The Healers should be reworked? New player perspective.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I told you even then, I don't have a dog. I don't say that to dogs, either - another thing I told you at the time.

So no, I didn't "call (you) a dog". You're just trying to use that as a shield so you don't have to apologize to being wrong AND being a jerk about being wrong.

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Ah! How silly of me. That makes it all better then. In that case...

Ren! You're grounded for a month with no video games! I want you to go up to your room and think about what you've said!

It's okay. I don't have children and I wouldn't speak to a child that way so I'm not treating you like a child.

...............all I can think about is, "wth is a Sylphie?" Even went through urban dictionary and other sites to see if any gamers made a definition of that because it's out of place...

Other than that....kinda given up on the 1 button spam. Really don't care about that, just improving other tools and traits to make healers not as stressful. The DPS comes 2nd cause it's not that important to me playing SCH.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Want to know what's petty? Oh, that's easy - Why is it important to you? Oh RIGHT: So that people who don't do it will forever be INFERIOR TO YOU.

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... That's called an inferiority complex. As a casual player, I would not be complaining I can't play at the skill level of Ultimate level players and clear Ultimates. I don't need to be a perfect parse BLM or be a god healer to have fun in content that is not designed for me to handle that level of skill without drastically improving. Nor would I feel like I'm inferior to players that have cleared Ultimates and gained a shiny Ultimate weapon. I'd just admire their weapon and move on. Now if I was worried I'd be inferior to another person in a game even when the game remains as accessible as ever for healers, then I have bigger issues to worry about, and simply changing that aspect in the game doesn't solve that problem.

Also Ren... people here can read between the lines. Don't take this the wrong way, but you're sort of making it very obvious why you want no skill ceiling the moment you shot down the auto-combo suggestion having room for optimization. Your argument is no longer "auto combat can bring you close to good / ideal level of skill for those who can't keep up," it's "you can't get perfect performance with it without trying to improve and thus will always be inferior."

Your comments about Black Mage makes sense now since Black Mage is all about optimization.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Hey I want to make it very clear, VERY clear: I made my 'glarespam' calculations work out to be not just 'available', but 98ish % of the efficiency of 'utilizing the kit in the pitch to it's fullest'. I've bent so far backwards in trying to accommodate my designs to 'the casuals' that I should be in the Olympics. And it's STILL not enough, I 'refuse to compromise', apparently.

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Doing better than me. I would slap a BLM rotation on WHM since someone else brought that up and I think that would be interesting if gods awful to balance and heal with.

That said, I do wish WHM kept the longer cast time and it had other abilities to play around with it akin to BLM. Its not my preferred playstyle at ALL (I like AST's mobility tyvm) but I do like the idea of having a healer with a similar cast style to BLM. Maybe not as long of a cast time, but long enough where slide casting is more prevailent and integral to one's skill ceiling. I miss that a lot. Its still here in FFXIV but not enough imo.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

...............all I can think about is, "wth is a Sylphie?" Even went through urban dictionary and other sites to see if any gamers made a definition of that because it's out of place...

Other than that....kinda given up on the 1 button spam. Really don't care about that, just improving other tools and traits to make healers not as stressful. The DPS comes 2nd cause it's not that important to me playing SCH.

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It's a term that's been used specifically on the healer forums since roughly Heavensward to reference a player who refuses to even try to DPS or learn how to as a healer, referencing the NPC named "Sylphie" at the beginning of the Conjuror questline who only wants to heal and doesn't believe she needs to rely on the elements of earth, wind, and water, much to the endangerment of herself and those around her. Only the character actually grows beyond that point and recognizes that her attack spells are just as much a part of her duty as a Conjuror as her healing.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

Doing better than me. I would slap a BLM rotation on WHM since someone else brought that up and I think that would be interesting if gods awful to balance and heal with.

That said, I do wish WHM kept the longer cast time and it had other abilities to play around with it akin to BLM. Its not my preferred playstyle at ALL (I like AST's mobility tyvm) but I do like the idea of having a healer with a similar cast style to BLM. Maybe not as long of a cast time, but long enough where slide casting is more prevailent and integral to one's skill ceiling. I miss that a lot. Its still here in FFXIV but not enough imo.

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I can see why some might want a 'turret style healer', can I instead float the idea that SGE be that potentially, given that it's got 'Aetherial Manipulation' of sorts with Icarus (albeit, way longer CD)? It'd also have a much larger focus on AlwaysBeCasting mentality given that it's healing could potentially be tied to it's damage a lot more strongly (most ideas posted here double down on the damage>healing conversion paradigm pretty heavily)

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

It's a term that's been used specifically on the healer forums since roughly Heavensward to reference a player who refuses to even try to DPS or learn how to as a healer, referencing the NPC named "Sylphie" at the beginning of the Conjuror questline who only wants to heal and doesn't believe she needs to rely on the elements of earth, wind, and water, much to the endangerment of herself and those around her. Only the character actually grows beyond that point and recognizes that her attack spells are just as much a part of her duty as a Conjuror as her healing.

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As much as it pains me to say this, not quite. The questline is about how she refuses to draw aether from nature, instead burning up her own life in a sense to fuel her healing. The questline does not have anything to do with whether she does damage or not.

What is relevant however, is that she thinks she knows what she is doing and completely throws out the wisdom of 'someone who's been doing this for far longer and knows way more about how it should be done', and having a temper tantrum whenever anyone offers her constructive criticism, which I think is the real message of the questline that we should be focusing on

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

I can see why some might want a 'turret style healer', can I instead float the idea that SGE be that potentially, given that it's got 'Aetherial Manipulation' of sorts with Icarus (albeit, way longer CD)? It'd also have a much larger focus on AlwaysBeCasting mentality given that it's healing could potentially be tied to it's damage a lot more strongly (most ideas posted here double down on the damage>healing conversion paradigm pretty heavily)

As much as it pains me to say this, not quite. The questline is about how she refuses to draw aether from nature, instead burning up her own life in a sense to fuel her healing. The questline does not have anything to do with whether she does damage or not.

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It would make sense for WHM as it's the foil to BLM, and there are things it has even now that in some way mirror some of BLM's tools. Presence of Mind is a less strict Ley Lines for example, and Thin Air is a bit like Manafont in a sense. Something that could've been interesting from the get-go would've been to have Water be a weaker DPS spell than Stone, but applies an MP refresh to the caster, which would've been your main source of MP management as it wouldn't have a cooldown and thus you'd want to balance using it sparingly, but enough to keep your MP healthy. This would've allowed Stone, Aero, and Water to foil Fire, Thunder, and Blizzard. Stone and Fire are your main sources of damage, Aero and Thunder are your DoTs, and Water and Blizzard are about MP management.

And yeah, that's more accurate. Although the Guild Leader does actually mention how conjury is not just about healing, but also about war.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

It's a term that's been used specifically on the healer forums since roughly Heavensward to reference a player who refuses to even try to DPS or learn how to as a healer, referencing the NPC named "Sylphie" at the beginning of the Conjuror questline who only wants to heal and doesn't believe she needs to rely on the elements of earth, wind, and water, much to the endangerment of herself and those around her. Only the character actually grows beyond that point and recognizes that her attack spells are just as much a part of her duty as a Conjuror as her healing.

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Oooooh, I see, thanks. I never noticed that because I completely ignored the CNJ questline for years.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

Oooooh, I see, thanks. I never noticed that because I completely ignored the CNJ questline for years.

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Note that Roe's explanation is better than mine. Messages are popping up really quickly atm, so not sure if you caught that.

It's been a long while since I did do the Sylphie quest line, but I think I might remember other skits. I will place it in a hidden tag just in case it's unwanted spoilers.

I think Sylphie probably thought she might be shackling nature if she drew from that source. She does begrudgingly start to listen when she learns the truth about what happened to her mother doing the same she did. She realized it was a genuine concern for her life from you and the guild master. She also learned that she did not shackle nature at all and felt happy with her new bond.