Character graphical changes are NOT in an acceptable state, please make it optional

Don't mind me while I bump this thread. There was another thread a couple of weeks back that talked specifically about female Highlander face 2, this post in particular showed how different the eye shape changes are and it's something I feel is best brought up in a larger thread.

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Originally Posted by Aimed

The make up is masking an even bigger issue with this face.

Using facepaint to kill the makeup shows that the eye underneath is COMPLETELY different.

https://imgur.com/a/FccWKGC
https://i.imgur.com/cO6sTqS.png

These eye shapes are great and much needed but they are NOT a translation of the eyes choosen by the players. Can these please be made an option, rather than an overwrite?

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The difference in shape is quite staggering; the fold of the eyelid on benchmark is much further up, the eyes themselves feel a little wider, and the upper eyelid in particular curves differently. I currently use eye shape 3 on my character, but I'm not happy with how my characters eyes looked in the benchmark, I'll likely swap to shape 4 if it doesn't get fixed.

It'd be nice to see if the shape could be corrected by the time the new benchmark gets released.

Just discussion, I don't even see the necessity to this "upgrade." They didn't even upgrade anything? The skin textures look worse than the original in some of these photos. They either look so smooth it's like a plastic doll, or they're still bad and pixelated. I was genuinely trying to see what the improvement really was at times. They added more lines to the pupil... and some of the hairstyles are smoothed out. There's no huge improvement. I did notice lalafell (looked the same), highlander / elezen seemed to come out much better than the other races. At least with those models I can see a real difference with the skin textures being updated.

It really looks like they just went in and touched up the design of the faces, not the graphics in most of the pictures showing comparisons. It's like.. a whole new calamity. We had bahamut and now we have really weird face design decisions. I know many people may not be able to see the difference, but the way your character makes you -feel- can be altered with slight changes. It's like death by a 1000 papercuts. Rounded edges = swollen looking faces, not modern graphics. Rounding out the eyes = a softer / doe-like expression, not a bada** warrior look. Plump undefined lips = very bad plastic surgery look. These are probably the most common issues I've found with the updated faces. It's like every character either went to a bad plastic surgeon or they're having a permanent allergic reaction to something.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

The difference in shape is quite staggering; the fold of the eyelid on benchmark is much further up, the eyes themselves feel a little wider, and the upper eyelid in particular curves differently.

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It looks like they changed the ethnicity of highlanders. Wow.

Regardless of people being mean spirited about your current character, I think the point is we can see the differences but disagree that the character is ‘unrecognisable’ and ‘barely looks like the same character’. They look like pretty small changes to me that hopefully can be tweaked a little to bring the new character closer to the current look.

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Originally Posted by twobear

Regardless of people being mean spirited about your current character, I think the point is we can see the differences but disagree that the character is ‘unrecognisable’ and ‘barely looks like the same character’. They look like pretty small changes to me that hopefully can be tweaked a little to bring the new character closer to the current look.

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Except in a lot of cases they cannot be made to look closer to the original, because of how limited the options are, some looks are completely lost. This is a ridiculous take. Facial features are a key part of what makes people recognizable between each other. If it didn't matter people wouldn't get plastic surgery. It may not be a big deal for you, but for people that love their character, changing these characteristics to such a degree changes the mood of the character, and we loose something we cannot get back.

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Originally Posted by twobear

Regardless of people being mean spirited about your current character, I think the point is we can see the differences but disagree that the character is ‘unrecognisable’ and ‘barely looks like the same character’. They look like pretty small changes to me that hopefully can be tweaked a little to bring the new character closer to the current look.

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Tweaked how? By using a fantasia to choose facial feature options that don't exist anymore?

Or by sending the developer weird contradictory messages like "hey these before and after pictures look identical and we can't tell the difference but could you please make them more similar?"

It's plain and simple that those who downplay the differences are trying to stifle feedback and derail threads in the hopes that the devs do not adjust their new designs.

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Originally Posted by twobear

Regardless of people being mean spirited about your current character, I think the point is we can see the differences but disagree that the character is ‘unrecognisable’ and ‘barely looks like the same character’. They look like pretty small changes to me that hopefully can be tweaked a little to bring the new character closer to the current look.

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The changes may be small. But often, they take some character of a facial feature. It seems to me, that SQEX tries to homogenize the faces. Everything looks softer, rounder, less edgy, blurrier etc. The differences between the faces and facial features are fading. And i do not think, that this is a good idea.




Cheers

I think on some level it boils down to expectations. Some characters are less affected than others and fall within a range of "different" that met their expectations. Others see "different" and are immediately displeased because they expected a 1:1 HD version of their character. This is why there's so much disagreement on what determines a "totally different character".

What's most interesting to me is what the dev team can realistically do to correct the less severe issue i.e. preferences in eye shape, lip shape, skin texture, etc. I think it's one thing to fix a graphical issue but it's another to dig into finer details oriented around player preferences. I mean the dev team doesn't seem to care that people feel jobs are homogenized. So..

I'm basically just saying I'm not incredibly optimistic. I am expecting updates to lighting, texture loading issues, weird seams, maybe even the face paint effects, etc. I'm not sure if suddenly the shapes and proportions of face features are magically going to be improved.

I just took some more side by sides of my Miqo'te Moon with Face 2 - Eyebrows 4 - Eyes 6
https://i.imgur.com/q1qWAcM.png
https://i.imgur.com/APRTyUd.png
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...ality=lossless
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...ality=lossless
the face marks look more like paint (especially on the forehead)
Eyebrow shape has changed and kinda look more chopped?
Eyeshape change + eyeliner?? and some smaller lip change

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...960&height=482
Mouth changed and most important .. the fangs ;_;

https://i.imgur.com/iGg2Fps.png
I also noticed a change in this particular hairstyle as they now added a space for ears... ??
They also fixed the gap in the neck

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

Except in a lot of cases they cannot be made to look closer to the original, because of how limited the options are, some looks are completely lost. This is a ridiculous take. Facial features are a key part of what makes people recognizable between each other. If it didn't matter people wouldn't get plastic surgery. It may not be a big deal for you, but for people that love their character, changing these characteristics to such a degree changes the mood of the character, and we loose something we cannot get back.

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Sorry, I meant tweaked by the developer before the launch to bring it more in line with the current look, where shapes of eyes etc. have been changed for the update so far.

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Originally Posted by twobear

Sorry, I meant tweaked by the developer before the launch to bring it more in line with the current look, where shapes of eyes etc. have been changed for the update so far.

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and there was even a lodestone update from Yoshi P the other day on where they are at in updating the CC and such. it seems like they are fixing the complaints it will see hopefully on 5/23 possibly with the updated benchmark if they are able to get the updated benchmark out.

I'm hoping for the best with the updated benchmark, but I'm also prepared for the worst. It's not just that my character looks different than before, but also somehow of lower quality?

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Originally Posted by PolkaPolka

I'm hoping for the best with the updated benchmark, but I'm also prepared for the worst. It's not just that my character looks different than before, but also somehow of lower quality?

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My guess is that quality will increase, but differences will remain.

Not sure if this is the right place for feedbacks. But I noticed that the lips look highly different in this face. And the current ones look so much better than the new ones in my opinion.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GM5Bu93W...jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GM49gcAW...jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GM49gb6W...pg&name=medium

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Originally Posted by ElizanderNorisse

Not sure if this is the right place for feedbacks. But I noticed that the lips look highly different in this face. And the current ones look so much better than the new ones in my opinion.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GM5Bu93W...jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GM49gcAW...jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GM49gb6W...pg&name=medium

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Wait is that the same character? >.>

Yes, it is the same. And the lips are the same too but they have been altered in the benchmark/graphic overhaul.

Yes, the lips are very different. The other parts of the face, i cannot tell. Because the normal maps in the original client are messed up. And the false lighting effects distort everything.





Cheers

I agree.

Here is the same character but with the same hairstyle used in the benchmark.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GM5kZhjW...jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GM49gb6W...pg&name=medium

I swear the devs need to go get re-trained, instead of making collabs with my little pony

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Originally Posted by LadyEureka

I swear the devs need to go get re-trained, instead of making collabs with my little pony

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...what the hell does that even mean?

This drives me up a building every time I see it; do they not review this?
https://i.ibb.co/n7M65VS/glasses.png

In case this thread makes a difference, I'm going to leave my case here as well.

I'm not as good as other people at identifying what specifically changed. However, I just did a side by side of the live character creation and the Dawntrail benchmark, and my WoL also feels different in a way that I don't like.

https://i.imgur.com/Am3wlhc.png https://i.imgur.com/zBpdgsq.png

https://i.imgur.com/4gHcfzi.png https://i.imgur.com/8398rKI.png

Here's also a video of the first set, tabbing between the character creators.

First picture is live, second is benchmark.

I feel like the current look is more natural, like your average person who cares about their image and puts some work into it but knows how not to overdo it. Meanwhile in the benchmark she looks like one of those girls on social media who try to look like a doll.

I'm stoked about a lot of things from the graphical update, but changing the fundamental feel of characters is really not one of those things. I hope some of this gets reverted or they work to align it closer to the look these facial and hair features had for years. Many of these things are not simply an improvement to the graphical quality, but a change in style altogether, and one that frankly I'm not behind.

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Originally Posted by Vvera_Fhar

I feel like the current look is more natural, like your average person who cares about their image and puts some work into it but knows how not to overdo it. Meanwhile in the benchmark she looks like one of those girls on social media who try to look like a doll.

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That's my feeling on particularly my Midlander girl as well. I quite deliberately picked the face that didn't look too dolled up, but now she does. The increased effect of the ambient colour scheme also makes her look sickly, while every other lighting gives her the awful illuminated effect that can be seen on some other images other people's images.

https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/...2c781ac58a.jpg

The list of issues is long but the biggest one is that the eyes have totally changed – the eyelashes and lids are lowered and she now has a strong crease in the upper eyelid, which some of the other Midlander faces have but she previously did not, or possibly had but was totally concealed behind her eyelashes.

The nose is larger, the mouth shape has changed and I think her jaw is less rounded.

Meanwhile from a profile view, it can be seen that the new model has a more deliberate smiling expression instead of actually having quite a neutral mouth position that somehow gives the feeling of a friendly expression regardless – while still serious enough to not look inappropriate.

I really don't want my character to be smiling when she shouldn't be.

https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/...4563cee15d.jpg


Meanwhile I'm generally having issues in the opposite direction with my male characters looking angrier, except for my Miqo'te who looks spaced out. I've been posting those pictures on other threads but will bring them in here as well later.


Edit: On another look, I don't think the moth has changed position much and yet the expression has changed. I think it's the shadows around the mouth look changed in a way that happens when you draw back your cheek muscles to smile? I've never had to think about the technicalities of expressions so much before as I have in the last few weeks.

I've just arrived to compare my character and I'm posting my highlander here as well to bump this thread.

I am disappointed. Just like Iscah before me, I've deliberately selected this face to look more sharp. And will get a dull doll in Dawntrail.
These don't look the same to me...

before/after
https://i.imgur.com/TFucS1S.png
https://i.imgur.com/ks0ECum.png
https://i.imgur.com/5R5ZSoy.png

The new lighting didn't do anything to fix the issues that I have with the new face 2 for Femroe. I'm honestly so drained from it I don't want to sit here and regather the same feedback I had for the changes again for the new benchmark, at least not right now.

Nothing was really changed. They didn't correct the weird dark pupils, they didn't fix the lip and nose shapes that were changed and they didn't do anything about the faded ash smudge for Hellsguard.

I'm not surprised cause there are just so few Roegadyn players that I knew it wasn't likely they'd gotten enough people speaking up about it for them to put the time and resources into fixing it. I'm immeasurably disappointed though.

Agreed, as posted on a separate thread.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...5abb3109b13bc&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...a31a4c7bb83db&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...9fd0c8935b061&

My lalafell is just constantly jaw out looking like she got stung by bees. Nose isnt a cute bump, but a full length bridge.

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Originally Posted by riani

I've just arrived to compare my character and I'm posting my highlander here as well to bump this thread.

I am disappointed. Just like Iscah before me, I've deliberately selected this face to look more sharp. And will get a dull doll in Dawntrail.
These don't look the same to me...

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You have functionally the same problem face 4 au ra have. A face chosen for looking hawkish, that got rounded off. I found by comparing face 4 au ra to face 1, both in live and the benchmark, that in live, face 4 is narrower with less pronounced cheeks (than face 1,) but it's the inverse in the benchmark. It's slightly wider with much more pronounced cheeks. Unfortunately, we don't have the same characters anymore.

I'm kind of willing to bet the devs finalized the faces back in April, and just weren't willing to fix anything that wasn't blatantly a bug or otherwise unintended, such as cat fangs. It's just such a disappointment.

help my lalafell just constantly looks like a potato

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Originally Posted by lunartears

Some Lalafell observations

I haven't really been keeping up with the Lalafell feedback too heavily but were the multi-light dots seen in the eyes on Dunesfolk in the original benchmark? It can be seen in any direction/lighting at varying levels/amount of reflections. It looks like they've kept the light dot on the eye texture as the original relied upon it but it's a bit off-putting seeing all these dots alongside it.

I also feel like the eyes are notably less glasslike, more darker and the eyelashes seem to be much longer, fading less into the eyelid.

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That's just how they are doing the highlight to the eyes now. Every race has the same highlight instead of slight differences between them. And yes, the glass eye look has been removed as well, which is odd. Dunesfolk are supposed to have that as a clan trait...

So I have made two posts that lists my major gripes toward the old benchmarks: here and here.

Did the benchmark 2.0 solves anything at all? Well maybe... few of them, perhaps. Mostly better lightings and most profound of all, the uncanny dead eyes are no more. Mind you, at least in my case, Benchmark 2.0 >>>>>>>> Benchmark 1.0. But they still haven't solved my other major gripes I don't feel like repeating my points again. Yet I'll still supply perhaps a final comparison from 6.58 to benchmark 2.0:
https://i.postimg.cc/sgwPH8mW/Benchmark-Meh-2-0.png

My two previous posts are still relevant in describing what exactly amiss. HOWEVER, at this point I've come to think that this is just what they've decided how M Middie Face 7 will be, like it or not. This is their design choice. In the events this post somehow gets a read from one of their feedback collector, the tldr is: Either make age slider, or allow M Midlander Face 5 to have additional facial hair option to use M Midlander Face 7's default stubble. No, your lighting fixes will not fix my issues. It has nothing to do with that aspect.

I'd be happier if they just outright tell me they're resculpting face 7 to follow DT Meteor model instead of copy pasting face 5's mesh with stubble added on top of it and lying to me one expansion later it's all lighting and shading/whatchamacallit issue. I'll just revert back to Face 5 if I ain't vibing in DT with Face 7.

I'm just glad they're calling it update instead of upgrade because the changes they did to my characters are awful.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

You have functionally the same problem face 4 au ra have. A face chosen for looking hawkish, that got rounded off. I found by comparing face 4 au ra to face 1, both in live and the benchmark, that in live, face 4 is narrower with less pronounced cheeks (than face 1,) but it's the inverse in the benchmark. It's slightly wider with much more pronounced cheeks. Unfortunately, we don't have the same characters anymore.

I'm kind of willing to bet the devs finalized the faces back in April, and just weren't willing to fix anything that wasn't blatantly a bug or otherwise unintended, such as cat fangs. It's just such a disappointment.

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It feels like many faces with harsher features got smoothed out and lost their "edge". I'm looking at my male viera, face 3, and in 6.58 his features still have a certain sharpness to them, even though I have chosen the "roundest" and "softest" options for that face. He still has a certain sternness about him, esp. with his very pronounced mouth shape.
Now all of that subtle sharpness is gone and he just looks so... There's no definition, his features evoke no strong feelings or any kind of characterisation.
I wish they would have stuck with some edges and sharp shapes.

You all will NEVER be satisfied so it's time to pack it up. Get your fantasia. And be quiet. They aren't going to delay DT over your nitpicking.

Don't like seeing others posts? Don't read it, that easy.

They fixed the lighting in the benchmark and some clear oversights like the hair models

But they didn't address the main concern I had with Miqo'te- their mouths
Almost as if it wasn't "just the lighting" after all...

Very disappointed.
https://i.imgur.com/hf3z3UW.png
https://i.imgur.com/PoENzne.gif
https://i.imgur.com/LPBkLKI.gif

There's a lot wrong with male miqo face 1. My character and his entire personality is dead.

https://i.imgur.com/Pngbvi4.png
https://i.imgur.com/GpjqKsB.png
https://i.imgur.com/gk6uhLv.png

Well, looks like a lot of people will use that free Fantasia instantly. My Character still looks about the same. His expression just seemed to be more confident now. My Wife though switched from Fem Hyur Face 1 to Fem Viera and now has the same dark skin as i have. Pitch black Characters do not seem to have as many issues with the new update as most other skin colors.

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Originally Posted by Araxes

Well, looks like a lot of people will use that free Fantasia instantly. My Character still looks about the same. His expression just seemed to be more confident now. My Wife though switched from Fem Hyur Face 1 to Fem Viera and now has the same dark skin as i have. Pitch black Characters do not seem to have as many issues with the new update as most other skin colors.

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My character(s) can't even be adjusted to look the way he used to. The options are just completely gone. Absolutely fucked over.

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Originally Posted by Windfire

Don't like seeing others posts? Don't read it, that easy.

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Honestly, unsurprising coming from them. Considering they were the one who made this thread shortly after first wave of benchmark 1.0 uproar happened.... yeah, not surprising lol.

Ignore and keep the feedbacks rolling in, folks.

I posted this in the other thread as well, but here's a comparison photo of my character. They completely changed his eyes, nose and shape of his face/head. I just want my old character back.
L.E : His face is a lot more rounder in the cutscenes, it almost looks bloated.

https://i.imgur.com/7r7eFup.jpg