[dev1008] About Jumping

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

We do NOT want jump. It will degrade the character and atmosphere of the game.

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I'd have to agree with this. I really see no important use in a "jump" command. Imagine seeing a fat man trying to swim, it looks ugly and out of place.

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Originally Posted by Nephera

with zelda/mh style jumping we could change recovery time based on falling distance.

Fairly high drop and you land on your hands and knees and have to push yourself up before starting again

just a small step and you stagger a bit but keep on running

medium drop and you bend over and slow down for a second then keep running.

Huge drop, WHAMMO you crumple and lay on your back/front for a few seconds before getting up. Unless you're a dragoon.

Ascending ledges would just be climbing or pull ups.

all of this could be triggered by holding E while running into a ledge so you dont hurtle yourself into a pit full of peistes

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I actually like this idea, prevents people from bunny hopping but still adds the ability to control your character. Kinda like LOTRO when you fall it staggers you, same could be for a small jump, maybe a two second delay between them.

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Originally Posted by Quoc

I'd have to agree with this. I really see no important use in a "jump" command. Imagine seeing a fat man trying to swim, it looks ugly and out of place.

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Well considering there's no fat characters, how would any feature be out of place in a FANTASY game? Again, care to go more in depth? What kind of atmosphere do you consider the game to have? Seems like people just don't want the feature since either, it wasn't in FFXI, which my response would be FFXIV=/=FFXI OR WoW has it and people will jump everywhere, again, I thought the FF MMO crowd tout how much mature they are compared to that.

Ugh. This thread completely and utterly disappoints me. I was hoping the FFXIV forums would be about bringing this game out from the stone age and making it better, not arguing the merits of jumping, a basic and useful feature in 90% of games since the start of them, and something that characters in all recent Final Fantasy games do a hell of a lot of.

I'm still hopeful this game can be turned around, but you people are stubborn about all the wrong things, and in the end it will hold the game back from its true potential.

Then you look at something like Guild Wars 2, which is completely redefining the MMO genre, and I have to wonder "Why bother anymore?"

I bought FFXIV because I hoped it would be a modern FFXI-style (But not FFXI.) game, with all the pizazz besides simply graphics that go along with several years of innovation. What I got was a disappointment. But the biggest disappointment is the community's completely irrational and stubborn take on completely meaningless things. Counterproductive and embarrassingly wasteful discussion when we could be getting some Developer replies/opinions on better things, such as when the world won't feel like a dead, empty place. Or when we can see the story begin to progress outside of story quests.

I'm still here because I still want the game to succeed, but it's hard to see that happening when I see a thread like this, with so many replies, and so many people adamant about a feature that in every way shape and form could only improve the game, sans "annoying," people who, quite frankly, if annoyed by people JUMPING in a VIDEO GAME, need to immediately and with much urgency seek professional help for their crippling issues.

As I said, the only argument here is "I'm selfish and you should do what I say in this game we all paid for!"

Complete and utter trash.

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Originally Posted by Xbob42

Ugh. This thread completely and utterly disappoints me. I was hoping the FFXIV forums would be about bringing this game out from the stone age and making it better, not arguing the merits of jumping, a basic and useful feature in 90% of games since the start of them, and something that characters in all recent Final Fantasy games do a hell of a lot of.

I'm still hopeful this game can be turned around, but you people are stubborn about all the wrong things, and in the end it will hold the game back from its true potential.

Then you look at something like Guild Wars 2, which is completely redefining the MMO genre, and I have to wonder "Why bother anymore?"

I bought FFXIV because I hoped it would be a modern FFXI-style (But not FFXI.) game, with all the pizazz besides simply graphics that go along with several years of innovation. What I got was a disappointment. But the biggest disappointment is the community's completely irrational and stubborn take on completely meaningless things. Counterproductive and embarrassingly wasteful discussion when we could be getting some Developer replies/opinions on better things, such as when the world won't feel like a dead, empty place. Or when we can see the story begin to progress outside of story quests.

I'm still here because I still want the game to succeed, but it's hard to see that happening when I see a thread like this, with so many replies, and so many people adamant about a feature that in every way shape and form could only improve the game, sans "annoying," people who, quite frankly, if annoyed by people JUMPING in a VIDEO GAME, need to immediately and with much urgency seek professional help for their crippling issues.

As I said, the only argument here is "I'm selfish and you should do what I say in this game we all paid for!"

Complete and utter trash.

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Why don't you start some threads of your own then?

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Originally Posted by ARoy

Why don't you start some threads of your own then?

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I'm going to. My distaste wasn't that there aren't good threads, however. It's that the threads with the most attention (Which is important if you're the new, young dev trying to please the masses who are relying on you!) are the ones that will, in the end, be the least significant to turning this game, this potentially amazing game, around and really bringing it full circle.

It reminds me of the Charlie Sheen coverage a few days ago, come to think of it.

You could make the argument that I'm "only adding to it," and that's fine. But I think it's worth it if I can get a couple of folks to try to hype up some of the more critical threads. Jumping is fun, but wanting to log in is a little higher on the priority list, for me at least.

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Originally Posted by Xbob42

Ugh. This thread completely and utterly disappoints me. I was hoping the FFXIV forums would be about bringing this game out from the stone age and making it better, not arguing the merits of jumping, a basic and useful feature in 90% of games since the start of them, and something that characters in all recent Final Fantasy games do a hell of a lot of.

I'm still hopeful this game can be turned around, but you people are stubborn about all the wrong things, and in the end it will hold the game back from its true potential.

Then you look at something like Guild Wars 2, which is completely redefining the MMO genre, and I have to wonder "Why bother anymore?"

I bought FFXIV because I hoped it would be a modern FFXI-style (But not FFXI.) game, with all the pizazz besides simply graphics that go along with several years of innovation. What I got was a disappointment. But the biggest disappointment is the community's completely irrational and stubborn take on completely meaningless things. Counterproductive and embarrassingly wasteful discussion when we could be getting some Developer replies/opinions on better things, such as when the world won't feel like a dead, empty place. Or when we can see the story begin to progress outside of story quests.

I'm still here because I still want the game to succeed, but it's hard to see that happening when I see a thread like this, with so many replies, and so many people adamant about a feature that in every way shape and form could only improve the game, sans "annoying," people who, quite frankly, if annoyed by people JUMPING in a VIDEO GAME, need to immediately and with much urgency seek professional help for their crippling issues.

As I said, the only argument here is "I'm selfish and you should do what I say in this game we all paid for!"

Complete and utter trash.

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Yeah, it's quite sickening.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Quit livin in the past, man.

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lol for real!

Kimahri I was saying we need to convince you for a manual jump.

I want real jumping.

WoW Jumping.

Don't give me the "This isn't Warcraft" bullshit. If we take that kind of mentality, then we shouldn't be running because WoW players run. Same goes for walking. Therefore, we must develop some other mode of transportation. If you're actually agreeing with me:

Jetpacks. Give everyone Jetpacks.

Anyway, it's a standard feature, and think about it, it doesn't kill the immursion or whatever you kids call orgasming this days, but it lets you know more about your fellow player. This one walks to place to place, and that one is a rabbit.

I jump to my damned classes all the time. This has nothing to do with me wearing a Mario Hat IRL.

So let those who want to jump Jump. The rest who are anti-jump; just pretend the button doesn't exist.

When it comes down to the wire, you cannot say it breaks immersion for anyone other than yourself, that is purely a matter of opinion.

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Originally Posted by Nephera

When it comes down to the wire, you cannot say it breaks immersion for anyone other than yourself, that is purely a matter of opinion.

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I wholeheartedly agree with this statement.

The immersion doesn't die with me.

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Originally Posted by Rockne

So let those who want to jump Jump. The rest who are anti-jump; just pretend the button doesn't exist.

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FFXIV isn't designed for "free" jumping, if you've fallen out of the map before it becomes painfully obvious.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

FFXIV isn't designed for "free" jumping, if you've fallen out of the map before it becomes painfully obvious.

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I've fallen off the world. That counts right?

But in that case, they can always delete their character if they're too stubborn to hit that jump button if they somehow fell in a ditch.

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Jetpacks. Give everyone Jetpacks.

Anyway, it's a standard feature, and think about it, it doesn't kill the immursion or whatever you kids call orgasming this days, but it lets you know more about your fellow player. This one walks to place to place, and that one is a rabbit.

I jump to my damned classes all the time. This has nothing to do with me wearing a Mario Hat IRL.

So let those who want to jump Jump. The rest who are anti-jump; just pretend the button doesn't exist.

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This^
10char

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Originally Posted by Xbob42

Ugh. This thread completely and utterly disappoints me. I was hoping the FFXIV forums would be about bringing this game out from the stone age and making it better, not arguing the merits of jumping, a basic and useful feature in 90% of games since the start of them, and something that characters in all recent Final Fantasy games do a hell of a lot of.

I'm still hopeful this game can be turned around, but you people are stubborn about all the wrong things, and in the end it will hold the game back from its true potential.

Then you look at something like Guild Wars 2, which is completely redefining the MMO genre, and I have to wonder "Why bother anymore?"

I bought FFXIV because I hoped it would be a modern FFXI-style (But not FFXI.) game, with all the pizazz besides simply graphics that go along with several years of innovation. What I got was a disappointment. But the biggest disappointment is the community's completely irrational and stubborn take on completely meaningless things. Counterproductive and embarrassingly wasteful discussion when we could be getting some Developer replies/opinions on better things, such as when the world won't feel like a dead, empty place. Or when we can see the story begin to progress outside of story quests.

I'm still here because I still want the game to succeed, but it's hard to see that happening when I see a thread like this, with so many replies, and so many people adamant about a feature that in every way shape and form could only improve the game, sans "annoying," people who, quite frankly, if annoyed by people JUMPING in a VIDEO GAME, need to immediately and with much urgency seek professional help for their crippling issues.

As I said, the only argument here is "I'm selfish and you should do what I say in this game we all paid for!"

Complete and utter trash.

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I am trying to get it out of the stone age(1999)!!

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

FFXIV isn't designed for "free" jumping, if you've fallen out of the map before it becomes painfully obvious.

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Odd, I didn't know you had your hands in how FFXIV was designed maybe that's where all the problems are coming from. I have fallen through the world before, I have fallen through the world in games with jump, not seeing the correlation.

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Originally Posted by Dromox

Odd, I didn't know you had your hands in how FFXIV was designed maybe that's where all the problems are coming from. I have fallen through the world before, I have fallen through the world in games with jump, not seeing the correlation.

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The correlation isn't merely falling through the world, it's the effects of what happens during it -- games with jump mechanics have a far looser "snapping" mechanic while those without the mechanic have a much more restricted snapback effect.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

The correlation isn't merely falling through the world, it's the effects of what happens during it -- games with jump mechanics have a far looser "snapping" mechanic while those without the mechanic have a much more restricted snapback effect.

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I see, but I have faith that if SE did implement such a feature they would code accordingly for it, and provide a feature to get out of getting stuck in the game world.

The code for getting unstuck is called "you better have Anima son"

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

The correlation isn't merely falling through the world, it's the effects of what happens during it -- games with jump mechanics have a far looser "snapping" mechanic while those without the mechanic have a much more restricted snapback effect.

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=/ Ive fallen threw the world in many games. Wow included..

i fail to see your point.

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Originally Posted by Rawry

=/ Ive fallen threw the world in many games. Wow included..

i fail to see your point.

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The point was in the post you just quoted:

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games with jump mechanics have a far looser "snapping" mechanic while those without the mechanic have a much more restricted snapback effect.

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There's a different snapping mechanic in play with games with a free jump mechanic, which is present in even offline games like Ys Oath in Felghana, Mario etc but not games where jumping is absent or automated. That's why he said if a jump mechanic were to be added it would with map design/collision changes in parallel.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

The point was in the post you just quoted:



There's a different snapping mechanic in play with games with a free jump mechanic, which is present in even offline games like Ys Oath in Felghana, Mario etc but not games where jumping is absent or automated. That's why he said if a jump mechanic were to be added it would with map design/collision changes in parallel.

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Mkay so.. what you're trying to say is: you think you know how the game is designed.. and as far as you're concerned FFXIV isnt designed to allow free jumping? If thats the case.. I would just like to remind everyone that SE asked everyone if they would mind if SE totally redesigned the game and the majority of the people said.. no.

So again.. I fail to see your point.

I've never understood the issue of falling through the world, myself.

I'm no coder, not even kind of, but wouldn't something along the lines of...

"if Z-axis = < 0 then reset Z-axis to > 0" or even a Z, Y and X-axis reset to just a few seconds prior?

Or does the game lose track of where you are entirely when it happens?

unimportant at the moment. It is better to maximize the landscape, fighting, the auction house, review the animas system and implement the chocobo before think about secondary system

The problem with them REDESIGNING the terrain is that they could mess it up again and we would STILL be asking for jumps,though i admit if it was designed properly we wouldnt feel that we need it.

A 'step up' feature would work. But no thanks to ADHD kids jumping around everywhere 24/7/365/infinite. Please no.

people who walk in games, offend me. walking by me is the most intrusive thing you could do. I mean.. for real.. why can't people just stand there and be immobile. They need to remove mobility from the game.

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Originally Posted by BadJoeRed

A 'step up' feature would work. But no thanks to ADHD kids jumping around everywhere 24/7/365/infinite. Please no.

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Cause that's exactly what happens with jumping features.

So let me get this straight...

These ADHD kids are fine right now.

But if they can jump, and get over annoying and poorly constructed terrain, no longer being landlocked like Sherman Tanks... THEN they're bad.

Christ.

Just Christ.

reg spamming is fine.. but jump spamming is crossing the line!!

All the actions in game currently are based around immersion. This game doesn't give you dance emotes that imitate the thriller. I think adding a free jump without making it look proper would probably hurt the game's aesthetic appeal. A jump that looks like it fits (either perhaps a dramatic jump or one like the FFXIII/FFX-2) might actually be appreciated. I don't like feeling like my feet have magnets to the ground.

I feel it's an important aspect of the Final Fantasy games to hold a type of fantasy realism and I hope that the developers understand this.

Having the jump fit the theme and not look silly -- certainly. Having no jump at all is a little sad, though.

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Originally Posted by Xbob42

Cause that's exactly what happens with jumping features.

So let me get this straight...

These ADHD kids are fine right now.

But if they can jump, and get over annoying and poorly constructed terrain, no longer being landlocked like Sherman Tanks... THEN they're bad.

Christ.

Just Christ.

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Maybe you missed the entire point of the 6324872 replies to this thread. Nobody is disputing that the terrain is difficult to navigate. Which is why I suggested 'step up'

We just don't want to see your hyper asses spamming jump everywhere. /jumpingChrist.

I'm pretty sure this is the most active thread on these forums and it's all about jumping. Is this really gonna make or the break the game whether there is a jump feature of not? I mean I can live with or without a jump feature as I played FFXI off and on for 8 years just fine without jumping, however I have run into many tiny obstacles in terrain in FFXIV that generally didn't exist in FFXI which would be at most "convenient" to have a jump feature at that time thus making a valid reason for such a feature, but I fail to see the significance of being the most discussed proposal to FFXIV.

I understand that some people (many people at that, but I highly doubt most people) are against jumping because it can be spammed and thus creates this annoying motion if repeated. I agree that would be annoying to a certain point like if I see 5+ people doing this in town or in the middle of fighting a NM.

I also understand that having a jump feature as well as being able to run off the edges of terrain (which was much more prominent in FFXI actually) would be very convenient since the alternative could be anywhere from 5-30 seconds of time spent maneuvering around these virtual obstacles.

If this jump feature is really so crucial I propose implementing falling off edges in the same fashion as FFXI while either giving jump an action to scale over terrain accessed via the event icon the same way you examine aetherytes OR binding it to a key/making it an action with 0 AP cost and giving it anywhere from a 3-10 second cool down timer. I think this effectively adds a jump feature while eliminating the possibility of spamming, which in turn SHOULD make everyone happy.

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Originally Posted by BadJoeRed

We just don't want to see your hyper asses spamming jump everywhere. /jumpingChrist.

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"We" Being half the population.

The other half want to be like Super Mario and jump. A lot.

We just want to jump, and not listen to your whining. /JumpingRabbit.

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Originally Posted by BadJoeRed

Maybe you missed the entire point of the 6324872 replies to this thread. Nobody is disputing that the terrain is difficult to navigate. Which is why I suggested 'step up'

We just don't want to see your hyper asses spamming jump everywhere. /jumpingChrist.

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And I don't want to see your anal retentive ass in-game. We can't all have what we want. I think convenience wins out over your abstract hatred of normal, natural locomotion. The "annoying," argument, as it appears, is the only thing the jump-haters seem to have. I think that in of itself is proof that there's no valid reason not to implement it.

Yes yes, it's your opinion and you're a special flower who deserves to be heard and all that. But honestly, because you find people jumping annoying? Annoying how? How anal are you to get irritated at people jumping up and down in an MMO? Are you reading your own text? Does it sound sane to you?



EDIT: Perhaps I'm coming off as a little more abrasive than is perhaps necessary here. If so, I apologize. It's just the absurdity of the fact that this is the most popular thread... For all of FFXIV's issues, THIS! It still hasn't fully been absorbed into my brain. I'm usually very nice, ask any of my victims!

Besides if someone is jump spamming you can just

A) go away
B) look away
C) report them for harassment if they are jump spamming AT you and following you around

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Originally Posted by Xbob42

And I don't want to see your anal retentive ass in-game. We can't all have what we want. I think convenience wins out over your abstract hatred of normal, natural locomotion. The "annoying," argument, as it appears, is the only thing the jump-haters seem to have. I think that in of itself is proof that there's no valid reason not to implement it.

Yes yes, it's your opinion and you're a special flower who deserves to be heard and all that. But honestly, because you find people jumping annoying? Annoying how? How anal are you to get irritated at people jumping up and down in an MMO? Are you reading your own text? Does it sound sane to you?



EDIT: Perhaps I'm coming off as a little more abrasive than is perhaps necessary here. If so, I apologize. It's just the absurdity of the fact that this is the most popular thread... For all of FFXIV's issues, THIS! It still hasn't fully been absorbed into my brain. I'm usually very nice, ask any of my victims!

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I'm sorry, do you or one of your children have ADHD? Did I offend you?
Why do you want to jump around like an idiot anyways? I'd guess more than 80% of people don't want to see this. My best guess is because the people who do this are probably 14ish. And while I'm sure that all of you lovely minor teenagers who read these forums are mature role model citizens in the real world, the majority of those other teens are immature nublets who are not pleasant to play an online game with under most circumstances.

EDIT: perhaps I'm coming off as a little more abrasive than perhaps is necessary, but just drop it, you're being stupid. And I mean that in the nicest way possible.

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Originally Posted by BadJoeRed

I'm sorry, do you or one of your children have ADHD? Did I offend you?
Why do you want to jump around like an idiot anyways? I'd guess more than 80% of people don't want to see this. My best guess is because the people who do this are probably 14ish.

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Jumping. In a game. Makes you 14ish.

Your ideas of maturity, of age, of what constitutes the foundation of entertainment, all seem to be based around some strange idea that everything has to be "super serious."

Wouldn't want to break all that immersion while you're being killed by a tiny doll-like cactus.

Your argument isn't an argument. It's simply elitism in the most petty, incomprehensible, self-centered, childish way.

Get over yourself.

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Originally Posted by BadJoeRed

I'd guess more than 80% of people don't want to see this.

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If only 20% of the players were interested in a jump feature, I doubt it would be tabled by Yoshi-P for examination or spawn a heated 80 page debate.

Or do you mean 80% of players don't want to see bunny-hopping?

Either way, where do these figures come from?

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Either way, where do these figures come from?

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His rear end :P