Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Lore reasons are alive in this thread again? @_@

I'm lazy enough to check unclear amount of pages to find the start of it, so could somebody explain in short what's going on?

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I shall be your guide! The commentary that brought this was about RP / Making a male viera out of a female model. Lore wise, the viera males have not left the jungle yet. I say yet because it could one day change. However, after being told this, the person then tried to disprove male Hrothgar being able to be RP'd, which makes little sense since SE actually introduced the males. That's basically it.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Lore reasons are alive in this thread again? @_@

I'm lazy enough to check unclear amount of pages to find the start of it, so could somebody explain in short what's going on?

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Arngrim was just making the point that based on present lore, the males don't leave the Wood, thus attempting to play even through another model one runs counter to that. It's not so much an argument against adding them due to the lore.

...and he posted just as I did. :p

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Arngrim was just making the point that based on present lore, the males don't leave the Wood, thus attempting to play even through another model one runs counter to that. It's not so much an argument against adding them due to the lore.

...and he posted just as I did. :p

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Yeah, I'm good at that. Or you are. One of us is. Either way, Lauront is correct! Nothing is against their addition, just that the lore, as it currently stands, does not include them for a viable character. If it did, we'd probably have the males already!

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

I shall be your guide! The commentary that brought this was about RP / Making a male viera out of a female model. Lore wise, the viera males have not left the jungle yet. I say yet because it could one day change. However, after being told this, the person then tried to disprove male Hrothgar being able to be RP'd, which makes little sense since SE actually introduced the males. That's basically it.

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Ah, I see. Thanks a lot!

Well, we could argue about RPing Hrothgars in terms of their population after some events but... well, we don't really know much about their lore either. And about The Lost clan we don't really know anything except their description since GNB guys are Helions. So until the moment we know more info people could RP however they want and just adjust their backstories later, imo.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Ah, I see. Thanks a lot!

Well, we could argue about RPing Hrothgars in terms of their population after some events but... well, we don't really know much about their lore either. And about The Lost clan we don't really know anything except their description since GNB guys are Helions. So until the moment we know more info people could RP however they want and just adjust their backstories later, imo.

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For Hrothgar, that's fairly accurate! The women are in question and off the table, for obvious reasons, and the males are pretty free to be RP'd. Just other female viera are perfectly okay to be RP'd since their lore exists for that. But the Helions are in a bit of a pickle from the sound of things in the Gunbreaker storyline. I'm interested to learn more about them all, viera and Hrothgar alike.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Ah, I see. Thanks a lot!

Well, we could argue about RPing Hrothgars in terms of their population after some events but... well, we don't really know much about their lore either. And about The Lost clan we don't really know anything except their description since GNB guys are Helions. So until the moment we know more info people could RP however they want and just adjust their backstories later, imo.

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tbh, hrotgar race lore is extremely dissapointing and luck.luster, hence why I think we will go to theri homeland on 6.0 and meet many hrotgar bois and queens, and we will likely learn a lot about them

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Originally Posted by zeylos

tbh, hrotgar race lore is extremely dissapointing and luck.luster, hence why I think we will go to theri homeland on 6.0 and meet many hrotgar bois and queens, and we will likely learn a lot about them

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For now they only thing that really confuses me in their lore is "females are extremely rare". My eyebrows almost left my face when tried to rise high enough to represent amount of my questions about this fact. This is the silliest thing you ever could write for the lore, biologically wise mostly and until recently FFXIV seemed to follow irl biology more or less accurate so... I have some questions, SE story writing team.

Outside of this I couldn't say I'm any disappointed because we didn't really see anything about them. And even the lore for Vieras isn't really relevant because it's for The First - but this is at least some info to work with.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

tbh, hrotgar race lore is extremely dissapointing and luck.luster, hence why I think we will go to theri homeland on 6.0 and meet many hrotgar bois and queens, and we will likely learn a lot about them

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I see little reason to be so negative about them. They are interesting and add a new element to the game.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

tbh, hrotgar race lore is extremely dissapointing and luck.luster, hence why I think we will go to theri homeland on 6.0 and meet many hrotgar bois and queens, and we will likely learn a lot about them

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They only have one Queen, I believe.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

For now they only thing that really confuses me in their lore is "females are extremely rare". My eyebrows almost left my face when tried to rise high enough to represent amount of my questions about this fact. This is the silliest thing you ever could write for the lore, biologically wise mostly and until recently FFXIV seemed to follow irl biology more or less accurate so... I have some questions, SE story writing team.

Outside of this I couldn't say I'm any disappointed because we didn't really see anything about them. And even the lore for Vieras isn't really relevant because it's for The First - but this is at least some info to work with.

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I believe I read somewhere that the birth rate of females in Hrothgar society are extremely low, thus the lack of them. I'll have to dig around once I'm off work to see if I can remember where I read it, and if it's credible and not just someone's reddit headcanon or something. I'll let you know if I find something!

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Originally Posted by Halivel

For now they only thing that really confuses me in their lore is "females are extremely rare". My eyebrows almost left my face when tried to rise high enough to represent amount of my questions about this fact. This is the silliest thing you ever could write for the lore, biologically wise mostly and until recently FFXIV seemed to follow irl biology more or less accurate so... I have some questions, SE story writing team.

Outside of this I couldn't say I'm any disappointed because we didn't really see anything about them. And even the lore for Vieras isn't really relevant because it's for The First - but this is at least some info to work with.

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Yeah doesn't really make sense, the few Hroth NPCs that I've talked to have a monogamous relationship, A wife and kid. So I'm wondering if it's basically your normal Medieval kingdom except they have a Queen instead of a King.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

For now they only thing that really confuses me in their lore is "females are extremely rare". My eyebrows almost left my face when tried to rise high enough to represent amount of my questions about this fact. This is the silliest thing you ever could write for the lore, biologically wise mostly and until recently FFXIV seemed to follow irl biology more or less accurate so... I have some questions, SE story writing team.

Outside of this I couldn't say I'm any disappointed because we didn't really see anything about them. And even the lore for Vieras isn't really relevant because it's for The First - but this is at least some info to work with.

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Yes, I believe that was a huge misstep to say Hrothgar females were extremely rare. It opens up unfortunate implications. I'm hoping they'll change it, but do they ever just change lore? With male viera, they said they stay in the woods as an excuse for them not to be playable. But then they could just twist that to say MOST males stay in the woods for them to be playable, but I see no such work-around for playable female Hrothgar.

Yeah, or even, "they never used to leave it but some brave souls have since been given the Wood's blessing to wander farther afield to ensure its protection", or even just have some renegades, much like some females leave even though they're shunned for doing it.

I think the out they have with the Hrothgar females is that the litter size could be quite large... but even so, I don't see why they wrote it that way. They could've come up with better excuses than that.

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

the person then tried to disprove male Hrothgar being able to be RP'd,

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Not what happened, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

Anyway, I would be curious to see if anyone's tried to produce a female Hrothgar in game. I've contemplated playing around with those animalhead hats that got introduced in...Heavensward, I think? I seem to recall people running around with tiger heads for a while. I think they were dungeon drops from Sohm Al or something. Could probably pair one of those with a female Miqo'te base for the tail.

And then we can all go and RP as them to make people like this guy throw tantrums about "BUT MUH LORE."

I remember when lore purists were throwing hissy fits about people RPing as White Mages and then Koji basically shut them down at a Q&A by saying that, while rare, it's not impossible for someone to come by a WHM soul crystal in the wild. I'm actually curious what he has to say about people RPing as fem Hrothgar and male Viera. I could definitely see him going either way on it.

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Originally Posted by alacruxe

Not what happened, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

Anyway, I would be curious to see if anyone's tried to produce a female Hrothgar in game. I've contemplated playing around with those animalhead hats that got introduced in...Heavensward, I think? I seem to recall people running around with tiger heads for a while. I think they were dungeon drops from Sohm Al or something. Could probably pair one of those with a female Miqo'te base for the tail.

And then we can all go and RP as them to make people like this guy throw tantrums about "BUT MUH LORE."

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I'll let your words speak for themselves.

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Originally Posted by alacruxe

Hrothgar are also rarely seen, and Helions usually stick around their homeland to serve their Queen. Yet here we are.

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Also, I really enjoy how childish you're acting because I've said my piece about RPing male viera. Real mature. Also, the fact that you think I threw a tantrum proves you have little grasp on tone.

Enjoy yourself!

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

words

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Pointing out that Hrothgar are still a rare sight =/= claiming you're not allowed to play one.

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Originally Posted by alacruxe

And then we can all go and RP as them to make people like this guy throw tantrums about "BUT MUH LORE."

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Why do you keep lashing out at people who aren't fully on board with the idea?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Why do you keep lashing out at people who aren't fully on board with the idea?

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Dunno if "lashing out" is the right turn of phrase, but sure, I'll play ball:
Because I think it's silly that people are getting their undies in a twist over a pretty inoffensive character choice.

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Originally Posted by alacruxe

Dunno if "lashing out" is the right turn of phrase, but sure, I'll play ball:
Because I think it's silly that people are getting their undies in a twist over a pretty inoffensive character choice.

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Again, you're absolutely terrible at reading tone it seems. And as I've stated, it's not in the lore so you're likely not to get RP. What part of that is hard to grasp?

Edit: Hit post limit.

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Originally Posted by alacruxe

I mean, if roleplaying is the same thing as praise, then sure.

Personally, I really don't care if the community ~*~validates~*~ me. All I'm interested in doing is exploring a character concept through collaborative storytelling. I think it's probably pretty fair to say that the same thing goes for anybody else who RPs. It's pretty unfair to assume some kind of ulterior motive there.

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https://i.imgur.com/CLHPRSg.jpg

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Originally Posted by alacruxe

https://i.imgur.com/pT1UR3e.png

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https://i.imgur.com/kTs4tdV.jpg

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Originally Posted by alacruxe

Dunno if "lashing out" is the right turn of phrase, but sure, I'll play ball:
Because I think it's silly that people are getting their undies in a twist over a pretty inoffensive character choice.

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They're not really getting that worked up over it. They simply don't find it plausible and see it as too much of a stretch. As I mentioned earlier, those doing such things seem to want praise and nothing else which is completely counterproductive.

Remember when this thread was just people asking for male Viera? Those were the days.

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Originally Posted by Fredco191

Those were the days.

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I always read that phrase in Yotsuyu's voice, now. Thank you, Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by alacruxe

Dunno if "lashing out" is the right turn of phrase, but sure, I'll play ball:
Because I think it's silly that people are getting their undies in a twist over a pretty inoffensive character choice.

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I honestly don’t have an issue with you doing whatever you want to but at the same time I also think the female model is really poor at even imitating a male. As to what people will accept in RP, some people don’t enjoy stretching the lore overly much. Whilst there are conceivable backgrounds for certain exceedingly rare character ideas, such as white magi, or even things like the Resonance, not everyone enjoys those. Particularly for areas of the lore that are in flux.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

those doing such things seem to want praise and nothing else

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I mean, if roleplaying is the same thing as praise, then sure.

Personally, I really don't care if the community ~*~validates~*~ me. All I'm interested in doing is exploring a character concept through collaborative storytelling. I think it's probably pretty fair to say that the same thing goes for anybody else who RPs. It's pretty unfair to assume some kind of ulterior motive there.

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Originally Posted by Berret_Snow

Yeah doesn't really make sense, the few Hroth NPCs that I've talked to have a monogamous relationship, A wife and kid. So I'm wondering if it's basically your normal Medieval kingdom except they have a Queen instead of a King.

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The population of the first =/= Source, isnt the same though. Or am I wrong? So female Hrothgar can be way more on the first, but less on the source. Vice versa for male Viera.

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Originally Posted by alacruxe

I mean, if roleplaying is the same thing as praise, then sure.

Personally, I really don't care if the community ~*~validates~*~ me. All I'm interested in doing is exploring a character concept through collaborative storytelling. I think it's probably pretty fair to say that the same thing goes for anybody else who RPs. It's pretty unfair to assume some kind of ulterior motive there.

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What ulterior motive is being assumed? Quite a few of us within this thread are simply stating that we don't find it plausible and that it doesn't look anything like a male viera.

It could have ended on that note with those involved simply agreeing to disagree. So I'm a little baffled that it's still a point of discussion.

You're the one who keeps lashing out by accusing those who aren't on board with it as lacking imagination or throwing a tantrum.

It's not that deep. It's just a matter of personal preferences.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

What ulterior motive is being assumed?

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The...the ulterior motive of wanting praise...?

I mean, that's what you said, right? That people making these characters just want praise.

(edit) Addendum:
I mean, if I were just fishing for praise, I could have made some much stronger claims. The options for a "masculine" character are pretty limited and it's not exactly easy to make a character with the kind of features I'd want to. Female Au Ra, Miqo'te, and Viera models all have no cheekbones at all, for example. And that's a critique I'd level at the models themselves in general, not just the impracticality of trying to make a female model look like a male one.

As it is, I was just doing the best I could with what was given. Big shrug. I really want to see other people take a shot at it, which was one of the things I was aiming for in making the post in the first place. I'm a little disappointed nobody else has posted their tries, because I'm still interested to see.

Then again, with the kind of negativity I seem to have spawned by posting a screenshot and a trace of a screenshot, I don't know if it's really a good idea to encourage other people to do the same.

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Originally Posted by alacruxe

The...the ulterior motive of wanting praise...?

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Yet that seems to be exactly what you're after. If you're not open to criticism, then you're only after praise - which may not be intentional on your part but that is most certainly how it came across.

Alternative ideas were put forward as to how best to design a male character that resembles a viera male and they were shot down, so it doesn't seem like there's much desire for debate and discussion despite claims to the contrary.

It went down the exact same way it went down the last time someone posted something similar earlier on in the thread in other words.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

...

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I don't think they were looking for debate or critique. Not everyone who comes into this thread wants to do that. Sometimes people come here just to show their support, art, screenshots, or whatever. You're right, it's not that deep, so there's no need to be dismissive.

Some of you guys are in debate mode, but that's not the primary intent of this thread.

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

https://i.imgur.com/CLHPRSg.jpg

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https://i.imgur.com/pT1UR3e.png

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

The population of the first =/= Source, isnt the same though. Or am I wrong? So female Hrothgar can be way more on the first, but less on the source. Vice versa for male Viera.

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The handsome old fella from the Gunbreaker quest in the Source mentioned that he had a wife and kid. He also mentioned his service under the queen who's either dead or injured.
So I think the Females are rare blurp was basically just an excuse so they wouldn't have to create female models.

*sips tea, watches the male viera supporters continue to eat each other alive while waving a little sign that says:
if we get them, yay. if we don't get them, yay.*

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Originally Posted by LittleChickenNugget

*sips tea, watches the male viera supporters continue to eat each other alive while waving a little sign that says:
if we get them, yay. if we don't get them, yay.*

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Mind if I join you? I have cookies. Nice and sweet, good to go with the 'why is there talk about validation in my 'Ijustwantmalevierahelpmeplease' tea

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Yet that seems to be exactly what you're after. If you're not open to criticism, then you're only after praise - which may not be intentional on your part but that is most certainly how it came across.

Alternative ideas were put forward as to how best to design a male character that resembles a viera male and they were shot down, so it doesn't seem like there's much desire for debate and discussion despite claims to the contrary.

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The "criticism" that was leveled at me was just a bunch of people saying "it's a she" and "I wouldn't RP with that" which is not terribly constructive. I'm not sure where you're seeing the constructive criticism there.

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Originally Posted by Berret_Snow

The handsome old fella from the Gunbreaker quest in the Source mentioned that he had a wife and kid. He also mentioned his service under the queen who's either dead or injured.
So I think the Females are rare blurp was basically just an excuse so they wouldn't have to create female models.

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whereas male miqote and female roegadyn and highlanders were deliberate design choices at this point i honestly believe they just ran out of time and that we'll get them later

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Originally Posted by Fredco191

Remember when this thread was just people asking for male Viera? Those were the days.

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Never forgetti.

https://i.imgur.com/5RAJrnL.png

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Originally Posted by LittleChickenNugget

*sips tea, watches the male viera supporters continue to eat each other alive while waving a little sign that says:
if we get them, yay. if we don't get them, yay.*

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

Mind if I join you? I have cookies. Nice and sweet, good to go with the 'why is there talk about validation in my 'Ijustwantmalevierahelpmeplease' tea

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May I join in this corner? I can make us croissants and hot cocoa. >w>

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Originally Posted by alacruxe

The "criticism" that was leveled at me was just a bunch of people saying "it's a she" and "I wouldn't RP with that" which is not terribly constructive. I'm not sure where you're seeing the constructive criticism there.

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That's a bit deceptive, is it not? Other statements were made such as outlining a potential workaround using one of the male models as a base to design a male viera.

Of course, it all circles back to the simple fact that they're not present in the game and may not even be added at all in the future. Most of the people posting in this thread want male viera to be added to the game. It's just that workarounds are largely irrelevant since they come with unfortunate baggage and aren't actually a viable solution in the eyes of many.

At any rate, I think if male viera were ever added then something along these lines would be wonderful for their height, physique and facial features:

https://i.imgur.com/U7j9NBS.jpg

Just stick on some bunny ears and we're sorted!

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Originally Posted by alacruxe

The "criticism" that was leveled at me was just a bunch of people saying "it's a she" and "I wouldn't RP with that" which is not terribly constructive. I'm not sure where you're seeing the constructive criticism there.

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So to give you some context why your original post got the response that it did...

There's a lot of people in this thread discussing what they would like male viera to look like, and what kind of body type they should have.
There's:
slim male viera vs. buff male viera
male viera being slightly shorter than female viera vs. male viera being taller than female viera

Whenever someone posts a picture of a slim male viera, whether that be their own artwork, something they found on the internet, or whatever, a few people in the buff camp will pick apart that post because it's not what they want.

You were just being dragged into that nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Senn

So to give you some context why your original post got the response that it did...

There's a lot of people in this thread discussing what they would like male viera to look like, and what kind of body type they should have.
There's:
slim male viera vs. buff male viera
male viera being slightly shorter than female viera vs. male viera being taller than female viera

Whenever someone posts a picture of a slim male viera, whether that be their own artwork, something they found on the internet, or whatever, a few people in the buff camp will pick apart that post because it's not what they want.

You were just being dragged into that nonsense.

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I haven't seen that happen very often in this thread. I have, however, witnessed a lot of posters banding together to stamp out any effort to push for male viera to be tall and rugged to better reflect the harsh and reclusive lifestyles that they lead. Quite a few abhorrent insults have been hurled at those of us who aren't on board with short, slender, feminine and androgynous aesthetics for male viera too.