 2 continuous cycles of rotation without using potions and ir(cuz i don't have it), is it normal or is it relatively low? cuz i have heard that some people are doing 2500

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Originally Posted by KefL0

hi, my ilvl is 180 and i checked my dps is 1623 for 2 continuous cycles of rotation without using potions and ir(cuz i don't have it), is it normal or is it relatively low? cuz i have heard that some people are doing 2500

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Hmm, no offense intended, but don't you think you should get IR and then compare? Everyone you compare to is going to have IR. It only takes about 20 minutes or so, even if you're leveling a fresh Pugilist.

I have a slight gear dilemma. I have 4 pieces of Alex gear now (Ring, Boots, Belt, and Gloves after tonight's maintenance) My SS is going to no way be near 590 with any food, so what should my rotation look like now with less SS? Or should I wait until I get more Alex with SS? Without gloves and belt (180 Law ones on instead) and roast canard I'm at 592 or so.

Alex savage will more and likely be party finder for me as I don't have a static so waiting for gear isn't too big a problem. Thanks. :)

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Originally Posted by PhalanxField

Delirium is only INT Down. Doesn't bring Blunt down as well.

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If you dont have a monk, you wont need blunt down.

...well i guess ifrit egi likes it.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

If you dont have a monk, you wont need blunt down.

...well i guess ifrit egi likes it.

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ifrit deals magic damage now, that was changed in the massive pet overhaul that was 3.0

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Originally Posted by Zamii

ifrit deals magic damage now, that was changed in the massive pet overhaul that was 3.0

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What about BLM autoattacks? :V

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

What about BLM autoattacks? :V

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SMN book smacks and BLM rod smacks are blunt.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

SMN book smacks and BLM rod smacks are blunt.

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But they scale off STR, which means the damage has not increased since level 1. Which means previously while they were perhaps a 5% dps increase on a short fight with massive Ruin II spam they are now not even close to 1% of your total damage, and probably can be abandoned entirely.

I still smack for 89 damage while my festers are 2.5k.

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Originally Posted by Startropic

I have a slight gear dilemma. I have 4 pieces of Alex gear now (Ring, Boots, Belt, and Gloves after tonight's maintenance) My SS is going to no way be near 590 with any food, so what should my rotation look like now with less SS? Or should I wait until I get more Alex with SS? Without gloves and belt (180 Law ones on instead) and roast canard I'm at 592 or so.

Alex savage will more and likely be party finder for me as I don't have a static so waiting for gear isn't too big a problem. Thanks. :)

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Prototype Gordian Wristband of Slaying should be your priority because of the +36 Skill Speed on it. I just checked the stats on Prototype Gordian Breeches of Maiming and probably they're going to be useful until you get the body.

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Originally Posted by KefL0

hi, my ilvl is 180 and i checked my dps is 1623 for 2 continuous cycles of rotation without using potions and ir(cuz i don't have it), is it normal or is it relatively low? cuz i have heard that some people are doing 2500

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Don't use you DRG again until you get Internal Release.

should put in the rotation of shame for dragoons in as well.

for me the rotation of shame at the moment seems to be

HT->IDC->Phleb->TTT->TTT repeat

"Rotation of Shame". I like it...

Aaand thank you. You reminded me that I forgot to add something onto the OP before I flew. But yeah, that is the mathematically superior rotation if you don't have BOTD.