White Mage vs Scholar - Why is White Mage lacking?

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Originally Posted by Menae

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Erm... not one of your point has any validity to. You also point out you are arguing for the sake of arguing. At least make effort to add something meaningful not bash WHM.

For some stupid reason healers are now dps class. Simply put if your group lacks dps it is not because there is a WHM in the party. It is because the dps suck. If you are also doing content where there are a lot of down time then you are either slacking and letting your co-healer work harder or you are overgeared for the content you are in.

I feel tired of all this nonsense ... whm are so useless ... whm can't dps ... sch are better...SS is better than everything ... Sch solo heal everything ...

So :
WHM shield is better you will need it in t13 if you are not overgeared.
WHM will give +10mind to your sch.
SCH get a better dps, it doesn't mean that whm can't dps. The gap between them isn't that huge.
Of course it can be huge in some fight like t12 where sch dps and whm solo heal.
Sch solo heal ... Whm does it too ...

Arguing this way the only things you will get is a whm up. Is that realy what you want? XD

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Originally Posted by Menae

I'm not disagreeing with your point, but your logic is bad. I could argue that instead of white mages being good, the reason top groups bring a white mage is because shields don't stack well, or because of the limit break penalty for having more than one of the same class or even that it's not optimal to bring a white Mage but the best groups are so skilled that they get away with it and everyone copies them.

I don't believe any of those things, mind you; I am just arguing for argument's sake. I would love a buff to white mage mp or accuracy so that I could actually dps in raid downtime without feeling like I'm risking things later in the fight for no purpose, but it's a minor complaint.

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lolno. Yare's point/logic is actually far more accurate than your post.

Arguing that WHM is better only because SCH shields don't stack is absolutely ludicrous. WHM protect is far superior to SCH. Even if the SCH shields were stackable, most high-end game mechanics would eat it in one fell swipe, hell even some of the EX primals would do that.

WHM does not need an MP buff. WHM can also already DPS in downtime in raids (Cleric stance >>insert your choice DPS spell here<<) WHM is not supposed to be a brain dead class to play, not that I am saying SCH is, even though to a point it can be in low level and mid game play, because of the pocket healer.

Benediction is poor. 80% of the time healing a dead target. Wasting Bene, a GCD and Cast time for next spell instead of recast.
Bene is poor.

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Originally Posted by Tarta

Benediction is poor. 80% of the time healing a dead target. Wasting Bene, a GCD and Cast time for next spell instead of recast.
Bene is poor.

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I won't argue with you there. Benediction is not the WHM's best skill, but is certainly not the worst either. But every player that knows WHM well enough, should know how to deal with the use of Benediction. It's more of an "oh shit" button or a CD for a WHM that does DPS and let the tank take too much damage. But that does not make WHM sub-par to SCH

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Originally Posted by Tarta

Benediction is poor. 80% of the time healing a dead target. Wasting Bene, a GCD and Cast time for next spell instead of recast.
Bene is poor.

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No.

If you find that it is healing a dead target 80% of the time that is your fault, and not the spell's. I have had only one instance that I can recall where Bene didn't work properly, and it wasn't due to the spell's function. It was because of my own stupidity. I wasn't paying attention and accidentally casted it on myself. If I had casted it on the tank everything would have been fine. Don't blame a spell just because you have the inability to use it properly. It's an oh shit spell. Learn to use it properly and it will serve you well.

And let's not forget that it can be used to full effect while in CS. If you are using Holy at the start of a pull and your tank takes massive damage for whatever reason, you can stay in CS and just cure with Bene when they get too low.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

And let's not forget that it can be used to full effect while in CS. If you are using Holy at the start of a pull and your tank takes massive damage for whatever reason, you can stay in CS and just cure with Bene when they get too low.

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This is by far my most favorite thing to do in dungeons.

Regen > Cleric Stance > Wait a bit > PoM > Holy > Holy > Holy > Holy .... > Benediction > Holy > Holy > Holy > Holy.

If everything's not dead by then, then I would consider my group's dps pretty uhh...terrible.

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Originally Posted by Sumimi

This is by far my most favorite thing to do in dungeons.

Regen > Cleric Stance > Wait a bit > PoM > Holy > Holy > Holy > Holy .... > Benediction > Holy > Holy > Holy > Holy.

If everything's not dead by then, then I would consider my group's dps pretty uhh...terrible.

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Exactly. Sometimes I fall into a Holy Spam pattern to mix things up. It's hell on MP but it's better than the whole constantly stance dancing. I don't mind stance dancing but sometimes I want to be lazy too!

Honestly the only thing that I think whm need to be on par with Scholar is the following:
1.) Benediction: Make the effect activate before the animation.
2.) Shroud of Saints: Lower Recast to 1 Minute. (An alternative would be to increase the duration/potency of the effect)

That doesn't mean that White Mage is weaker than Scholar just less efficient at MP management.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

Honestly the only thing that I think whm need to be on par with Scholar is the following:
1.) Benediction: Make the effect activate before the animation.
2.) Shroud of Saints: Lower Recast to 1 Minute. (An alternative would be to increase the duration/potency of the effect)

That doesn't mean that White Mage is weaker than Scholar just less efficient at MP management.

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I don't really understand why everyone thinks WHMs need more MP stuff. The only issues I've run into with MP issues is either with Holy Spam, Rezz spam, or death.

And Bene doesn't really need to be changed. I don't find the "lag" on it to be an issue at all. It's not that hard to figure out, and it's easier to just ignore the animation all together. Or see it as a very, very short cast time.