[dev1206] Class Reforms & Action Lists

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Originally Posted by Griss

Oh yea i definitely have some ideas rolling around in my head. Just need the opportunity to get in and roll around in it to see what works and was dose not.

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Can't wait to mess around as well Griss!

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Originally Posted by JGwinters

I may have missed it. Please point me to the abilities where LNC manages the enemy's TP? :confused: All I see is player-TP management. You didn't touch on any other support abilities so I guess I won't go into that.

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if I meant enemy TP management I would have said enemy TP management, but right now with the Ifrit fight you do absolutely zero enemy TP management, and though we are loosing moonrise and twisting vice I dont consider that the fundamental play style of a lancer. Lancer IMO is a Mid ranged damage dealer, we just also had the ability to slow down and remove TP from the enemy which really isn't needed anymore.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

CNJ mainly cures now. It will mainly cure after the patch. No change.
THM use roughly the same nukes over and over. They will have more variety after the patch. They still nuke. No change.
GLA isn't used for anything but tanking now. After the patch, they will still be tanking. No change.
PGL is used as a melee DD right now. After the patch, they will have the OPTION of adding elemental damage. They are still a melee DD. No change.
LNC is a melee DD right now. After the patch, they will do more damage. They are still a melee DD. No change.
MRD is a hybrid tank/DD right now. After the patch, they will still be a hybrid tank/DD. No change.

The mechanics of the class are changing. The fundamentals of the class are not. They are adjusting the mechanics of class skills. Not how the class plays.

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How dare you remain calm and use logic. ;)

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Originally Posted by Kiote

That does not mean we don't care how these changes effect people who come after us.

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"How it effects people who come after us?"

What are you going on about? New players aren't going to have any problem acclimating to something that will be set in stone before they even start and is thus normal.

Everyone else who has rank 50's won't have a problem because they'll still be able to cross class a bunch of abilities anyway.

You and anyone else lose nothing.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Classes are supposed to be for solo play. That is why he said he was not going to Change the Way they Played. These changes lean them so far toward Party play that soloing is going to be FFXI level ridiculous. Especially since all the skills you could cross class to make Soloing easier are now Class exclusive.

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Blood bath, Foresight, Invigorate, feather foot, Cure, Second wind, Sentinal, Basic nukes. All still very cross class-able. Hell in some cases there will be new options open to solo players.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

CNJ mainly cures now. It will mainly cure after the patch. No change.
THM use roughly the same nukes over and over. They will have more variety after the patch. They still nuke. No change.
GLA isn't used for anything but tanking now. After the patch, they will still be tanking. No change.
PGL is used as a melee DD right now. After the patch, they will have the OPTION of adding elemental damage. They are still a melee DD. No change.
LNC is a melee DD right now. After the patch, they will do more damage. They are still a melee DD. No change.
MRD is a hybrid tank/DD right now. After the patch, they will still be a hybrid tank/DD. No change.

The mechanics of the class are changing. The fundamentals of the class are not. They are adjusting the mechanics of class skills. Not how the class plays.

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YOu have describe the Party roles of every Class. Solo Combat is what classes are for and they operate completely differently. You cannot honestly believe that Conjurers Soloed by "Mostly Healing"

Gladiators specialized in Reactive WSs and Shutting down enemy abilities. They now have No offensive Skills

Lancer was a Tactical fighter with a steady defense. They are now all out DD with no Tactics or Defense

Conjurer was an Run and Gun nuker who specialized in mitigating Damage and elemental magic. They now heal.

Thaumaturge specialized in Enfeeballing and Nuking to take down enemies and absord spells to boost their skills. Now they nuke.

Archer was a heavy ranged DD that specialized in precision and control. Now they are an abomination that dont even get to chose the rate at which they expend there arrows.. Infinite quiver is just a step away.

MRD and PUG are the only two classes that have escaped most unscathed. Except now PUG has the useless ability to attach fire to its melee attacks. A skill that will do nothing considering very few enemies in this game are weak to fire and elemental dmg does nothing to increase potency without elemental weakness.

Also, did anyone notice Water doesn't exist anymore?

Looking at the mage classes... Honestly, they look like good classes, I will say that.

The Black Mage and the class its derived from certainly look neat. It's interesting how the three elements seem to have their place: fire for crowds, lightning for spike damage, and ice for movement-altering utility. It's set up in a pretty easy-to-understand and familiar manner in which players can look at them and say "Hey, this is pretty familiar, I know what to do with these."

The White Mage and its original class seem to fit in with a woodsy place; the Aero-Tornado combo and the Stone-Quake combo (will those remain the spell names?) both look like they could be fun uses of my MP for when I'm not actively healing, and those are good, appropriate elements for nature-loving tree-huggers. Very druidic, not bad, but I'd have loved to see water, my favorite element, represented.

That being said...

I'm seriously concerned. Where's the class that "possesses the ability to call forth and command the latent aether within oneself through deep introspection" and has a mastery over "powers of life, death, and the beyond"? What happened to the class that "calls upon elemental forces present in nature"? Why is the job/class that's all about preserving one's life force and raising the dead based "where the voices of Eorzea's elementals are said to be most powerful" while the elemental nuker comes from a temple and ossuary, a place meant to serve as the final resting place of a person's remains?

If we're getting such drastic class changes in 1.20, it had better come with equally drastic changes to the guilds, the quests, the story...

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

"How it effects people who come after us?"

What are you going on about? New players aren't going to have any problem acclimating to something that will be set in stone before they even start and is thus normal.

Everyone else who has rank 50's won't have a problem because they'll still be able to cross class a bunch of abilities anyway.

You and anyone else lose nothing.

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It's not about acclimation. That the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It's about being a Good game.

Highly restricted Solo classes defeat the entire purpose of this game.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

if I meant enemy TP management I would have said enemy TP management, but right now with the Ifrit fight you do absolutely zero enemy TP management, and though we are loosing moonrise and twisting vice I dont consider that the fundamental play style of a lancer. Lancer IMO is a Mid ranged damage dealer, we just also had the ability to slow down and remove TP from the enemy which really isn't needed anymore.

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I see, so that's your playstyle. Unfortunately for me mine seems to differ from the style majority has used. :( I guess that's understandable considering I don't really do endgame, so my priorities and needs tend to differ from those who only consider specific endgame fights.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Also, did anyone notice Water doesn't exist anymore?

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Yeah, right around the same time I noticed that 50 isn't going to be our max level forever and with more levels comes more skills, spells and abilities.