Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Maybe but it feels to me that calling them Ronso in the first was a bit more of a after thought
Since only one can really have a horn you think all 4 could have that option

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Originally Posted by zeylos

The ronso were big and all, but much more athletic and thin

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Based on doesn't mean copy+paste.
Viera is a Viera while Hrothgar is based on Ronso.
I'm sure they were based on Ronso to stay within the Final Fantasy franchise for both races.

But without concrete facts, everything is just personal speculations.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Based on doesn't mean copy+paste.
Viera is a Viera while Hrothgar is based on Ronso.
I'm sure they were based on Ronso to stay within the Final Fantasy franchise for both races.

But without concrete facts, everything is just personal speculations.

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Ofc they arent the same, I was just stating that I think that its likely that male hrotgar are so bulky cus most of male hrotgar players ara bara furry fans and male roes, and if they were designed to be more like ronso, they'd be more towards higlander than anything

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Originally Posted by Alleo

But if he means no, why not say no? He is quite able to do that with other stuff so why not here? Why give different opinions in different interviews?

It might be in japanese culture to not say outright no (but again he did that with other topics) but he is not just dealing with a JP audience. As long as a comment is in anyway not fully clear and can be read differently then its onto the one that did the statement to correct themselves. Otherwise people should be allowed to take their view on it. In the end he stated different things on different sites and interviews. Seemingly if everything is clear and we wont ever get them, then its kinda misleading to talk about it like that, right?

(Also since hearing that the JP players do have black lists outside the game which will make it bad for anyone ever getting there and that Yoshida keeps his life privat to shield his family from some fans..I really cringe a bit at those wanting to put the JP side on a pedestal. They have their own bad side too)

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I can easily answer this for you in at least the why certain things are a clear No. Anything involving children in the Western Worlds is always a no. You never skirt the subject, you never leave that option open ever. It's a strong taboo, illegal, immoral etc. So "Youthful" "Young Looking" "Child Like" will always be responded to such a way with good reason.

The rest he has always left open though, not to flat out denying since there's always a chance it can happen or things could change. Most times there isn't a change, but it helps in a sense keep people interesting, a simple and effective tactic used in gaming in general.

But one should not claim rumors and opinions as fact, when they are not yet. That's my only stance. People putting their wishes and opinions as a factual base is a bad thing, everywhere in the world. It's just sad Zeylos is the one instigating and perpetuating it the most thinking his opinion as fact, when they shouldn't. "Taking 1.5 years for new races so others should be easier" Forgetting that their focus right now is progressing content through Shadowbringer first and foremost. Claiming Japanese want this and that, when I am Japanese and he doesn't speak for me, nor my friends and surely not the populace あほ

I mean seriously, saying Hrothgar are played since people wanted tough furry gay men?

This is the stuff I am against, fallacies and ignorance. I want facts, sources, and truth. Not that hard. Not people pushing what they want, or think, or wish as being true when it's far from it, to then say, well he didn't say a firm no so it will happen! That logic makes no sense to me. Alas, I'm the bad person, even though would love Male Viera, because I don't conform to others pushing their personal agendas that have no basis on male viera being put into the game.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

I can easily answer this for you in at least the why certain things are a clear No. Anything involving children in the Western Worlds is always a no. You never skirt the subject, you never leave that option open ever. It's a strong taboo, illegal, immoral etc. So "Youthful" "Young Looking" "Child Like" will always be responded to such a way with good reason.

The rest he has always left open though, not to flat out denying since there's always a chance it can happen or things could change. Most times there isn't a change, but it helps in a sense keep people interesting, a simple and effective tactic used in gaming in general.

But one should not claim rumors and opinions as fact, when they are not yet. That's my only stance. People putting their wishes and opinions as a factual base is a bad thing, everywhere in the world. It's just sad Zeylos is the one instigating and perpetuating it the most thinking his opinion as fact, when they shouldn't. "Taking 1.5 years for new races so others should be easier" Forgetting that their focus right now is progressing content through Shadowbringer first and foremost. Claiming Japanese want this and that, when I am Japanese and he doesn't speak for me, nor my friends and surely not the populace あほ

I mean seriously, saying Hrothgar are played since people wanted tough furry gay men?

This is the stuff I am against, fallacies and ignorance. I want facts, sources, and truth. Not that hard. Not people pushing what they want, or think, or wish as being true when it's far from it, to then say, well he didn't say a firm no so it will happen! That logic makes no sense to me. Alas, I'm the bad person, even though would love Male Viera, because I don't conform to others pushing their personal agendas that have no basis on male viera being put into the game.

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Why do u even take everything like that? Saying male hrotgar are mostly played by gay furries, isnt only true, but is fine. And even if it wasnt true, just dont take it seriously since its obviously an exaggeration. I think everybody should take things with a pinch of salt. Plus, I think that everyone when gviing their opinion states that its what they think, so I dont see a single issue with it

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Why do u even take everything like that? Saying male hrotgar are mostly played by gay furries, isnt only true, but is fine. And even if it wasnt true, just dont take it seriously since its obviously an exaggeration. I think everybody should take things with a pinch of salt. Plus, I think that everyone when gviing their opinion states that its what they think, so I dont see a single issue with it

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Point proven, pushing an agenda that has no basis for the role.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

Point proven, pushing an agenda that has no basis for the role.

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My agenda is saying u should take things with a grain of salt and that male hrotgar, which is furry bara men, appeals to the furry bara men ppl. Interesting agenda for sure

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Originally Posted by zeylos

My agenda is saying u should take things with a grain of salt and that male hrotgar, which is furry bara men, appeals to the furry bara men ppl. Interesting agenda for sure

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So you're saying this...

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Ofc they arent the same, I was just stating that I think that its likely that male hrotgar are so bulky cus most of male hrotgar players ara bara furry fans and male roes, and if they were designed to be more like ronso, they'd be more towards higlander than anything

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Don't backpeddle now... My friend isn't gay, nor into furries, and the only thing he is disappointed about is the hair limits on the race. Either your use of the english language is worse then mine to try and change the meaning of what you already have posted, or your pushing the same agenda again and again. Not everything has to be gay... You may want it, but doesn't make it so I am afraid. And you're honestly not worth my posting limits anymore.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

So you're saying this...


Don't backpeddle now... My friend isn't gay, nor into furries, and the only thing he is disappointed about is the hair limits on the race. Either your use of the english language is worse then mine to try and change the meaning of what you already have posted, or your pushing the same agenda again and again. Not everything has to be gay... You may want it, but doesn't make it so I am afraid. And you're honestly not worth my posting limits anymore.

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Most dosent equate to all. When did I say everything is gay xDDDD? Seriously, Im confuse as to what u guys take from my statements

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Originally Posted by Mochamonarch

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130406214928

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We should get a new fighting reason. Churo, I mission you to find one!

This is getting good.

https://i.gifer.com/origin/96/962aaf...58c93_w200.gif

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Based on doesn't mean copy+paste.
Viera is a Viera while Hrothgar is based on Ronso.
I'm sure they were based on Ronso to stay within the Final Fantasy franchise for both races.

But without concrete facts, everything is just personal speculations.

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i understand inspiration and carbon copy are different but since viera is the alternative for now you think they would have put a bit more emphasis into them ronso

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

This is getting good.

https://i.gifer.com/origin/96/962aaf...58c93_w200.gif

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https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130406214928

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

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Having me pinch the bridge of my nose. Yes, your friend isn't gay and that's fine. But there's also denying that there are plenty of folks who are gay, bara and into the furry fandom. It's not a bad thing. It's a genuine observation. I will state that there's probably a good portion of individuals who are playing that race because it ticks off those specific reasons. It fits their aesthetic or 'sexuality' etc. Again, nothing wrong like that. It's the same as men hiding on female Miqote/Viera/Au'ra because they want to look at an attractive female character at all hours and dress her up.

Your friend doesn't do this, good for him. Can't also hide from the fact that it does exist. Incidentally, I have friends who are on male Hrothgar because they're gay, bara and into the furry fandom. Good for them. I'm not into the furry fandom, or a homosexual man. But I can see the appeal from an outside perspective that Hrothgar does look pretty cool, and that anyone who enjoys such aesthetic should have a piece of that pie. I can also say that the race isn't claimed by an agenda. No, the only thing that can be pushed forward regarding it is the educated guess that Hrothgar is built for men, in its current genderlocked state. Why? Because it's locked to male-only, and it's a lot less likely to have a female playing on a male toon than it is for a male to. Male Hrothgar has zero feminity. Note, I'm female and I play on male characters only. It's rare. Again, does this make the race 'gay', no. Does it appeal to them? Yes. Does it appeal to furries? Yes. How many women are playing said race? About tree fiddy.

Female Viera, however, is built for both because women are more likely to play on a female toon and men are a lot more likely to switch to an attractive play bunny for their eye-candy. Shrug.

Isn't worth arguing about.

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Though I will say, I would rather mViera use the male Elezen body, with the neck tamed and a muscle definer like midlander - I'd jump real quick. Until then male Elezen is acceptable, even if I have to find outfits that cull the neck. I'm not interested in them sharing a body type with mMiqote, or their faces for that matter. They're a little too round for me. I prefer a jawline I can use as a ruler.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Specially interesting considering that the genders we currently have took 1.5 and for obvious resource reasons the new ones will likely take even less

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I suppose I missed something, but did amount of gear suddenly became lower..? I mean yes, making counterparts when you already have half of the race is a little bit easier in terms of style, but it doesn't make work with clothes any easier. They still will need to adjust 10k items for them. And even if they don't need to adjust some of them, they still need to check how they work on them. So saying they will take less time is a little bit far from true. They could take same amount of time, though.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

Having me pinch the bridge of my nose. Yes, your friend isn't gay and that's fine. But there's also denying that there are plenty of folks who are gay, bara and into the furry fandom. It's not a bad thing. It's a genuine observation. I will state that there's probably a good portion of individuals who are playing that race because it ticks off those specific reasons. It fits their aesthetic or 'sexuality' etc. Again, nothing wrong like that. It's the same as men hiding on female Miqote/Viera/Au'ra because they want to look at an attractive female character at all hours and dress her up.

Your friend doesn't do this, good for him. Can't also hide from the fact that it does exist. Incidentally, I have friends who are on male Hrothgar because they're gay, bara and into the furry fandom. Good for them. I'm not into the furry fandom, or a homosexual man. But I can see the appeal from an outside perspective that Hrothgar does look pretty cool, and that anyone who enjoys such aesthetic should have a piece of that pie. I can also say that the race isn't claimed by an agenda.No, the only thing that can be pushed forward regarding it is the educated guess that Hrothgar is built for men. in its current state. Why? Because it's locked to male-only, and it's a lot less likely to have a female playing on a male toon than it is for a male to. Note, I'm female and I play on male characters only. It's rare. Again, does this make the race 'gay', no. Does it appeal to them? Yes. Does it appeal to furries? Yes. How many women are playing said race? About tree fiddy.

Female Viera, however, is built for both because women are more likely to play on a female toon and men are a lot more likely to switch to an attractive play bunny for their eye-candy. Shrug.


Isn't worth arguing about.

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I know not worth arguing about, already blocked him since he doesn't even know the own words he posts. I'm one of those few who read the entire thread, and I'm not saying others are pushing his agenda, but he is, repeatedly on hundreds of posts. It's beyond ignorance and makes those of us are are not straight look bad in any light due to his non stop implications of the races and his wants claiming to be facts. Pathetic drivel if I am honest.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

I know not worth arguing about, already blocked him since he doesn't even know the own words he posts. I'm one of those few who read the entire thread, and I'm not saying others are pushing his agenda, but he is, repeatedly on hundreds of posts. It's beyond ignorance and makes those of us are are not straight look bad in any light due to his non stop implications of the races and his wants claiming to be facts. Pathetic drivel if I am honest.

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Aye, don't let it get you down or anything - just move on from it, as you have. A lot more folks are willing to have a good conversation and discussion that is backed up with facts and educated opinions. I did a little editing on my original post as well but not much.

Anyway, the more the merrier in regards to the good old discussion.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

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Yeah in all seriousness, I don't know what's wrong with pointing out that there's tons of gay furry guys who like bara. I'm in a discord filled to the brim with gay men, and guess what race they were hyped for the moment they were announced? I see tons of screenshots of their bara cats doing various bara cat activities. They're having their fun and there's absolutely 0 wrong with that.

There's a running joke that all gays are closet furry because of just how often the sexuality and fandom intersect. It's not a bad thing, it's just...a thing that happens to happen sometimes.

As far as M!Viera goes, since Yoshi said he'd ballpark them around Elezen, I feel like they would be kinda skinny. Probably a twunk body like au ra type if I'm being honest. As far as faces go, even if they don't mirror Miqo'te, all I want is a nice "softboy" face option so I can have some bunny boy cheeks to squish; and since all races seem to have one of those options, I highly doubt Viera are going to be skipped out there. square can't resist throwing in the obligatory pretty boy option.

Still showing my support of male Viera and female Hrothgar down the line!

Likewise. Even if we're more likely to get big buns rather than small buns, I'm tossing my support in here again since it's been so long. Glad to see the topic still growing though.

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Originally Posted by Skyskip

Likewise. Even if we're more likely to get big buns rather than small buns, I'm tossing my support in her again since it's been so long. Glad to see the topic still growing though.

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Even if we get big buns, we'll still probably have enough customization options to make small cute buns! :)

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I was hoping that they would be along the lines of Byakko. Minus the weird tiger arm. The final result does seem to be closer to the Japanese aesthetic of 'bara' than a Western design to me, though.

I like muscle, but around the point of a Highlander guy is roughly the limit of what I enjoy. Anything too far beyond that it ends up becoming too much and weirdly proportioned for my tastes.

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I think you can go a bit above Highlanders and still have it look fine, but not too much. I wish they had done so for Au Ra, since a lot of their concept art had portrayed such builds. Personally I don’t like the Roe or Hrothgar build, as it’s at the point where I find it too large. Something like male Raen being left as they are and Xaela achieving a build a bit above Highlanders would’ve pleased me. Something like these guys from DQXI:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9-2OHNUKUWY/maxresdefault.jpg

For Viera that'd probably be a bit too far, but a man can dream about them going back and re-doing Au Ra to be like that!

It's probably because of the lack of muscle slider and them being super tall, but I've honestly always seen Au ra males as flat, smooth even - not buff at all.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I think you can go a bit above Highlanders and still have it look fine, but not too much. I wish they had done so for Au Ra, since a lot of their concept art had portrayed such builds. Personally I don’t like the Roe or Hrothgar build, as it’s at the point where I find it too large. Something like male Raen being left as they are and Xaela achieving a build a bit above Highlanders would’ve pleased me. Something like these guys from DQXI:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9-2OHNUKUWY/maxresdefault.jpg

For Viera that'd probably be a bit too far, but a man can dream about them going back and re-doing Au Ra to be like that!

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Yeah, something like that would be perfect! I'd be more inclined to play a Raen or Xaela if I could design them to look that way.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

It's probably because of the lack of muscle slider and them being super tall, but I've honestly always seen Au ra males as flat, smooth even - not buff at all.

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Au ra men are quite unique in where their character models do indeed have a more muscled silhouette, however there isn't much of a muscle texture in their bodies, it's very strange. But Au ra still look plenty masculine and imposing. I don't think you need a 6 pack to look strong. (not to mention that the presence of pronounced abs is unnatural and is usually the result of dehydration but that's beside the point.)

I don't disagree, they do look strong and imposing, but a muscle tone slider would go a long way. It's also why I hope they add one for Viera should they add the males.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I don't disagree, they do look strong and imposing, but a muscle tone slider would go a long way. It's also why I hope they add one for Viera should they add the males.

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Agreed. I think it should be standard across the board at this point. I'm fairly optimistic that it'll be one of their customisation options if they're added, though.

With that said, I found some of the naming convention stuff to be a disappointment. The game has an unfortunate obsession with cutting away the stuff that makes each race unique when it comes to setting off into the world as an adventurer.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Interesting, so you see Highlanders as the max amount of muscles to what you enjoy but still wanted Byakko type for Hrothgar? And seeing some posts here (especially with Sturms art) even that type for Viera?

I am just a bit curious because I honestly thougth with the posts in this thread that you wanted really muscled men and that Midlanders, Elezen or even Highlanders was not enough for male Viera.

But I agree with you, I find that muscles beyond Highlanders often turn out a bit strange. (Not that people cant like that)

Of course any male Viera is better than none but I still hope that they fit with the females.

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It's 'roughly' my limit, yes. I like tall, muscular men but only when the proportions go up to a certain point. Highlander or a bit bigger is pretty much my limit, perhaps with a few exceptions. I don't have much interest in a Hrothgar or Roegadyn build since they're far too bulky to the point where they look comical to me.

It was the same issue I had with Draenei men back in WoW - their faces were great yet they were just too 'blocky' and oversized.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Agreed. I think it should be standard across the board at this point. I'm fairly optimistic that it'll be one of their customisation options if they're added, though.

With that said, I found some of the naming convention stuff to be a disappointment. The game has an unfortunate obsession with cutting away the stuff that makes each race unique when it comes to setting off into the world as an adventurer.

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It's silly. I would have been happier if they at least provided some kind of consistency to the types of names they take on in their new life, e.g. since it's likely to be in Dalmasca, something inspired by that.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I think you can go a bit above Highlanders and still have it look fine, but not too much. I wish they had done so for Au Ra, since a lot of their concept art had portrayed such builds. Personally I don’t like the Roe or Hrothgar build, as it’s at the point where I find it too large. Something like male Raen being left as they are and Xaela achieving a build a bit above Highlanders would’ve pleased me. Something like these guys from DQXI:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9-2OHNUKUWY/maxresdefault.jpg

For Viera that'd probably be a bit too far, but a man can dream about them going back and re-doing Au Ra to be like that!

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If my boi got changed to that I would change race. But I can see the appeal for beefer looking guys

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Because it amounts to little more than tea leaf reading. The ‘multiple problems’ they specify all resolve to resource issues. It is a maybe as much as some would like to stamp their feet and insist otherwise. There is no commitment to adding them and that is all there is to it at this point.

Also please don’t pretend as if people who work within the industry itself have not given their input on the comments. I can link these when I’m at my PC in case you want to pretend it didn’t happen.

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When did I pretend anything? Feel free to quote.
But since you sound so eager to disprove...something. Feel free to link.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...9_Statista.png

i dont play wow but i know Blood elves basically saved Horde

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Really? What did Alliance have before Cataclysm which...I THINK introduced the Worgan as Playable

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

When did I pretend anything? Feel free to quote.
But since you sound so eager to disprove...something. Feel free to link.

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I am rather eager to dispel the notion that the rationale they gave cannot be questioned, so here ya go. Keep going down and follow the chain.

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Originally Posted by Kobalos

If my boi got changed to that I would change race. But I can see the appeal for beefer looking guys

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Fair enough, although if they went with a midlander/highlander type split with Raen males staying as they are and Xaela adopting such a model, I think it'd work just fine. That, or giving Au Ra such a build whilst re-working Elezen so as not to be a write-off to most players interested in a build like theirs.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I am rather eager to dispel the notion that the rationale they gave cannot be questioned, so here ya go. Keep going down and follow the chain.

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So...you link me to a post made by someone who claims to work in the Industry (Im not calling them a liar, but unless I missed it they didn't post any qualifications or History...so it feels like we are just taking his word for it) And basically he said stuff that people agree with.
I can't take anything he posted in Stock unless he works for SE or is on the FFXIV workforce. Because it more sounds like "What he THinks" is going on, and not so much actual "facts"
And we already have plenty of people who have said the same things he said. In smaller posts

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Fair enough, although if they went with a midlander/highlander type split with Raen males staying as they are and Xaela adopting such a model, I think it'd work just fine. That, or giving Au Ra such a build whilst re-working Elezen so as not to be a write-off to most players interested in a build like theirs.

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See here's the problem we get into going back and editing the old races. If you're doing more than tweaking proportions (i.e. making Elezen necks look less awkward) you're going to have a bad time because a lot of people picked their race because the aesthetics were close enough to what they wanted. While a lot of clans are just palette swaps that doesn't change the fact that in your suggestion anyone who is currently playing a male Xaela and doesn't want to be broader and beefier would be given the choice between keeping their scale color and possibly skin tone or keeping their body build. If SE were to go back and do updates like that the best way would be to add a third clan, giving the option without the impact. That, however, is a lot of work and possibly more than they'd undertake.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Agreed. I think it should be standard across the board at this point. I'm fairly optimistic that it'll be one of their customisation options if they're added, though.

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I highly doubt we're going to be given a muscle slider, most likely they're going to have one body type like the other races and we're just getting an ears slider. One thing I noticed about ff14 is that they like to keep their "uniqueness" as tightly clutched as possible. This was evident when people asked for a moonstone/obsidian carbuncle glam option, and SE refused saying it was unique to the NPS and would make them less special to give them to PCs.

Obviously the muscle slider is the Hyur unique option, so I don't think they're going to give it to the Viera as it would make Hyurs less unique customization wise, we'll get to have some big-ass ears though.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

So...you link me to a post made by someone who claims to work in the Industry (Im not calling them a liar, but unless I missed it they didn't post any qualifications or History...so it feels like we are just taking his word for it) And basically he said stuff that people agree with.
I can't take anything he posted in Stock unless he works for SE or is on the FFXIV workforce. Because it more sounds like "What he THinks" is going on, and not so much actual "facts"
And we already have plenty of people who have said the same things he said. In smaller posts

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He actually did comment on his qualifications and employment history, here.

As to whether someone needs to work specifically for SE to express doubt on what Yoshi is saying, as opposed to having experience with other firms... I believe the former is setting the bar so high as to be nearly impossible to surmount, given how small a sample of the population that is, nevermind how much smaller the subset willing to comment on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

See here's the problem we get into going back and editing the old races. If you're doing more than tweaking proportions (i.e. making Elezen necks look less awkward) you're going to have a bad time because a lot of people picked their race because the aesthetics were close enough to what they wanted. While a lot of clans are just palette swaps that doesn't change the fact that in your suggestion anyone who is currently playing a male Xaela and doesn't want to be broader and beefier would be given the choice between keeping their scale color and possibly skin tone or keeping their body build. If SE were to go back and do updates like that the best way would be to add a third clan, giving the option without the impact. That, however, is a lot of work and possibly more than they'd undertake.

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I was stating what I had wish they had done from the outset. You will note I said a man can dream in regards to going back to rework Au Ra to that extent, i.e. it's beyond the point of no return.

Adding a third clan could work but yes, they would parcel it off in the "too much work" area. The most we can hope for is a muscle tone slider, given their past comments on the subject.

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Originally Posted by Mochamonarch

I highly doubt we're going to be given a muscle slider, most likely they're going to have one body type like the other races and we're just getting an ears slider. One thing I noticed about ff14 is that they like to keep their "uniqueness" as tightly clutched as possible. This was evident when people asked for a moonstone/obsidian carbuncle glam option, and SE refused saying it was unique to the NPS and would make them less special to give them to PCs.

Obviously the muscle slider is the Hyur unique option, so I don't think they're going to give it to the Viera as it would make Hyurs less unique customization wise, we'll get to have some big-ass ears though.

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WoW, for all its flaws, is adding an increasing amount of options for player characters over time. I don't doubt that FFXIV will need to follow suit at some point for fear of being left behind - especially with the older models looking rather dated next to some of the unique NPC models and newer environments.

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Originally Posted by Mochamonarch

Obviously the muscle slider is the Hyur unique option, so I don't think they're going to give it to the Viera as it would make Hyurs less unique customization wise, we'll get to have some big-ass ears though.

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As a longtime femroe player I can state that femroes also have a muscle slider so it's not just Hyurs! I believe it's actually given to any race that doesn't possess adjustable ears or a tail, taking up the slot that slider uses instead.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I was stating what I had wish they had done from the outset. You will note I said a man can dream in regards to going back to rework Au Ra to that extent, i.e. it's beyond the point of no return.

Adding a third clan could work but yes, they would parcel it off in the "too much work" area. The most we can hope for is a muscle tone slider, given their past comments on the subject.

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Apologies but it sounded less like the outset and more like them re-editing the models now. Sorry for misinterpreting you.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

See here's the problem we get into going back and editing the old races. If you're doing more than tweaking proportions (i.e. making Elezen necks look less awkward) you're going to have a bad time because a lot of people picked their race because the aesthetics were close enough to what they wanted. While a lot of clans are just palette swaps that doesn't change the fact that in your suggestion anyone who is currently playing a male Xaela and doesn't want to be broader and beefier would be given the choice between keeping their scale color and possibly skin tone or keeping their body build. If SE were to go back and do updates like that the best way would be to add a third clan, giving the option without the impact. That, however, is a lot of work and possibly more than they'd undertake.

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There was an incident exactly like this on Neopets (any neopets vets in this thread is going to know exactly what I'm talking about) where they updated the art of the pets to make room for the new cash shop items. this meant there was a non-consensual conversion of 90% of the playerbase's pets that happened once the update dropped. This lead to a surge of angry players that never quite let it go, and since there was a small percentage of pets that didn't get the art updated, those pets became a status symbol as the last remnants of the past they had.

Where I'm getting at is, SE is most likely never going to overhaul any character races drastically without giving the choice to keep the old ones, it would upset far too many people and lead to a huge can of worms that they would never recover from. No mater how much I dislike Elezen pencil necks, or beefy body types, there are people out there who love them; and to rip that away from them would be downright cruel.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

WoW, for all its flaws, is adding an increasing amount of options for player characters over time. I don't doubt that FFXIV will need to follow suit at some point for fear of being left behind - especially with the older models looking rather dated next to some of the unique NPC models and newer environments.

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I think i remember Squeenix saying...somewhere, that they wanted to do just that. Make the models look more HD or something, I can't remember. I don't know if it was a passing wistful comment or not. but I do agree, the older models' ages are beginning to show. GW2 did an amazing job on their character customization as well, though their methods of achieving that level customization leaves a lot to be desired.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

As a longtime femroe player I can state that femroes also have a muscle slider so it's not just Hyurs! I believe it's actually given to any race that doesn't possess adjustable ears or a tail, taking up the slot that slider uses instead.

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Ah, I stand corrected. Though the point still stands that they most likely will leave muscle sliders to non kemonomimi races.

In terms of updating old races I always thought things like muscle definition sliders, more customization options etc could at the very least be introduced by adding third clans.

Elezen do need slightly bigger heads though.

For aspects like muscle definition sliders they and so on they could avoid the third clan route. I think it's when more substantial changes to the physique come into the picture that you'd require something like a third clan.

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Originally Posted by Mochamonarch

I think i remember Squeenix saying...somewhere, that they wanted to do just that. Make the models look more HD or something, I can't remember. I don't know if it was a passing wistful comment or not. but I do agree, the older models' ages are beginning to show. GW2 did an amazing job on their character customization as well, though their methods of achieving that level customization leaves a lot to be desired.

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They certainly want to - and reiterated that desire both during the EU Fanfest art panel and also during the guest meetings with Yoshi-P, however this is the challenge besetting them.

As costly as it may be, not doing it may end up being an even bigger liability. We'll see what they have to say closer to 6.0, however realistically if they do want to upgrade the textures in time for that they'll need to make a decision soon.

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Originally Posted by Mochamonarch

There was an incident exactly like this on Neopets (any neopets vets in this thread is going to know exactly what I'm talking about) where they updated the art of the pets to make room for the new cash shop items. this meant there was a non-consensual conversion of 90% of the playerbase's pets that happened once the update dropped. This lead to a surge of angry players that never quite let it go, and since there was a small percentage of pets that didn't get the art updated, those pets became a status symbol as the last remnants of the past they had.

Where I'm getting at is, SE is most likely never going to overhaul any character races drastically without giving the choice to keep the old ones, it would upset far too many people and lead to a huge can of worms that they would never recover from. No mater how much I dislike Elezen pencil necks, or beefy body types, there are people out there who love them; and to rip that away from them would be downright cruel.




I think i remember Squeenix saying...somewhere, that they wanted to do just that. Make the models look more HD or something, I can't remember. I don't know if it was a passing wistful comment or not. but I do agree, the older models' ages are beginning to show. GW2 did an amazing job on their character customization as well, though their methods of achieving that level customization leaves a lot to be desired.



Ah, I stand corrected. Though the point still stands that they most likely will leave muscle sliders to non kemonomimi races.

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I'm a little confused, it's their game and they can do what they desire with it. They wish to update the models then they can do so because, in the end, it's their vision of the game and not ours that takes precedence. I know this argument all too well since I'm a staff member on a rival site of 'Neopets'. If the update is an overall improvement in quality then it should be done and not be held back. Updates for character models should simply be adding in sliders for those who want specific traits of old races. Such as the Elezen long neck, while those who would prefer a shorter neck. As long as it's not drastic and is a huge improvement in quality, then it should be done. But things such as textures and changes to animations - eg) Elezen walking a little too stiffly, should also be given the go-ahead to upgrade. The old races look terrible in comparison to the new ones. Textures are the first thing that should be given an overhaul.
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Also, as stated from being from a rival site of Neopets with a large userbase. This happens regardless in every single update to a pet website. It boils down to kids/teens and young adults mostly being entitled. A dev add something in, people will complain and want it toggled. A change in colouration of a specific pet or a variation of the pet? More complaining, etc. It's never-ending.

Toggles aren't much of an answer either as they can be very taxing on the system, especially when it comes to models.