Yeahhh... I'm going to have to side with the OP on this one. I can see looking up a guide on a MSQ trial or a raid but, but MSQ dungeons are largely low end and reactive. If you want it handed to you, that's fine but part of the challenge of this game is working with other people to complete a goal, regardless of previous experience. As soon as they announced they were new, I would have piped up with a few explanations. I have to agree with the poster who said the party wanted a scapegoat because after 2 wipes and still no explanation? That's either a noob group wanting a carry or a l33t group that didnt want to press buttons. Either way, it was stupid and wasteful and I hope they had a long ass wait for another tank. >:VQuote:
Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare
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05-07-2019, 05:57 AMUrsa_Vonfiebryd
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05-07-2019, 07:06 AMViduMaybe my view is a bit black and white here, but for me there were always two types of people and both are fine in and by itself:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd
(1) The "blind runner" - someone who wants to figure fights out themself and is also able to do that, at least in easy content like a dungeon. Someone who picks up mechanics fast enough to decipher and understand the rather simple fights we have in normal dungeons and who wants to be surprised by the whole thing.
(2) The "guide guy" - someone who not only needs but also wants explantions for bossfights etc. This person should make the effort to find and read such a guide before an encounter.
For me those two types dont mix to well - you shouldnt be going into a dungeon and expect and actually depend on your party-members to explain (mostly simple) fights to you, specially not if you're not confident on your own ability to read a fight and react to mechanis (specially not in level 50+ content).
Often people will explain or point out certain mechanics and thats a nice thing to do - but they're absolutly not required to (and sometimes things like language barriers, lack of keyboards or other reasons might prevent them from giving explantions).
Going into a dungeon, knowing that you want or will need a guide for bosses and expecting your team mates to provide this guide on the spot always seemed a bit foolish and selfish to me.
If you want a blind run - fine, then you shouldnt need a guide.
If you want a guide - there are plenty out there to consult before you enter the dungeon.
Personally I have the utmost understanding for people who want to figure out mechanics for themself - but quite often I'm reading posts (or having encounters myself) where someone wants to hear the strategy for the boss as soon as we approach the arena and thats a bit puzzeling to me... if you want the stragtegy explained to you anyways, why didnt you look up a proper explantion in your own time that you can study as much as you want and need instead of expecting 3 strangers who potentially dont speak your language to explain it to you in 2-3 lines with everyone waiting to finally engage the boss? -
05-07-2019, 07:48 AMVeis_AlveareI agree to the extent that I can - I haven't looked up a guide for a dungeon since I was a very new player. Like I suggested to that OP the easiest way to avoid anyone expecting you to know mechanics on your first runs through is to do content as it releases. The longer something has been out the greater the likelihood of you encountering someone who just won't tolerate a lack of understanding. Running it as a tank also adds a layer of pressure because there are fights in which you're all but essential to certain compositions depending on the skill of your healer/team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd
I also think there's an aspect that it's a bit harder to be nice about and that's player skill levels. I'm not a world-first raider or anything like that but I do Savage and clear it in a timely fashion. I'm not saying this to "toot my own horn" or whatever (I know it doesn't make me special and I'm not a 100% anything anyways) but after playing the game in a more difficult setting it certainly grants you a bit of leniency in more casual content. Things come out slower, they hit for less and they're usually more obvious since you're more used to looking for them. My SCH said it best, "In Savage mechanics kill you" which seems redundant but by comparison to the stuff you encounter in the msq it's a fair point.
All of this amounts to me not finding myself in this guys place because I don't leave myself in situations where I'm running content behind the greater community without the requisite skill to make up for the gap in foreknowledge. I'm not some guide-obsessed person but I think being entirely unwilling to look one up when it's the clear answer to your problem is a childish and prideful way to play and one I have little sympathy for.
As to that group being "stupid and wasteful" neither of us was there so we don't know that. Like I brought up before if they were unable to articulate the mechanics for whatever reason (be it a lack of a keyboard or English or whatever) and they knew they couldn't clear with a tank who didn't know said mechanics... I don't think that's stupid or wasteful, it's realistic. It's easy to paint them as big, bad elitists who wouldn't wait for this nice new sprout tank but if they were just ps4 players or ESL or something that is honestly more common (in my experience) than people unwilling to work with a sprout.
Tl;dr- Arm yourself with all the tools you can to succeed. If you don't do that and find yourself in that kind of situation use it as a learning experience and move on. Making an attention-seeking post on the OF about how this one time people were mean to you isn't helping you with your problem it's continbuting to the further infantilization of this community as a whole. -
05-07-2019, 07:56 AMCincierta
Just had three runs of Dusk Vigil leveling up dps jobs on an alt. I'm really starting to wonder about people who jump into duty finder.
All three flavors of tanks I've had today have done some or all of the following:
Not using defensive cooldowns
Not using tank stance
Mass pulled first hallway up to first boss AND NOT used def. cooldowns
Mass pulled second hallway AND STILL HAVE NOT used def. cooldowns
Left healer behind before protect can finish casting
Barely geared
Think they're in lvl 61+ content
Did I mention not used any defensive cooldowns?
Please, tanks, when you do leveling roulette for your daily, consider the fact that more than likely you won't end up in 61+ content, meaning the rest of the party you're being partied up with WILL NOT have the entirety of their kit, including yourself. If your dps have to point out the obvious to you, like I had to do earlier, then I have no words. -
05-07-2019, 09:09 AMsavageinkHoly crap! It takes longer to vote kick and type "watch a video", then to just type, "stand in the element he doesn't say". Want to see entitlement look in a mirror. The dude asked after the first wipe. No hair off anybody's butt there. I just ran CA yesterday. When we got to the boss, somebody asked the same thing, I felt no need to kick him. I typed "stand in the element he doesn't say". No wipe. Wow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare
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05-07-2019, 03:38 PMAlphaFox
I always laugh at those who say go watch a guide. Alright, sure, let me AFK for 5 minutes to load up the video and watch, plus I might as well watch the rest to see what else to expect. Granted for me I always check a guide if its outdated content like with me playing mass catch up from 4.0 for the free week event.
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05-07-2019, 04:46 PMBanriikku
Orbone
I give some quick explanation and my group let me die at the theter (second hit). Maybe a hickup or what it happens. Then overlapping for the meteors...why ? i explained it. Okay Addphase so i explain what to do and what not. ppl starting kill eachother with the theter or place the marker at the other groups. We made it to the second phase and what else not enough heal comes and ppl die because of the doom debuff. Circles pop up no one moves so raid wide damage kills all of us. Again and again.... In the end i gave up after wipe number 7. I am fine with not knowing or beeing a firstimer but this is ..... sorry for my bad english -
05-07-2019, 05:33 PMJunKriidTo be fair when I was leveling and still leveling as a tank, I at least spent 30sec to read the brief text description of each boss. It takes 30-60seconds. "<dungeon name here> Click wiki link, scroll to the bottom bullet points>. There's so many helpful, quick tools out there. You definitely don't need to watch a 5min video.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaFox
Some people have to wait 25-30min for a queue and it's not fair to hold up 3 other people. I remember doing that temple boss where you have to stand on the pillar or you get 1 shot. 2 people kept dying, I politely explained each time what they had to do, I even jumped up and down on the pillar and said: "Come to me". They still didn't, so the group disbanded. That's not fair on everyone. -
05-07-2019, 05:53 PMgumas
watching guide or not, you should "know" what to do (or at least get the gits of it) the moment it happen or after you received the damage after failing the mechanic, the msq dungeon mechanic in this game is almost downright basic...
- don't stand on red things
- an incoming attack ping on someone head, sometimes come with large circle predicting the radius of attack
- a big pillar/rock with boss doing full screen lethal aoe damage on certain time.
- a 4 arrow pinging inward on someone head
- a 4 arrow pinging outward on someone head
- someone get bubbled/levitated/trap inside a rock, its targetable and it has HP
- boss cast fullscreen aoe that cause you to get confused and hit your teammate, it blatantly called *something2* gaze/stare
like seriously mmorpg or not, if you have play videogames for sometime, you should at least know what to do when it happen, or at least your reflex and your brain will unconditionally "react" to those. -
05-07-2019, 07:00 PMMsMisato
Guides are ok, but this is a MSQ dungeon. Not a thing wrong asking what he was missing. A simple answer of stand in the elemental ring that's not called out would have been straight to the point and everyone would have gotten the dungeon done. Now if it was a Primal or Raid dungeon definitely go to the guides unless its a learning party but it cracks me up, go to the guides is always the answer.
What do the majority of you guys do when new raid content is released? wait for the guide first? No I doubt it. You know you will jump in that stuff head first, wipe out so many times and then finally get it and be pumped about it.
@jimmymagic - Shake it off you still have to complete the story. As state before overall the community is pretty decent to each other. You got a couple of bad apples. It happens from time to time. If you have to step back from MSQ and do some other stuff in game.