Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by Eothas

Oh, fine. Glad we both agree that it's just an opinion and not a fact.

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If that is the only thing you want to possibly learn or consider from my post then...Okay, fine, more power to you O.o

Sometimes efficiency is hard to analyze.

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Originally Posted by CaeliaCat

Yes they do.. on a single target.. if the WHM can proc a lily.. and they didn't already use that lily on Assize, Asylum, or Tetra topping people off before the upcoming mechanic.. and it's only a 15% HP shield, not even as good as the old stoneskin trait WHM had in 2.0. I think that's the problem we're wanting to discuss in this thread. ;)

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I heard it was clarified that Cure II gives a lily 100%. So couldn't you just Cure II someone then use Divine Benison on the person who might need the shield?

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Originally Posted by Miste

If that is the only thing you want to possibly learn or consider from my post then...Okay, fine, more power to you O.o

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Such as? There is nothing relevant to my posts in there... :| I won't discuss opinions, it's irrelevant. Clunky for you I guess, because you probably aren't very good to decide on the fly when the tick will happen.

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Originally Posted by Miste

I heard it was clarified that Cure II gives a lily 100%. So couldn't you just Cure II someone then use Divine Benison on the person who might need the shield?

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That's the rumor! So I guess, assuming there is time, the WHM can AOE heal the party to top everyone off before a phase transition, throw out a wasted single target Cure II to proc a lily, and place a single wimpy shield on one player. Again, assuming there is time.

I don't know, that CU of yours looks prettttttty nice by comparison.

There is also the possibility of keeping the WHM "pure healer" ability with a skill that could allow him to dps with his heals:

Conversion: Allow yourself to target ennemies with your healing spells for 15s. Healing spells targeted at enemies now deals 50% of their potency as unaspected damage instead of healing (30% for damage over time potencies). 60s cooldown.

That would make WHM a huge powerhouse as dps, while making him able to dps with heals while making lillies, and still be a pure healer.

The potency would look like 225 for cure, 350 for cure II, 275 for cure III, 250 for medica II and 315 for regen, which would compensate for his total lack of raid dps or utility, while not being excedently overpowered. (since only 25% of the time).
And stone IV and the other dps skill would still be used when he isnt under conversion.

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Originally Posted by Eothas

Such as? There is nothing relevant to my posts in there... :| I won't discuss opinions, it's irrelevant. Clunky for you I guess, because you probably aren't very good to decide on the fly when the tick will happen.

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So much for adult discussion. Resorting to calling me bad because I don't know when the server ticks are happening instead of discussing opinions which is mostly all these forums are full of.

If you don't discuss opinions and they are irrelevant to you then you prob shouldn't even bother posting or even reading the forums...yeah, you confuse me, you definitely lost me on this one. (especially since you reply to my posts even though I said they were opinions...if you don't discuss opinions then why reply?)

Also unless you are some kind of robot mathematician that can keep track of it in your mind every time 3 seconds happens and you sync that with the sever... you can't just "guess" when the server tick is happening. You would have to have some tell like seeing a regen fly text proc on a player near you then counting 2 1/2 seconds...you're not serious are you?

I give you props for the sudden rudeness and hostility.

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Originally Posted by CaeliaCat

That's the rumor! So I guess, assuming there is time, the WHM can AOE heal the party to top everyone off before a phase transition, throw out a wasted single target Cure II to proc a lily, and place a single wimpy shield on one player. Again, assuming there is time.

I don't know, that CU of yours looks prettttttty nice by comparison.

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Well WHM isn't supposed to be a shielder really. At least they haven't been at all. SCH was the initial shielder and then AST was created but they needed a way for AST to meld with WHM OR SCH so they decided to make them a hybrid which could switch between a shielder and a direct healer depending on their healing partner.

In that situation your co-healer would be SCH or AST and would do the shield for your group. SE isn't going to make casual content unhealable by WHM/WHM just because they don't have shields but double stacking the same healers is never going to be better than different healer pairs.

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Originally Posted by Miste

So much for adult discussion. Resorting to calling me bad because I don't know when the server ticks are happening instead of discussing opinions which is mostly all these forums are full of.

If you don't discuss opinions and they are irrelevant to you then you prob shouldn't even bother posting or even reading the forums...yeah, you confuse me, you definitely lost me on this one. (especially since you reply to my posts even though I said they were opinions...if you don't discuss opinions then why reply?)

I give you props for the sudden rudeness and hostility.

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I never called you bad, just that it may be clunky because of it. I also have problems with the server tick, but there is other players who doesn't, and that amplifies CU efficiency, we tave to base the skill power on the most skilled players or else it can become unbalanced. Opinions are fine, but when we are discussing in-game skills we need facts to determine if they are balanced or not, opinions won't help.

You started with the subtle hostility repeating things with emojis like I couldn't read.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Well WHM isn't supposed to be a shielder really. At least they haven't been at all.

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I gotta call BS on this one. WHM has had Stoneskin, which is a fancy name for "single target shield based on the targets max HP" since 2.0 dropped. They had Graniteskin, which made the WHM version of SS stronger than the version SCH could slot, and this gave WHM niche; SCH was the "main" shielder, with the potential for more common shields via Succor and Adlo, while WHM was the "conditional" shielder. I remember back in the day, as a WAR tanking Titan Hard pre-IB change. If I had a good WHM/SCH combination with me, I didn't have to fear Mountain Buster. The Graniteskin from a good WHM and a SCH who was on point with Adlo made all the difference. And it felt nice, seeing that kind of coordination give the result that it did.

So, no, I wouldn't say WHM has *never* been the shielder. They weren't the primary shielder, but they sure as hell had a shield that every healer (and PLD too!) slots on their bar 100% of the time at level cap.

And now that's gone. For a mechanic on a much longer cooldown, gated behind a mostly-RNG based system that rewards suboptimal play.

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Originally Posted by Miste

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I feel like we are going around in circles at this point. WHM was indeed a shielder in the past. 18 percent stonekin was invaluable during coil progression (Allagan Field T8, Ravens Beak T9, Preys T10, Brand T12, Flatten T13, etc.) Heavensward saw that reduced to 10 percent, but WHM could at least cast stoneskin faster and as often as needed. Stormblood is further reducing shielding ability, locking it behind lilies and limiting it to a single target expending all lilies.

With AST and SCH both having strong healing ability, shielding / mitigation ability, and party damage improvement abilities, SE needs to either buff WHM shielding OR add party damage utility if they want meaningful healer balance.

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Originally Posted by Eothas

I never called you bad, just that it may be clunky because of it. I also have problems with the server tick, but there is other players who doesn't, and that amplifies CU efficiency, we tave to base the skill power on the most skilled players or else it can become unbalanced. Opinions are fine, but when we are discussing in-game skills we need facts to determine if they are balanced or not, opinions won't help.

You started with the subtle hostility repeating things with emojis like I couldn't read.

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I put those emoji there to be more amicable since I wasn't trying to be rude by clarifying my post; I just didn't want you to misunderstand that I was claiming facts that's all.

So you unfortunately didn't read my posts with a good mindset and tacked on hostility that wasn't there. Maybe I did the same thing with your last post, but when you say someone is "not very good" at something then...you basically mean they are bad or at least leaning heavily towards bad.

It wasn't very nice.

Well my original post wasn't discussing with you...someone else posted an opinion that AST having CU is ridiculous. That is an opinion. So I shared mine with her, but you decided to put your opinion in about CU as well which is your right to do of course....but you do realize your post reply to me was just your opinion as well right that me calling CU a crappier version of Asylum was "too much"; that's your opinion.

I mean we both have been discussing eachothers opinions this whole exchange O.o my opinion is my opinion and yours is yours. You have no real factual data and neither do I really unless we did a lot of testing and math....so idk kind of confused on why you think you aren't discussing opinions.

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Originally Posted by Quor

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Originally Posted by CaeliaCat

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I never said WHM never had any shields so idk where you got that from....I meant shielder as in the style of healing. Stoneskin like what was said is conditional where SCH used shields more often especially Succor etc. While WHM focuses more on keeping HoTs on and direct heals occasionally shielding with Stoneskin for tankbusters. So you didn't understand what I meant. WHM used shields in the past, but that didn't make their healing style shielder. Otherwise they would have an equivalent to succor and sacred soil.

I was there for all the coils as WHM using Stoneskin on Death Sentence in T5, Ravensbeak in T9, and Bahamut's crazy Stomp + Flare Breath combo in T13, but it seems SE has gone away from that and tank busters aren't hitting as hard anymore. A12S for example Punishing Heat doesn't need Stoneskin or Adlo...the tank just needs a proper cooldown. You maybe could get away with no Stoneskin or Adlo in coils but it was way riskier and possible the tank might eat floor.

But maybe some misunderstanding here I am not against keeping Stoneskin for WHM. Honestly my boyfriend is happy its gone cause I used to bug him about casting it prepull, but now I don't have it anymore ;_;

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Originally Posted by Quor

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Very well said. Stoneskin is a boon, always has been, even after it was nerfed in 3.0. Sure, that sucked pretty bad, but I don't know a single good WHM that stopped relying on it altogether.

There is no foreseeable reason as to why it was removed. None, whatsoever. I'm sure new content won't require it, because the chance that the damage in Stormblood will be consistently higher than it was in Heavensward is slim. And yet, the complete removal of it affects low level content as well. WHM will bring less to the table compared to SCH and AST at level 70, no one can deny that. And now in level-synced content, they'll bring even less. The lackluster skills in 4.0, the lily system, the donation of a huge part of our kit to cross role... All of these are pretty god damn bad, but it's the axing of Stoneskin that really makes me go 'what the hell were they thinking?'