Viera and Hrothgar Megathread

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Originally Posted by Iscah

How long ago is "used to"? I've only seen a few instances of tail armour and they've been quite recent. The level 80 DRG gear from memory, and I think something else.

On the other hand, people have been complaining about tails clipping through capes for a long time, some asking for the ability to turn them off to prevent clipping – and now it's been done, people still aren't happy. (Probably not the same people, but still.)

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Used to was probably not the best phrase, but I was also thinking about the DRG set. It made me excited because of the quality of it. Going from making custom adjustments to tails to snipping them off isn't a high new standard, though.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

This is certainly a new standard.. Armor that affected tails used to give you tail armor. You could just make a replacement tail, suited, for the cases that need a cape. Make it play nice with that mesh. Just deleting the tail (which is a very important feature of any animal with a tail, not just aesthetically but there's a reason tails exist) is a new standard for sure. A low one.

If anything this has been SE testing the waters on how many corners they can cut.

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Used to give tail armor? You're talking about 1.0 there, they did away with that amount of focus on catering to tails to streamline the pipeline for making gear for all races and newer Character Models.

Also, FF14 characters are not "real animals".
Also, FF14 had a Miqote who hide their tail, so that's a thing they can do in their world when it makes sense to not see their tail. Which is why I think they're not gonna do a toggle, they will just hide it when it makes sense now.
Also, this is level 90 DRK gear. They still make "Tail armor" when it's part of the native gear design. (shockingly, if you pay attention to glam, there are def tops that are made with certain races in mind. Stuff that only looks good on Lala for example and gear that has tail armor in its native design. This isn't new, really)

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Originally Posted by Rokke

what a hilariously terrible suggestion

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You can call it terrible all you want but this was legit a reason SE gave as to why viera got less customization. To give viera four different eartypes that were customizable made it so they removed other options. Having one eartype would remove it. The issue is that the four eartypes also mean that any hat that is added for them would need to be modeled accordingly so they don't clip horribly which means even more work.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Used to give tail armor? You're talking about 1.0 there, they did away with that amount of focus on catering to tails to streamline the pipeline for making gear for all races and newer Character Models.

Also, FF14 characters are not "real animals".
Also, FF14 had a Miqote who hide their tail, so that's a thing they can do in their world when it makes sense to not see their tail. Which is why I think they're not gonna do a toggle, they will just hide it when it makes sense now.
Also, this is level 90 DRK gear. They still make "Tail armor" when it's part of the native gear design. (shockingly, if you pay attention to glam, there are def tops that are made with certain races in mind. Stuff that only looks good on Lala for example and gear that has tail armor in its native design. This isn't new, really)

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Where have I ever said anything about a toggle? I am fine with clipping because if I picked that race, I want those features. If I want a cape, too? I'll make do with the clipping. You're carrying on an argument from another thread and projecting it onto my post that argues that removing racial features is not a sign of higher quality but cutting corners.

edit: to steer back on topic: This continues to be my belief that clipping, and the amount of it, should be a choice by the player. If Viera and Hrothgar got hats with the trade that some combinations clipped horribly? I'd be thankful for the options.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ES5wCuvU...jpg&name=small

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But why......??

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Originally Posted by LuciaMirain

You can call it terrible all you want but this was legit a reason SE gave as to why viera got less customization. To give viera four different eartypes that were customizable made it so they removed other options. Having one eartype would remove it. The issue is that the four eartypes also mean that any hat that is added for them would need to be modeled accordingly so they don't clip horribly which means even more work.

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We have 4 ear types and they're here to stay. Accept clipping or accept the lack of hats.

I honestly do not care about hats, only hairstyles. Even though I find it ridic that we cant even get the AF hats without having hair removed. At least alot of new gear is made to be tiaras or facemasks in different versions.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

No, they did "make them work". I'm fairly sure there's more than enabling a flag to make a face cover fit a Hrothgar's face this well (Looks pretty good to me). I've been keeping track of it to some extent, Hrothgar use to only be able to wear bucket helms that fully covered the face, now they've made more and more that can show their face. Hoods on Viera have also gotten better I think, less "bulbous head" and more skull fitting.

And ... what exactly do you want them to do?
Make different ear hole configurations to hats to properly accommodate their 4+ ear options? That's at least 4 times more work than any other race gets for things to fit their head.

The way I see it, unless they devote a f-ton of time to this, hats are just gonna look trash for Viera.
They would have to either figure out a way to make ear holes for each pair of ears (Could very well break a hat's design. Underwear on the head look, oof), find a way to move the ears around to accommodate certain hat styles, turn the ears OFF (an under-rated option. Many people HATE clipping and would love to be able to turn tails off for this reason) or just let them look trash as they clip through.

I fear that this pressure to alleviate this pain point for Viera and Hrothgar players will simply result in more hats like this and the Reaper hat that completely takes away the hair (I really hope that style of hat isn't their forever trademark) and more "Non-hat" headgear like the raid gear/ Sage eye thing, so that these players are not left out.
It's far less work to just make more hats like those that everyone can wear than it would be to figure out how to fix a core design problem that they foolishly based these races upon.

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They made it work because those Garlean hats do not need to show any hair underneath, which shows another problem that (at least the exclusive hairstyles) got no "hat friendly" versions made yet. So I'd presume the only effort was a step required for any other race, which is to make the 3d mesh fit the head shape correctly, and just enabling the ears to clip through. Which is fine, as those hats have flat top surfaces. In fact, a lot of miqo'te ears also clip through old items when they didn't bother to design holes.

However, by this logic above, I don't understand why there are still a ton of headgear that isn't available, such as the Helm of Light, or the Behemoth Helm, the Odin helm... or even the Heavensturn helms. None of those show any hair underneath. Some of them have flat tops, which the ears could just as easily clip through. Others, given the bulky shape, they could just hide the ears. They did that with some Pagh'lthan helmets.

Truth be told... Since the new hairstyles, independent of race, are always designed with the hat friendly versions, I think they could dedicate a bit of time to make that for the Viera exclusive hairstyles. One, there are so few of them... just nine styles (not counting repeated ones that just have bangs), and two... much like they do with regular styles, the same hat friedly adaptation could be used for multiple different styles as well, if applicable.

I just want pretty hairstyles that are sized correctly on Viera

I'm surprised Lexen Tails and the Gyr Abanian Plait didn't get ported over. They're both "big head hair" styles that would have taken a lot less work than the Nier cuts. The ponytail looks like it's struggling.