What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

You know who else got more or less killed off at the end of their game?

Tidus in FFX, when the Fayth are finally awakened from their dreams and he fades away along with Auron and Jecht.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

You know who else got more or less killed off at the end of their game?

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There's a chance some people in here might want to play other FF games you know.

FFX was released nearly 21 years ago, buzz off.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

'Artificial'? How so?
I was under the impression that it is rather widely considered to be one of the most shocking and iconic video game scenes to date.

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If you have played the original Japanese version and you can see she is very out of character there.
The entire "she need to die to join life stream in order to counter Meteor" is just an aftermath made up story because gaming industry do not have DLC technology yet.
Ancient in the original Japanese text clearly indicating they have ability connect to life stream without death.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm not entirely convinced that such a theory holds, given that a number of posters commenting within this thread and others have a join date that suggests that they are, in fact, not just riding the recent tide of 'refugees' from WoW.
I don't think many people are arguing in favour of black and white morality, either - but more so actual stakes for the protagonists and lasting consequences.

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Yet, every complaint is showing they want an epic end fight with Zodiac (big evil dude) and Scion death (one of key character death)
It is same poor WoW style of storytelling copy and paste into their expansion.

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I disagree. I'd attribute the storytelling in previous expansions to be in line with previous Final Fantasy games, though the franchise has never really shied away from meaningful consequences. Both the early and more recent games have examples of major characters dying, settlements being wiped off the map and so on - whilst not limiting such things almost exclusively to the antagonists.

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Yet through out entire FF franchise none of the main cast is killed off except Aerith's artificial death (FF7R is retcon her death)
FF12 has highest review among NA community and it does not need to kill one of their main cast isn't it?
FF10 retcon Tidus's death and not to mention to entire FF13 series with Lightening.
You don't need artificial death to tell a good story.

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Such is subjective, I believe. WoW's storytelling had many flaws but many of the characters felt distinct to me at the height of their respective story arcs. The Scions, meanwhile, strike me as very bland. They don't often express much agency of their own and often exist in the present day to fawn over the player character.

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Is it?
WoW's story telling has been bad since TBC and only was ignored by fanboys because Blizzard was at their peak.
There are countless complaints over the lore in past years.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

He says that but that’s with things occurring my how they did. Had Venat actually told them everything and didn’t kept secrets, things could’ve gone in a completely different direction and the ancients might’ve actually stood a chance. As for the Aerith comment, i’ll point you to ff13-2 and ff15. Both games that ended up killing off the main protagonists at the end of the game, not in the middle. So there’s really no excuse.Its especially bad when they keep resorting to emotional manipulation when they talk about people theyve lost and its the same 3-4 faces from 3 expansions ago because they dont have anyone else to pick from lmao.

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Agreed - they had plenty of potential avenues to explore. 8 and a bit sundered suffice to bring her down. To me there is nothing to suggest they could not, in all that time, devise suitable methods to counter her with the knowledge in their hands. So while Emet does say that, to me it's not significant other than as a means of reconciling the two by the end.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

To my knowledge though, i dont recall 1 and 3 being the most talked about. But character deaths moving the story starts as early as ff2. FF7 is one of the most talked about ones and it had a very iconic character death that drove the story forward.We dont know where the remake is going truth be told. For all we know they could be giving people false hope and in the end itll turn out exactly how it did before if not worse. FF6's most iconic moment is the world coming to ruin. I dont think its a coincidence that the popular and rated series is the same series that deals an awful lot with death and suffering and again, please tell me then how im expected to take a theme about loss,suffering, and moving on seriously if it never applies to the main cast and in fact, the main cast contradicts said theme and actually gets resurrected. Something even you said earlier ruined WoW. 14 did the very same thing.Personally i think whats artificial is constant death fakeouts and constant fluff in a world ending situation. The world is ending meanwhile im going on a lunch date with people and supposed to laugh because a catboy ate a burger and an elf lady doesnt like pickles? Such tension, such threat. Lets not forget playing dress up with bunnies less than 5 minutes after slaying the god who was the only thing keeping the planet safe.

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FF14 did killed off main Scions and there is no need to kill one Scion each expansion just for dramatic effect.
In the history of FF, the only main playable character death is Aerith and even that seems going to be retcon by FF7R.
FF12 has highest feedback among NA players and this story does not requires story to kill off a main playable characters.
There are other examples like FF10 and FF13 with Tidus and Lightening.
You probably should realize it by now only reason Aerith stay dead is only because gaming industry does not have technology of DLC.
The moment they have the ability to make dlc or ep2 they immediately retcon Tidus' death.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

If you have played the original Japanese version and you can see she is very out of character there.
The entire "she need to die to join life stream in order to counter Meteor" is just an aftermath made up story because gaming industry do not have DLC technology yet.
Ancient in the original Japanese text clearly indicating they have ability connect to life stream without death.



Yet, every complaint is showing they want an epic end fight with Zodiac (big evil dude) and Scion death (one of key character death)
It is same poor WoW style of storytelling copy and paste into their expansion.



Yet through out entire FF franchise none of the main cast is killed off except Aerith's artificial death (FF7R is retcon her death)
FF12 has highest review among NA community and it does not need to kill one of their main cast isn't it?
FF10 retcon Tidus's death and not to mention to entire FF13 series with Lightening.
You don't need artificial death to tell a good story.




Is it?
WoW's story telling has been bad since TBC and only was ignored by fanboys because Blizzard was at their peak.
There are countless complaints over the lore in past years.

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Just as theres been complaints with 14’s lore for the past years. One of the things you literally bashed WoW’s story for is something 14 did this very expansion, so why the double standard? As for main cast, you seem to have forgotten a main cast member that dies in ff5. Or in FF4. Or in FF type 0. Or in FF15. Just to name a few. FF12 opens up with two fairly prominent character deaths that are what moves the story forward. Not to mention they do actually kill off 2 characters who join your party for a time. It’s really not a good idea to try to use past ff’s as examples because most of them take risks that 14 just doesn’t at all. I’ve played all of them, i know how they work. I know what happens in them. Hence why i can tell you death and consequences and destruction is a very clear staple among them.Its not so much asking for a scion death every expansion as it is to have stakes and consequences in the story. We were literally facing an apocalypse that not even ancient god-like beings survived. The planet got decimated. Yet we end up literally perfectly fine. Same goes for ShB where we fight against said god-like beings and only win the first fight due to plot armor and an asspull. That does not make a good story. All of the other ff games ive mentioned with actual deaths and consequences show correctly that no matter if youre the hero or not, youre not invincible. You're not going to always win. 14 has been lately, we always win. We can do no wrong, everything goes our way no matter what. Them creating a few nameless npcs just to be killed off doesnt change that. Not to mention that was literally at the most in two areas. While thavnair and garlemald are suffering we're having a lunch date.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

WoW's story telling has been bad since TBC and only was ignored by fanboys because Blizzard was at their peak.

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Yes, a good lesson to draw upon and avoid in this game - to not let the fanboys squelch criticism. Complacence breeds such problems and I am glad people are voicing their discontent at how they used time travel in this expansion, and other aspects.

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Originally Posted by Scryar

You know what is artificial.
That there is a world ending threat and there are zero causalities on the "good guys" side aside from a few throwaway characters.
That the enemies of team WOL fall left and right but we somehow get through all that mainly unharmed.
Zenos absolutely should have killed someone. This whole scene was sabotaged by the ending of nothing happening.

After Heavenward for a character to die
a) they have to be a "baddie"
b ) if they are not , they have to be a minor character.

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Artificial death refers to a game character suddenly behaves out of character and performed something because plot demands to.
Aerith from FF7 original was the first and Joe from Last of US 2 was the second, these 2 are the best examples.

What zero causalities you are referring to?
People are died left and right in entire Endwalker.
Are you ignoring the death of sisters because they don't trust you means nothing?
A child turned into a monster and got stomped to death in front of his own father is not consider as tragedy to you just because you want blood of Scion?

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Originally Posted by Floortank

I read books as part of my profession and I've been with the Final Fantasy franchise for over twenty years. I have written a book about the series, in pre publication. I do not have nearly as much to say about World of Warcraft. Your argument here is simply false.

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Personal opinion is always subjective and I never expect you to agree and I was simply summary the trend of this thread. People want same old style of WoW storytelling vs modern Japanese story telling.

I do not think Fandaniel is even mean to be the main villian like Emet in Shadowbringer. He is just a trigger character to connect each arc and that is why his death is so early.

You need to thinsk Meteion is a replica of Sisters from the anime "A Certain magical Index" You can not see her by herself but need to view her entire Meterion network as a character. Yes, she is not par with Emet only because we spent merely one chpater with her but we sepnt whole expansion with Emet. I don't think her story has ended and there are more to come to see her true character development.

Zenos, be honest, it is each of our own. I am honestly yawning every time he shows up. To me, he is just a tsudare character pretty much yellowing "Please notice me Senpai" Our conclusion with him is already at its best.