If you're unhappy with this game then unsub... forever.

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Originally Posted by Myrany

I played WoW for more than a decade. I should have quit in WoD when I really saw how the game was going. I hung on until mid BFA when I sort of woke up to the fact that the game hadn't been fun for me Since Pandaria. Found this game and never looked back. There were good things about WoW. For me I am just done with WoW.

Strangely the token kept me in that game for nearly a year past when I thought it was worth spending money on since I was able to blow through my gold that I had earned over the years and pay my sub that way. Yeah I do agree the token was bad for the games economy though.

Although I am still very much enjoying my time FFXIV I completely agree that the only way the company is going to care about what you all want is to hit them in the pocket book. I won't be joining those of you who choose to unsub. No reason for me to as there is still a great deal of stuff I want to get done in FFXIV.

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Yeah at this point the only way they will deviate from this current formula is if they lose a massive amount of players and be forced to try new gameplay systems. I still enjoy the game enough to stay but i can also see that the formula we had for 10 years is stale and would hate to see them use the same formula for the next 10 years and it being the cause of people leaving.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

Yeah at this point the only way they will deviate from this current formula is if they lose a massive amount of players and be forced to try new gameplay systems. I still enjoy the game enough to stay but i can also see that the formula we had for 10 years is stale and would hate to see them use the same formula for the next 10 years and it being the cause of people leaving.

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The mindset of players as a whole needs to change. We need to stop accepting bland slop of videogame products and be quicker to punish devs who don't listen. Videogame devs keep serving said slop on the spoon because we've shown them that they can and our response is simply 'please sir, may I have some more?'

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

The mindset of players as a whole needs to change. We need to stop accepting bland slop of videogame products and be quicker to punish devs who don't listen. Videogame devs keep serving said slop on the spoon because we've shown them that they can and our response is simply 'please sir, may I have some more?'

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People say blizzard doesn't listen to there players but there is a lot of times it seems ff14 devs doesn't listen either. There are some systems that aren't great in ff14 that they double down on that people don't like and the features people do like there surprised people like it which shows they don't read/look at feedback or player retention for certain things.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

People say blizzard doesn't listen to there players but there is a lot of times it seems ff14 devs doesn't listen either. There are some systems that aren't great in ff14 that they double down on that people don't like and the features people do like there surprised people like it which shows they don't read/look at feedback or player retention for certain things.

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Something a lot of businesses in general are guilty of is ignoring customer feedback if it contradicts what they think they see in their data metrics spreadsheets.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

The mindset of players as a whole needs to change. We need to stop accepting bland slop of videogame products and be quicker to punish devs who don't listen. Videogame devs keep serving said slop on the spoon because we've shown them that they can and our response is simply 'please sir, may I have some more?'

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What's bland to you might be just what someone else is looking for.

Players need to pay for what they want to be playing instead of paying for what they don't want but think will change. There's no need for a company to change a game if its revenue is meeting/exceeding goals set.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

People say blizzard doesn't listen to there players but there is a lot of times it seems ff14 devs doesn't listen either. There are some systems that aren't great in ff14 that they double down on that people don't like and the features people do like there surprised people like it which shows they don't read/look at feedback or player retention for certain things.

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Our problem as EN players is we don't know what feedback the JP players are giving. Certainly some agree with EN players but there may be a larger number that disagree.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Something a lot of businesses in general are guilty of is ignoring customer feedback if it contradicts what they think they see in their data metrics spreadsheets.

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A lot of people will say one thing while doing another. That why they tend to rely on metrics. What people are actually doing affects a company's bottom line a lot more than what they're only saying.

They're not going to listen to feedback unless their metrics show their customers are behaving in ways they did not expect.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

A lot of people will say one thing while doing another. That why they tend to rely on metrics. What people are actually doing affects a company's bottom line a lot more than what they're only saying.

They're not going to listen to feedback unless their metrics show their customers are behaving in ways they did not expect.

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The actual problem is they often don't look into it any further than seeing the numbers on the spreadsheet. So they essentially have no actual context of what the numbers actually mean or what lead those numbers to actually be generated. They just go through it to make sure the boxes they want bigger numbers in show bigger numbers and the boxes they want smaller numbers in show smaller numbers. Any outliers to what they want will simply result on looking for a scapegoat or excuse.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

The actual problem is they often don't look into it any further than seeing the numbers on the spreadsheet. So they essentially have no actual context of what the numbers actually mean or what lead those numbers to actually be generated. They just go through it to make sure the boxes they want bigger numbers in show bigger numbers and the boxes they want smaller numbers in show smaller numbers. Any outliers to what they want will simply result on looking for a scapegoat or excuse.

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You might be thinking of it too simply. They're going to look at past trends at similar points in a development cycle. Some deviation is expected of course but only in small amounts.

If normally they would have 30% of the player base participating in Savage raiding during a certain patch cycle but that number has dropped to 10%, they're going to want to know why that content has lost 2/3s of its normal participants. That's when they're going to start checking feedback. If it's only dropped from 30% to 27%, then they they don't have much reason to care.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You might be thinking of it too simply. They're going to look at past trends at similar points in a development cycle. Some deviation is expected of course but only in small amounts.

If normally they would have 30% of the player base participating in Savage raiding during a certain patch cycle but that number has dropped to 10%, they're going to want to know why that content has lost 2/3s of its normal participants. That's when they're going to start checking feedback. If it's only dropped from 30% to 27%, then they they don't have much reason to care.

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I have always suspected with most games it is a combination of what you are saying and the following.

What demographic of player makes us the most money?
<checks data>
Ok how many players can we expect to lose if we make x change to cater to that demographic?
<checks historical data>
Do we have enough new players coming in to cover the loss?
<checks data>

here it can slide into What will sell well in the store to make up the loss or even increase revenue?
<checks data>


In short if changes are not happening there is not enough lost revenue to justify them.

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Originally Posted by Myrany

I have always suspected with most games it is a combination of what you are saying and the following.

What demographic of player makes us the most money?
<checks data>
Ok how many players can we expect to lose if we make x change to cater to that demographic?
<checks historical data>
Do we have enough new players coming in to cover the loss?
<checks data>

here it can slide into What will sell well in the store to make up the loss or even increase revenue?
<checks data>


In short if changes are not happening there is not enough lost revenue to justify them.

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I suspect along with the satisical data, creative ideas are then added. It can not be anyone thing with games that drive the process. I am sure many games have been ruined by just one set of data points being listened to (wildstar) for one. This thread kinda goes along with another topic on this forum. The harder content topic. There has to be a balance of the pendulum swings to far in anyone direction it will lose subs. But and there is a but, if the loss of subs in anyone direction isn't that great and can be made up expect the path of least cost to be taken. It's a business after all.

I just wanted to add I remember during the pandemic when cbu3 was in lock down something along the lines of they have 2 years worth of content already done waiting to be implemented, please don't quote me on it but it was something along the lines of the content is made just waiting for all the teams to finalize it. I could be totally mis remembering.

https://i.ibb.co/QPSCBVF/scrubs-forever.gif