Dark Knight Megathread

The big problems with current DRK are these imo:
1. Delirium feels like an Inner Release copy.
2. Living Shadow doesn't do anything. Its a 1 button press every 2 minutes with no interactions.
3. Dark Mind is not so good in general.
4. Shadowbringer while cool looking is just 2 button presses per 2 minutes.
5. Living Dead

How these could be fixed:
->Delirium could go as a GCD for a new combo, along with Scourge making a comeback.
->Living Shadow could be on a 1 min, and offer you a new combo ( like Paladin's Confiteor combo, but around 5 or 6 gcds, granting you a Reaper like Enshroud effect )
->I got this idea for Dark Mind to be renamed Blood price and heal you for a % of damage mitigated and shielded. Would work well in dungeons, and with the kit of DRK in general.
->Shadowbringer could be a combo for Flood. Edge could have the same treatment.
->Someone posted here before that Living Dead could just grant you a 300% max HP shield if you were to die.

Oh and TBN and Oblation combined into one. 20 sec CD. No MP cost. Its horrible to have to weave while bursting TBN , Oblation, Dark Mind, Shadow wall and the many other OGCDs for damage.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

Guess we're nitpicking hypotheticals now. K.

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It is absolutely not a "nitpick". We're making a comparison between mitigation via a flat-value shield that scales with your stats, and percentage-based mitigation that scales with incoming damage.

If you then go on to choose a hypothetical that just casually presumes incoming damage that is at least 150-200% the amount of incoming damage found anywhere in the game, you are being dishonest, whether you mean to be or not.

It matters that you do some basic research if you're going to participate in these discussions. This is simple arithmetic; there's a right answer and a wrong one.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

A well timed HoC reduces more dmg then 2 tbn could

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For HoC to nullify more damage than 2 TBNs, you'd have to have nullified, off a mere 30 and/or 15% mitigation, 50% of your HP over 8 seconds.

That means, at minimum, you'd have to take what would have been 167% of your HP (enough to kill you, through a non-crit Catharsis of Corundum, from full HP) in the first 4 seconds. If the damage was taken over more time than the first 4 seconds, the would-be damage would have to be doubled, because the mitigation at that point nullifies only half as much (15%, down from 30%).

What, in this game, deals 167% of your HP, after all other forms of mitigation (as in, leaving out only TBN/HoC), in under 4 seconds without you having taken unnecessary vuln stacks?

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Originally Posted by ItsUrBoi

-How these could be fixed:
->Delirium could go as a GCD for a new combo, along with Scourge making a comeback.
->Living Shadow could be on a 1 min, and offer you a new combo ( like Paladin's Confiteor combo, but around 5 or 6 gcds, granting you a Reaper like Enshroud effect )
->I got this idea for Dark Mind to be renamed Blood price and heal you for a % of damage mitigated and shielded. Would work well in dungeons, and with the kit of DRK in general.
->Shadowbringer could be a combo for Flood. Edge could have the same treatment.
->Someone posted here before that Living Dead could just grant you a 300% max HP shield if you were to die.

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[1] Please not this. If the problem with Delirium Release is that it's spammy and thoughtless, copying anything like Confiteor combo would just be spammy, thoughtless, and even more constraining.

[2] Does that actually do anything different, except to fetter Shadowbringer slightly?

Fully agreed on the problems you mentioned, though.

Honestly after playing them both a bit the TBN problem could be solved with a simple 2 stack of AD on a 30 to 45s cd

(this is not to say that tbn is good gameplay wise simple it gets the job done but needs a buffer)

I think HoC has a solid buffer and that's what makes it so good that 900 pot heal after dropping is a nice safety net (comfy but not too comfy) and TBN is not about safety more of brace for impact (gameplay wise)

TLDR I don't hate the EW Drk but its definitely a dice roll when you play it in dungeons but raids and bosses no worry actually its pretty dam good in those
I feel like a dps in content with cds kinda like GNB in early ShB
I for one am a fan of spamming all your abilities and double weaving etc but I feel that's for more dps then anything. Makes it more hard to mit when your in a dps rotation as a tank

I am still for a redesign of Drk Im not a fan of bubbles or my back breaking when I swing my sword (and don't give me that crap about its heavy that excuse is dead)
BUT the DrK got if they were do anything to just bandage the living problem for now I would think that a simple solution
They job does have a form of synergy but not in the conventional way though this isn't benifital to anyone(especially casual players- not to mock just stating-)
More direct and real synergy would be better

Also get rid of LD like IDK about lore anymore this is just neglect at this point or pride.

From a casual perspective, I just think TBN should heal, and should have synergy with oblation.
If the whole shield is not broken -> you recover HP depending of how much of your shield is remaining (so, at least when you are soloing a dungeon boss, you can heal between the "busters". Would also allow to heal a teammate before the next raid-wide if the healer is down)
If you use TBN while in Oblation -> you recover HP on top of getting the shield. That to make the level 82 ability a bit more "on par" with other tanks.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

Don't think it as they're ignoring you, balance patches have never done re-works of jobs, exception of performing so bad.

At the same time Dragonsong Ultimate is coming in 6.1, and making wild changes can really end up with problems than solving, this is all schedule planned, I assume the rework would come 6.2 if I'm being realistic. If it's 6.1, then, ok was all planned.

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You should avoid speaking like that in the forums, yoship said is he not pleased the way we speak and make complains so maybe be patient and a bit more humble.

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Originally Posted by Vatom

Also get rid of LD like IDK about lore anymore this is just neglect at this point or pride.

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Living Dead isn't bad. *Chorus of booing DRKs*

Lemme put it a different way; as design it's bad. As an idea, I like it. People joke about being "Too Angry to die" and that's basically what Living Dead gives me, too angry/vengeful to die, can't bother to be in the ground when people need saving and monsters need killing.

The Problem is that kinda by design, it really feels like "OH I hope you have a Benediction on hand." Even prepared healers can flub this from another of factors. Though GNB has a simliar issue, the fact they don't have a built in death timer and only have the boss to kill them makes it feel and behave different.

Living Dead can stay but it needs to have a way of lessening the stress on both the DRK and any healer that they're partnered with. I'm sure there's a number of ways to fix this; Have our blood gauge affect our HP when going into it, massive Lifesteal, boosted incoming heals, something. I believe there's a couple ways you can make this to be easier but also more interesting. Heck they could just bake in more Healing/Life steal into the kit as a whole to help out.

OR. We just make "ShadowDouble - Make all instances of damage miss. 10s duration", make it have a shadow/Fray double take the hits instead, and just roll only.

Well the idea would be to have Living Shadow act like a Reaper's Enshroud allowing you 23 seconds to pull of a new fast paced combo ( like RDM, RPR) of 5 or 6 GCDs. You have 23 seconds to use it since you will be in the Living Shadow form, that's plenty of time, and other shouldn't interrupt it.

Shadowbringer could contribute as a heal or maybe just as damage.
At the end of the day DRKs identity should be Living Shadow as a "I go crazy mode", and Dark Arts to augment abilities.
If you strip down the design of something like Edge to its core, it does damage. Now what's the difference between an Edge with 500 potency and a Dark Arts which makes Edge stronger by 25% but Edge has 400 potency?
They are the same, except the choice of using Dark Arts on it, when you coould perhaps use it on something else for another use.
If Dark Arts would return it should have clear uses:
-augment one ability for better defense
-augment one ability for more damage
-augment one ability for healing

If you can augment 2 abilities for damage when they are the same, it becomes bloat, if one is weaker than the other, it becomes not so good.

I was trying to include work on Shadowbringer into a more interactive kit. Like what if using Dark Arts on Flood/Edge allowed you this combo into Shadowbringer / "stronger Edge" and that'd be the damager oriented use for a new Dark Arts? Use it on Bloodspiller and you get a bit of a damage loss, but you heal for a lot. Use it on TBN for defense and you get a 35% shield, and the DarkArts back if TBN breaks.

Little interactions like this giving you a choice between mitigation, sustain and pure damage would be pretty cool imo for DarkArts.
Of course, mitigating properly should be rewarded so you do not lose damage, doing more damage should do more damage, and if you made a mistske you can have the flexibility to recover, with a small damage loss.

I especially think Dark Mind turning into Blood price which would heal you for a % of damage mitigated and shielded would bring some synergy. ( Thrill of battle but DRK style?)

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Originally Posted by Xrison

At this point, I almost feel like the devs are fu*king with us. They announced a DPS increase for PLD coming in the next patch but are completely silent about DRK's survivability, which has the most complaints by FAR of all the tanks. I'm half expecting them to give WAR more self heals before DRK gets fixed.

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Did you see yoship complaining about users being abusive with comments? Maybe you should be way more polite and humble instead of using that kind of language.

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

Living Dead isn't bad. *Chorus of booing DRKs*

Lemme put it a different way; as design it's bad. As an idea, I like it. People joke about being "Too Angry to die" and that's basically what Living Dead gives me, too angry/vengeful to die, can't bother to be in the ground when people need saving and monsters need killing.

The Problem is that kinda by design, it really feels like "OH I hope you have a Benediction on hand." Even prepared healers can flub this from another of factors. Though GNB has a simliar issue, the fact they don't have a built in death timer and only have the boss to kill them makes it feel and behave different.

Living Dead can stay but it needs to have a way of lessening the stress on both the DRK and any healer that they're partnered with. I'm sure there's a number of ways to fix this; Have our blood gauge affect our HP when going into it, massive Lifesteal, boosted incoming heals, something. I believe there's a couple ways you can make this to be easier but also more interesting. Heck they could just bake in more Healing/Life steal into the kit as a whole to help out.

OR. We just make "ShadowDouble - Make all instances of damage miss. 10s duration", make it have a shadow/Fray double take the hits instead, and just roll only.

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GNB : Heart of corundum triggers when gnb uses his invul = instant 20-30% hp back + aurora if you want. Does not die when hp did not fully recover.
DRK : Rely on healer, often dies even with healer focus without benediction. Needs to recover 100% of hp to not die after invul.

Both invuls are not equally bad (not even close) if you take the tanks toolkit into account.