Zodiark's Codex entry what do we think about it?

I don't think we've been given an update on that @Lurina or at least I haven't seen anything from the interviews and other Live Letters we have seen since that question was asked. If there has been something from Oda or from one of the other writers more familiar with the lore about such topic then I would love to see it.

If there's no update, then by default all we can do is assume that statement stands.

I think overall, however, it's at the point where everyone has to confront and accept that the devs are never, ever going to actually and truly clarify the nature of the "new lives." Both because, once again, they do not actually matter in terms of Venat's decision-making, the reason events played out as they did - and therefore discussing them is a materially fruitless thought exercise about how you perceive the Ancients. The other reason they will never be clarified clearly is because the devs' first and foremost priority is to keep all characters involved lovable.

So I honestly do not see the point in continuing to try to make something of the subject, beyond it being yet another hole in the writing. Which it sure is.

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Originally Posted by Lurina

Jesus Christ.

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Just report him, he is not somebody we need in this thread when all of his posts can just come across as brash and insulting. Such an individual should not be here in the Lore subforums, where we at least TRY to have decorum.

It's not a matter of decorum, it's a matter of making it clear that even if I don't agree with Cleretic on literally anything, she doesn't deserve having that kind of language and vitriol directed at her.

Yeah. It's absolutely ridiculous how bad the moderation here is for an official forum. Like, just-pull-the-plug levels.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Just report him, he is not somebody we need in this thread when all of his posts can just come across as brash and insulting. Such an individual should not be here in the Lore subforums, where we at least TRY to have decorum.

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Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

It's not a matter of decorum, it's a matter of making it clear that even if I don't agree with Cleretic on literally anything, she doesn't deserve having that kind of language and vitriol directed at her.

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Would it be within reason to assume that what is being implied here is that the decorum in question is more present when put into comparison with, say.... General Discussion?

Anyway, I'm sorry this topic has devolved into such pure, inexcusable Pandaemonium. I'd offer.... well. I don't even know, even if I had something. I just hope the situation improves. It's rather absurd to make presumptions as to what any given person deserves, though. Air your grievances if you must, but it's never wrong to remain cordial about it.

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Originally Posted by TowaIsBestGirl

Would it be within reason to assume that what is being implied here is that the decorum in question is more present when put into comparison with, say.... General Discussion?

Anyway, I'm sorry this topic has devolved into such pure, inexcusable Pandaemonium. I'd offer.... well. I don't even know, even if I had something. I just hope the situation improves. It's rather absurd to make presumptions as to what any given person deserves, though. Air your grievances if you must, but it's never wrong to remain cordial about it.

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Hey, actually Pandaemonium is quite cool, well the first two tiers of it at least.

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Originally Posted by Roselin

The Sundering undeniably destroyed them as a national group, and Venat knew this would be the result and intended it because, as said by Yoshida in an interview, she thought her people's culture was leading them down a path of stagnation, to the same fate as the Nibirun. The intent was clearly to purge the culture in question from existence since it was the culture she had a problem with.

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Thank you for your earlier reply. The issue that I take with a lot of these arguments is that you cannot simply 'fill in' what you feel might have happened and assign blame based off of a guess. There are large historical gaps that we know next to nothing about. Did Amaurot truly 'disappear' overnight? Or did people gradually drift away over thousands of years? The only comparison points that we have are spaced twelve thousand years apart.

The reconstructed 'memory' of Amaurot at the Macarenses Angle represents a time before Zodiark's summoning. Was the place even intact by the time Zodiark was summoned? Did it survive the battle between Zodiark and Hydaelyn? It seems to me that if Amaurot itself was even partially standing, it should be serviceable as a place of shelter. If Emet was present in the midst of this, you'd surely think that he might of lead a push for people to settle there and attempt to rebuild and restore Amaurot to what it was. Did he succeed, for a time? There's no way of knowing without more information. I expect that most human nations would not remain culturally unchanged across twelve thousand years, even if he did.

This story leaves me with more questions than answers, and I'm always surprised at how sure everyone seems to be of themselves. 'Doubt' is good.

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Originally Posted by Lurina

A "Rejoining" is a make-believe magical process where people from different realities are fused together. The souls are combined and one set of memories disappears, but nothing is actually lost. It's just two people becoming one person, where one lives on in the other, like the WoL and Ardbert.

No one "dies".

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This is inaccurate. The catalyst for the rejoinings were a widespread loss of life on both the Source and the associated world, prior to their souls migrating en masse. These include events like Elidibus' Black Rose, or the Flood. Y'shtola points out to Emet in the Crystarium that in order to bring about his Rejoinings, he has directly murdered millions of people.

I don't think that there would be an objection to 'restoring Amaurot' if there was a way to do it without disrupting everyone else's lives. But the Sundering in effect has given rise to 14 times the number of people that we had previously. There's not really a way to 'undo' that, as the reverse of that process is going invariably going to involve killing them. That's the crux of the problem.

Wow that guy actually got canned, I had such low faith that I expected nothing to come about that.

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Originally Posted by Lurina

God.

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I will admit that I am more of a lore forum drifter where I like reading this place and rarely really joining in the discussions, but I don't know if you reacted like this because of general frustration already at the time or like ... it is weird for me to be still upset over their plan to wholesale kill the entire new natural world?

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Thank you for your earlier reply. The issue that I take with a lot of these arguments is that you cannot simply 'fill in' what you feel might have happened and assign blame based off of a guess. There are large historical gaps that we know next to nothing about. Did Amaurot truly 'disappear' overnight? Or did people gradually drift away over thousands of years? The only comparison points that we have are spaced twelve thousand years apart.

The reconstructed 'memory' of Amaurot at the Macarenses Angle represents a time before Zodiark's summoning. Was the place even intact by the time Zodiark was summoned? Did it survive the battle between Zodiark and Hydaelyn? It seems to me that if Amaurot itself was even partially standing, it should be serviceable as a place of shelter. If Emet was present in the midst of this, you'd surely think that he might of lead a push for people to settle there and attempt to rebuild and restore Amaurot to what it was. Did he succeed, for a time? There's no way of knowing without more information. I expect that most human nations would not remain culturally unchanged across twelve thousand years, even if he did.

This story leaves me with more questions than answers, and I'm always surprised at how sure everyone seems to be of themselves. 'Doubt' is good.

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I know that the story can sometimes be a bit fuzzy and vague, but honestly every answer Ishikawa and Oda have given on the Sundering indicates to me that it was an immediate destruction of the world and it's inhabitants.
After all, I don't think Emet said "That Light split the world, and every life upon it!" because culture just naturally developed and changed over time, and I also don't think Ishikawa wrote "Language, culture, knowledge - forgotten" directly after the Sundering scene to indicate "yeah they just sort of naturally changed over time, no big deal".

(Also the rhetoric and denialism I talked about legit bothers me, someone disagreeing with me on lore and thinking I'm silly and wrong on the lore doesn't bother me at all, so please don't think I'm using my experiences to try to guilt people into agreeing with me on lore. I really am fine with just disagreements on the story, I am very much not fine with the unironic usage of dehumanizing rhetoric, or attempts at downplaying the severity of cultural erasure. I hope you can understand).

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Originally Posted by Ayche

I will admit that I am more of a lore forum drifter where I like reading this place and rarely really joining in the discussions, but I don't know if you reacted like this because of general frustration already at the time or like ... it is weird for me to be still upset over their plan to wholesale kill the entire new natural world?

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I know I'm not the person you responded to here, but since your previous post was a response to mine I hope you wont mind.
The thing I personally would object to here was the rhetoric in your post there, not the whole "being upset about the plan to wholesale kill the entire new natural world" part. I am not one who will defend the actions of the Ascians anyway.

But yes the real problem I have with your rhetoric is that it essentially boils down to "they brought their destruction on themselves by being evil savages", which is an excuse that gets lobbed against me and my people in real life all the time to justify our destruction, the attempt to find some sort of moral deficiency with which to excuse the deliberate wholesale destruction of a national group.