5.3 Preliminary Patch Note

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

Guildhests start with giving bad advice ("Have your non-tank pull!").

Also, out of curiosity, with all the comments on Coincounter's one-hit kill, what are people opinions on, say... Behemoth and Ancient Flare in LotA? You know, those one hit kill no marker things you have to watch the cast bars on?

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Well, deaths to Phlegethon are entertaining, though.

And Behemoth has a giant rock falling down as an indicator... (Though it'd be nice if we could actually crane the camera up enough to see it. :P)

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

Well, deaths to Phlegethon are entertaining, though.

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I swear my pugs wipe every third Phleg fight and the chat always explodes whenever it happens.

Then again I had a wipe to five-headed dragon not too long ago, and that was equally hilarious. You could just feel everyone's shame.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

There are some minotaur trash mobs that use similar attacks.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

Mollusk was right, it's a minotaur.

Second trash pack I believe?

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I've only played the Lv80 dungeons as WHM/RDM so perhaps I've just never had to dodge it, but it's never stood out to me as a particular threat and it's clearly not going to be doing the same degree of damage as a featured boss.

Smaller enemies in dungeon pulls just feel like hitting a pack of HP bars with vague shapes attached to them half the time, to be honest... Too much going on to get a good look at a lot of them and the chances of targeting any particular one to watch its attacks are slim. I certainly wouldn't like to be dodging a boss cyclops in the middle of a pack of enemies hiding its tells.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Most people aren't going to sit there analyzing a fight they're not participating in. It's a game; you play when it allows you to play. Even if you did spend that time attempting to analyze why you died, you won't get to put your analysis into practice. The group will kill the boss, move on, and who knows when you'll see another Cyclops boss with the same mechanics.

If an attack nearly kills me but I'm still on my feet then there's an opportunity and a reason to assess/adjust. If you just die immediately and don't even get to retry the fight there's virtually no point.

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Again, if that's what you do I feel sorry for your party but most of the people when reciving negative feedback try to stop it from happening, if you keep living you can't think about what happened especially if you're a newbie while when dead there is higher chance for them to observe or even write the typical "What killed me" message in the party chat which will lead them to learning.

Some people really underestimate the value of failure and in part is something that leads the community to be the way it is skill wise, a death teaches more than 10 wins and 20 vuln ups.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

Again, if that's what you do I feel sorry for your party but most of the people when reciving negative feedback try to stop it from happening, if you keep living you can't think about what happened especially if you're a newbie while when dead there is higher chance for them to observe or even write the typical "What killed me" message in the party chat which will lead them to learning.

Some people really underestimate the value of failure and in part is something that leads the community to be the way it is skill wise, a death teaches more than 10 wins and 20 vuln ups.

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The most important part of learning is the ability to adjust; take away the ability to put new knowledge into practice and new knowledge is far less likely to be retained. If we're REALLY running with the idea that Coincounter was some kind of crucial learning experience for new players, then it's a very poorly realized one.

Reality is that it's just a crap mechanic. Maybe when FATES were more popular it made a bit more sense, but as it stands right now it's just a cheesy bit of inept combat design that SE would rather not be displaying to the world. Let it disappear.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I've only played the Lv80 dungeons as WHM/RDM so perhaps I've just never had to dodge it, but it's never stood out to me as a particular threat and it's clearly not going to be doing the same degree of damage as a featured boss.

Smaller enemies in dungeon pulls just feel like hitting a pack of HP bars with vague shapes attached to them half the time, to be honest... Too much going on to get a good look at a lot of them and the chances of targeting any particular one to watch its attacks are slim. I certainly wouldn't like to be dodging a boss cyclops in the middle of a pack of enemies hiding its tells.

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As a WHM it's particularly lethal, since you're in range for Holy.

It killed me once because the tank and ranged didn't interrupt the attack.

It's less bad now because gear but at min ilvl it'll oneshot casters and healers at least, if not all non tanks.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Guides are required purely because it's a garbage mechanic. The mechanic is completely indiscernible without some form of outside help. SE shouldn't be leaning on Youtube guides because they don't know how to create mechanics that can be read during the actual fight.

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If you don't communicate with your party and you die to a mechanic you had no way of knowing, that is 100% all the time every day your fault. If you try to communicate and they ignore you and you die to a mechanic you had no way of knowing, then it's their fault.

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Originally Posted by EgilTheStressedMage

If you don't communicate with your party and you die to a mechanic you had no way of knowing, that is 100% all the time every day your fault. If you try to communicate and they ignore you and you die to a mechanic you had no way of knowing, then it's their fault.

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I'm not really concerned with who's fault it is when you die to a crap mechanic. It's still a crap mechanic that's probably embarrassing for SE from a design perspective, so it makes sense they'd want to fix it.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I'm not really concerned with who's fault it is when you die to a crap mechanic. It's still a crap mechanic that's probably embarrassing for SE from a design perspective, so it makes sense they'd want to fix it.

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You never did comment on the now required instant death mechanics that have no markers. Say what you want about AV, it's technically skippable. LotA/ST/WoD no longer are, and all of those have one-shot mechanics without markers.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

You never did comment on the now required instant death mechanics that have no markers. Say what you want about AV, it's technically skippable. LotA/ST/WoD no longer are, and all of those have one-shot mechanics without markers.

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I assume those are all alliance raids, which I'm not super familiar with. If they're 1 hit kills that offer absolutely no indication of what you're supposed to do to avoid dying, then I feel the same way about them.