3.2 Patch Notes

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Sorry, but if I have those tools, I'm going to use them because they are part of my class and using them is how to properly play it. You can keep being one of those bards who refuse to sing when people are shouting in party or raid for a song, but meanwhile I'm going to be actually contributing with my support skills when needed. Otherwise I shouldn't have had them on my class.

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If the healer asked to turn it off than that means the healer doesn't need it. Therefore it would be better to turn it off to deal more damage and kills things faster. If the healer messes up that's on the healer. It has nothing to do with other bards refusing to sing when it is actually needed. There are no hybrids, every other dps has support skills that they can utilize when its necessary. As DPS you're there to have the mindset of finding out what is the most effective way to put out the most damage you can do.

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Originally Posted by DGladius

If the healer asked to turn it off than that means the healer doesn't need it. Therefore it would be better to turn it off to deal more damage and kills things faster. If the healer messes up that's on the healer. It has nothing to do with other bards refusing to sing when it is actually needed. There are no hybrids, every other dps has support skills that they can utilize when its necessary. As DPS you're there to have the mindset of finding out what is the most effective way to put out the most damage you can do.

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Or it means the healer is too focused on dpsing to worry about wiping (seen this more times than I care for). As a DPS who has to wait in queue for over 30 minutes sometimes, I care whether we wipe or not. If playing a song for what amounts to a single minute most of the time, can prevent a wipe, then I will do so and cover the hit to my damage as best I can until I can turn it off.

I know how best to play my own class, and I will worry about how best to contribute with my own class's skills, whether that be maximizing my dps or using my supportive skills that were put on my class by the developers.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Or it means the healer is too focused on dpsing to worry about wiping (seen this more times than I care for). As a DPS who has to wait in queue for over 30 minutes sometimes, I care whether we wipe or not. If playing a song for what amounts to a single minute most of the time, can prevent a wipe, then I will do so and cover the hit to my damage as best I can until I can turn it off.

I know how best to play my own class, and I will worry about how best to contribute with my own class's skills, whether that be maximizing my dps or using my supportive skills that were put on my class by the developers.

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The thing is, a healer also doesn't want to wipe. If they said that, they're likely OK. Most of us have played more than one class and have a good idea how it all works.

Beyond that, you mention ""healer is too focused on dpsing to worry about wiping (seen this more times than I care for)" and then mention "I know how best to play my own class". Either you should accept that people are able to properly judge other members of the party (you judging healers for focusing too much DPS) or accept that they know how to play best their class using the skills that was given them by the developers.

Playing Ballad could save a wipe, but it could also cause a wipe.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Playing Ballad could save a wipe, but it could also cause a wipe.

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.... That makes no sense. When has playing a song ever caused a wipe? I've never seen it myself - I don't even know how that'd be possible in non-hardcore content. If a party wipes just because a Bard turned on Mage's Ballad, I think the issue lies with the group itself rather than just the bard.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

I know how best to play my own class, and I will worry about how best to contribute with my own class's skills, whether that be maximizing my dps or using my supportive skills that were put on my class by the developers.

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I understand you know how to play your class. I also like that you have admitted to playing songs without the need to be asked for them as I believe every bard should be.

However couldn't your claim of I know how best to play my own class be used against you? Wouldn't the healer know when they needed MP more than you would know?

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Or it means the healer is too focused on dpsing to worry about wiping (seen this more times than I care for). As a DPS who has to wait in queue for over 30 minutes sometimes, I care whether we wipe or not. If playing a song for what amounts to a single minute most of the time, can prevent a wipe, then I will do so and cover the hit to my damage as best I can until I can turn it off.

I know how best to play my own class, and I will worry about how best to contribute with my own class's skills, whether that be maximizing my dps or using my supportive skills that were put on my class by the developers.

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but the same developers put Cleric stance and Stone 3 on that healer....that is probably dpsing because the mobs are going down slow

if the healer is 60 for sure knows where to stop dpsing , no healers count on Brds to regen their mp all the time because thats a healer thing (and to be fair every1 manages their own mp , u have ballad to restore MP on long battles not on dps healers that run out of mp because they like to nuke until mp hits 0 )

if a healers is dpsing and not healing nothing can save that party ...not even infinite MP , plus u asume that the healers doesnt know better. I know that when i play my sch (and i know the boss encounter) when to dps and when to heal , and how low i can go with my own mp before i need to stop.

think about for a min a party of tank , melee , bard (you) , healer , boss fight , why you would cast MP song here? u are losing 15% dmg because that , wouldnt be better if u cast FOE so the healers does more dmg? and u lose nothing casting foe (+BV), if the healers runs out of MP for nuking is the damn healer fault , no1 can blame a bard on that....

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Originally Posted by Andrea

I understand you know how to play your class. I also like that you have admitted to playing songs without the need to be asked for them as I believe every bard should be.

However couldn't your claim of I know how best to play my own class be used against you? Wouldn't the healer know when they needed MP more than you would know?

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Usually if a healer does tell me to turn it off after a reasonable amount of time has passed, I assume they'll be fine and/or their own regens are back up (particularly with SCH). It's only when they're almost completely depleted of MP that I kind of ??? at them for telling me to turn Ballad off just because of the slight hit to my dps (after I've already turned on cooldowns and have Battle Voice up so that the regen goes faster and thus lets me drop it quicker). At that point it makes little sense to me as both a bard and as someone who's played a healer and knows each healer's mana regen abilities and how long they take to act.

Basically if someone is telling me to turn it off when their MP is in a reasonable or manageable state, I will. If their MP is almost gone and I literally just turned on Ballad and popped cooldowns and their MP is still too low for comfort, that's when I don't because to me, it feels like a bad idea. I know how to play my class, but I can't always say the same for others - is the gist of it.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

think about for a min a party of tank , melee , bard (you) , healer , boss fight , why you would cast MP song here? u are losing 15% dmg because that , wouldnt be better if u cast FOE so the healers does more dmg? and u lose nothing casting foe (+BV), if the healers runs out of MP for nuking is the damn healer fault , no1 can blame a bard on that....

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.... If the healer is prioritizing dpsing over healing the tank, I'm not going to give them Foe's. Half the time I never have Foe's up in a group with no mages because I'm there assuming the healer will primarily focus on their main job - which is healing. Just as I primarily focus on my main job, which is dpsing - until such a time as I need to use one of my support skills to assist someone (usually the healer) with regenerative abilities.

I'd be casting MP song so the healer has enough MP to actually heal the tank, rather than encouraging them to keep dpsing and ignoring the tank's health by having Foe's up.

And once again, I can easily make up for the hit a Ballad takes on my damage by popping cooldowns when I have to drop into it. Most of the time I rarely have to keep Ballad up for more than a few seconds before the healer's good on MP and I can turn it off and return to doing my highest output.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

.... That makes no sense. When has playing a song ever caused a wipe? I've never seen it myself - I don't even know how that'd be possible in non-hardcore content. If a party wipes just because a Bard turned on Mage's Ballad, I think the issue lies with the group itself rather than just the bard.

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Look, I am not trying to attack your play. I am simply trying to give you another perspective.

As for your question, I've never seen Ballad prevent a wipe outside of a raid either. Both are possible and both are uncommon. A bard turning on ballad loses 1 GCD + a 20% damage reduction, which is a fairly significant damage loss. If it's close, that damage could mean the difference between clearing and not. Though again, both are pretty rare circumstances and I've never witnessed either.

Reading all this kinda makes me scared to level my bard any further. It sounds FAR too complicated, even if I have no plans to go for anything harder than the regular instances I need for the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Look, I am not trying to attack your play. I am simply trying to give you another perspective.

As for your question, I've never seen Ballad prevent a wipe outside of a raid either. Both are possible and both are implausible. A bard turning on ballad loses 1 GCD + a 20% damage reduction, which is a fairly significant damage loss. If it's close, that damage could mean the difference between clearing and not. Though again, both are pretty rare circumstances and I've never witnessed either.

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I didn't think you were, I was just a bit flabbergasted at the thought that Ballad could ever cause a wipe. I have seen it prevent wipes, however (if by a very narrow margin). As for the damage loss, as I keep saying - that's what cooldowns are good for, making up some lost damage when necessary, in addition to heightening regular damage when not singing.

Usually the sort of thing you're speaking of is only an issue in the harder content such as EX primals/Thordan and Alexander, though. I've never seen a bard dropping into a song completely screw over a group's dps in non-hardcore content - and frankly since I avoid Alexander like the plague, I don't feel the issues you're speaking of apply to my everyday dungeon runs, is all I'm saying.