We are in need of a official response to the healer situation

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Originally Posted by Gaethan_Tessula

So, again, a lot of that particular response of mine was aimed towards people discouraging another poster from letting the discussion here influence their thoughts/advocating blanket distrust of outside opinions. In isolation from the game.

Of course, your point is likely "if you typically trust expert consensus, why don't you trust Mr. Happy et al.'s take?" It's a decent one to make. Quick confession: I am not a master healer in this game. I know I'm not good enough to do Ultimate, and have no desire to waste my and other's time failing at it. I therefore wound up falling out of my static this expansion after O4S because I didn't want to prog UCoB (also, I had to finish graduate work and adjust to post-grad life). So Mr. Happy is by FAR a more accomplished and skilled player than I.

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Here's my issue with that line of thought tho. In that same podcast Mr.Happy DID have a healer main on that show and he said the same thing. So ok you can side step why Mr Happy said what he said - even tho he played 5.0 - but how do you explain healer mains saying the same thing he said? Is that not enough for you to say.. " maybe I should wait and not freak out cause I didn't play it and someone with WAY more experience and skill isn't going crazy? " That's my issue with all the freak out. When 5.0 is out and it's busted then sure.. scream loud and proud. screaming NOW before you've touched the job does nothing. Even if you're RIGHT they aren't going to change anything until AFTER it's out anyway. It just looks like people want to scream for screaming sake instead of waiting until you have hands on. I don't understand people honestly. I'm not happy with monk but I'm goign to wait until I get my hands on it cause nothing is goign to change before anyway.

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

Very well said.

I seriously don't understand why this is such a controversial topic for some people.

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Because people like to scream for screaming sake without gettign their hands on FIRST? Like you even admited too doing in that astro thread a few weeks ago.

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Originally Posted by Insertcoins

Here's my issue with that line of thought tho. In that same podcast Mr.Happy DID have a healer main on that show and he said the same thing. So ok you can side step why Mr Happy said what he said - even tho he played 5.0 - but how do you explain healer mains saying the same thing he said? Is that not enough for you to say.. " maybe I should wait and not freak out cause I didn't play it and someone with WAY more experience and skill isn't going crazy? " That's my issue with all the freak out. When 5.0 is out and it's busted then sure.. scream loud and proud. screaming NOW before you've touched the job does nothing. Even if you're RIGHT they aren't going to change anything until AFTER it's out anyway. It just looks like people want to scream for screaming sake instead of waiting until you have hands on. I don't understand people honestly. I'm not happy with monk but I'm goign to wait until I get my hands on it cause nothing is goign to change before anyway.

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Which healer mains? Admittedly, I've only seen some 6 of them go over the changes in detail, but of those not one seemed happy about the skill reductions. Most just ended on a note something like "Better hope there really is going to be that increase in damage, unlike what we see from the initial dungeon testing, or healer's going to get notably more dull," and sometimes a further "To be fair, healing itself is pretty dull anyways because very few actions interconnect without demanding that they be entirely banked and bursted together (as in Collective Unconscious); there's no happy medium at present that can be used to make healing kits feel more interesting."

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Which healer mains? Admittedly, I've only seen some 6 of them go over the changes in detail, but of those not one seemed happy about the skill reductions. Most just ended on a note something like "Better hope there really is going to be that increase in damage, unlike what we see from the initial dungeon testing, or healer's going to get notably more dull," and sometimes a further "To be fair, healing itself is pretty dull anyways because very few actions interconnect without demanding that they be entirely banked and bursted together (as in Collective Unconscious); there's no happy medium at present that can be used to make healing kits feel more interesting."

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I forget one of their names but Momo also agreed with Mr happy on the changes. But Momo and someone else were on a show and both said they are waiting for the raids to make a full judgement. Sly who isn't a healer main mind everyone was the only one on the podcast who was flat out unhappy about the changes but he couldn't explain why. My biggest and only point is this, I'm willing to wait til I get my hands on it. I'll use MNK as my example as that's my main since I started this game 3 years ago.

With PB being back on a 2 min cooldown, TK still being useless, the fist stances STILL being in the game while only making one of them useable, Riddle of fire being still in along with even the more useless riddle of earth makes me seriously want to throw the job out. Like I GET it, I get the unhappyiness. But what I'm not going to do is scream moan and cry and BOYCOTT like I don't have a clue. There's nothing wrong with being unhappy with the changes, but is it so wrong to wait until you get your hands on it? Thats what the media people are saying you do.

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Originally Posted by Insertcoins

Here's my issue with that line of thought tho. In that same podcast Mr.Happy DID have a healer main on that show and he said the same thing. So ok you can side step why Mr Happy said what he said - even tho he played 5.0 - but how do you explain healer mains saying the same thing he said? Is that not enough for you to say.. " maybe I should wait and not freak out cause I didn't play it and someone with WAY more experience and skill isn't going crazy? " That's my issue with all the freak out. When 5.0 is out and it's busted then sure.. scream loud and proud. screaming NOW before you've touched the job does nothing. Even if you're RIGHT they aren't going to change anything until AFTER it's out anyway. It just looks like people want to scream for screaming sake instead of waiting until you have hands on. I don't understand people honestly. I'm not happy with monk but I'm goign to wait until I get my hands on it cause nothing is goign to change before anyway.

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That same healer main, while saying WHM pdps is "bonkers", SCH is "fine" and AST is "dead (he was partially joking, but only partially)" also said they're going to be boring on his analysis of healers-- a reason many of us are upset.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Which healer mains? Admittedly, I've only seen some 6 of them go over the changes in detail, but of those not one seemed happy about the skill reductions. Most just ended on a note something like "Better hope there really is going to be that increase in damage, unlike what we see from the initial dungeon testing, or healer's going to get notably more dull," and sometimes a further "To be fair, healing itself is pretty dull anyways because very few actions interconnect without demanding that they be entirely banked and bursted together (as in Collective Unconscious); there's no happy medium at present that can be used to make healing kits feel more interesting."

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One was FFXIVMOMO. I don't remember who the second one was.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Imagine thinking you'll be going 90 seconds without ever casting a single GCD heal.

That's the only scenario where Misery is a damage loss.

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I ran Hullbreaker Isle today on WHM and went through the entire second boss without casting a single heal spell. Not one. Not even regen. I was forced to spam Stone and Aero because there was literally nothing to heal.

That’s longer than 90 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

That same healer main, while saying WHM pdps is "bonkers", SCH is "fine" and AST is "dead (he was partially joking, but only partially)" also said they're going to be boring on his analysis of healers-- a reason many of us are upset.

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They all also based their opinions of the assumption damage will increase to some extent. They've all acknowledged if nothing changes regarding outgoing damage, it will be pretty disappointing for healers.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

One was FFXIVMOMO. I don't remember who the second one was.

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Tate, who plays healers and has cleared Final. He isn't a healer main, however.

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Originally Posted by DiznypKC

I ran Hullbreaker Isle today on WHM and went through the entire second boss without casting a single heal spell. Not one. Not even regen. I was forced to spam Stone and Aero because there was literally nothing to heal.

That’s longer than 90 seconds.

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I'm not saying you're lying, but I am saying you don't have proof. Some have made the same claim you have, but when empirical evidence is available, it's shown otherwise.

And that's partially where I'm having issues here. Why do some (not you specifically) of you exaggerate your own performance? Does admitting that you do use a GCD to heal make you less of a player?

Using specifically the Afflatus skill line, the only thing that could improve it is giving it a weaker-than-Glare single target "Black Lily" version, but even if that were not given, there's still plenty of areas where GCD healing occurs that you could utilize Afflatus spells and not "lose damage" because you needed to GCD heal anyways.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

They all also based their opinions of the assumption damage will increase to some extent. They've all acknowledged if nothing changes regarding outgoing damage, it will be pretty disappointing for healers.

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Exactly. And so far, everything we've seen so far doesn't support damage going up in any significant amount. Even if we take Titania E3 as ez mode, we also have to keep in mind many of those attempts were also first attempts so we'd expect them to be taking more damage than normal from not knowing the fight/mechanics and healers were still having plenty of healing downtime to do DPSing according to people who went there. This means: already boring solo play, disappointing raid play, OK dungeon play depending on which healer you're playing. WHM dungeons seems pretty much the same, but I'm not so sure about SCH... AST has always been dull soloing, but with cards less interesting I feel it may be a little meh in dungeons too. =/

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I'm not saying you're lying, but I am saying you don't have proof. Some have made the same claim you have, but when empirical evidence is available, it's shown otherwise.

And that's partially where I'm having issues here. Why do some (not you specifically) of you exaggerate your own performance? Does admitting that you do use a GCD to heal make you less of a player?

Using specifically the Afflatus skill line, the only thing that could improve it is giving it a weaker-than-Glare single target "Black Lily" version, but even if that were not given, there's still plenty of areas where GCD healing occurs that you could utilize Afflatus spells and not "lose damage" because you needed to GCD heal anyways.

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You could also do "Afflatus Heal -> Upgraded instas-cast DPS basics mininukes and feed blood lilly -> x3 -> Afflatus Misery Big Nuke."

I actually like the idea behind the new lilly system. Find best place to drop the GCD heal, get big damage later. I just wish it was more involved than 1 payoff per 90 seconds, and that it was actually a net gain over stone spam instead of a partial refund.