"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

Instead of trying to bully a tank into doing more than they are comfortable with.

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

DPS bullying tanks into accepting more than they can handle is forcing their playstyle on others

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Talk like this is extremely funny to me considering tanks press the exact same buttons regardless of how many packs they actually pull in this game.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

How hard is it to simply ask them not to pull ahead? W2W pulls are the standard by level 70 at the latest though often it's expected come 60. Naturally, DPS or Healers are going to continue ahead because in 99% of their runs, they'll get a tank who is already sprinting ahead or running with them. Regardless, ever heard "two wrongs don't make a right?" Once again, we're back to the intent. DPS or Healers pulling isn't intended to grief the party. Purposely refusing to take aggro, thereby making the Healer's job harder, the run slower and potentially kill someone/wiping is solely intended to grief them over a bruised ego.

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Now you add healers into it lol, the thread is about DPS. Healers do what they want. Hopefully it includes dpsing.

Honestly, you're just assigning positive intent to the DPS because it's convenient for you. Players aren't stupid. They know the roles and team dynamics, they are just selfish and want to speed up a dungeon. You're like "you can ask them to not pull ahead" while ignoring that they could just say "can we speed it up by chance". The mental gymnastics you go through to condemn one while protecting the other isn't objective.

You keep assuming it's a bruised ego too, in order to make yourself feel better. But there are actually newer players that have to learn the map of a dungeon, and get used to tanking. Tankxiety is actually real. So a whole lot of assumptions going on when the baseline is... stay in your lane and be kind to people. Communicate when in doubt.

We can keep going back and forth but nah. I don't agree lol.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

BS

We have a new healer right now. I've been dpsing plenty of groups where Sages say they're still learning, can we take it easier. And I've seen plenty of my fellow dps just outright that ignore that the tank is pulling smaller to be considerate to these requests and go grab more than the new Sage can handle. And many times we wipe. There are plenty of selfish dps who will pull what *they* want only, regardless of what the party needs or wants.

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I'll never get this line of logic. DPS pulling ahead is essentially free testing grounds for both the tank and healer. Take the Sage in your example. If they succeed in handling the pull, then they've just shown themselves they are capable and don't need to worry about it anymore. If it causes a wipe, blame the DPS for pulling more after being asked not to. It's entirely a win/win for Sage here.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Talk like this is extremely funny to me considering tanks press the exact same buttons regardless of how many packs they actually pull in this game.

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Yes and that's the problem. Tanking is exceptionally easy once you get it. But it does have a learning curve to get used to.

Inconsiderate players like you, thinking everyone is the same and learns at the same pace is the reason for the TOS update in the first place lol. Honestly, I'm glad the GMs and devs care, even when a selfish minority of players don't.

Just try to remember to be kind to people, you have no clue what it's like for them.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Once again, we're back to the intent. DPS or Healers pulling isn't intended to grief the party.

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It may not be griefing, but this behavior comes from a place of annoyance at the perceived pace of the dungeon. I highly doubt this all started because one DPS said let me try to optimize the party and make the tank's job easier. This started from a place of annoyance of pace, then got a bunch of people onboard via echo chamber.

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Originally Posted by AbysmalDuck

It may not be griefing, but this behavior comes from a place of annoyance at the perceived pace of the dungeon. I highly doubt this all started because one DPS said let me try to optimize the party and make the tank's job easier. This started from a place of annoyance of pace, then got a bunch of people onboard via echo chamber.

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Yeah, they are just fully making up stuff at this point and pinning a "bruised ego" on the tank when in reality it's just "I want to do what I want and how dare you say otherwise".

Can't really talk to someone who isn't objective. The moment they break into perceived efficiencies outside a static setting, it's a joke lol.

Edit: Reached my daily limit!
Can't sit on the forums all day and the one fun person stopped responding to me. So good luck trying to compel a playstyle out there!

If you get me in a dungeon, let's have some fun! <3

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I'll never get this line of logic. DPS pulling ahead is essentially free testing grounds for both the tank and healer. Take the Sage in your example. If they succeed in handling the pull, then they've just shown themselves they are capable and don't need to worry about it anymore. If it causes a wipe, blame the DPS for pulling more after being asked not to. It's entirely a win/win for Sage here.

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Because when the party dies in these situations, they blame the healer. You main one, right? I do, too. They always blame us, no matter if it was our fault or not. It's also not the place of other party members to decide when someone else is ready. If someone has communicated they want to stay in their limits, then it's rude to just ignore that and decide "they gon' learn!". It's about being considerate to the person behind the screen and what they've communicated.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

I can give you the context. He was in Hullbreaker Isle, a DPS ran ahead of him and he refused to pick up the mobs. He said all of 2 things in that dungeon, as he plays on console and doesn't own a keyboard. He said "you pull you tank" and "kick me then". He got a 1 week ban and that was the GM ticket he received. GM tickets never go into full detail, more than the ToS violation that was committed. First you called me a liar, then you asked for proof of ticket, now you're saying the ticket lacks context. You can choose to believe me, or you can risk losing your account. It only takes a couple people to report. And if you lose your account, no skin off my back. But I showed you. You wanna die on that hill, it's your character you're sacrificing. Have a nice day. :)

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Actually the mistake the tank made here was being rude. The way to turn this around and get the people pulling for you banned is to change the words from "you pull, you tank" to "I'm still practicing this job and need to go slower, sorry". Any other comment they make pressuring you to go faster can be answered by "no thank you, still practicing" and DPS dying because the tank didnt grab aggro can simple be attributed to the tank getting used to his job with written evidence of the tank being polite.

Since the GMs only have the chat log and the reports all you have to do is go to the support desk and report them for kicking and this will turn into them getting banned for imposing a playstyle. It doesn't matter if you are new to the game or not and it's a polite and otherwise unprovable statement so there's actually little the DPS or anyone else in the party can do without being toxic and breaking TOS.

So really, all you need to do is be silent, keep those keywords in mind if they harass you and move on.

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

Now you add healers into it lol, the thread is about DPS. Healers do what they want. Hopefully it includes dpsing.

Honestly, you're just assigning positive intent to the DPS because it's convenient for you. Players aren't stupid. They know the roles and team dynamics, they are just selfish and want to speed up a dungeon. You're like "you can ask them to not pull ahead" while ignoring that they could just say "can we speed it up by chance". The mental gymnastics you go through to condemn one while protecting the other isn't objective.

You keep assuming it's a bruised ego too, in order to make yourself feel better. But there are actually newer players that have to learn the map of a dungeon, and get used to tanking. Tankxiety is actually real. So a whole lot of assumptions going on when the baseline is... stay in your lane and be kind to people. Communicate when in doubt.

We can keep going back and forth but nah. I don't agree lol.

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I've been saying DPS and Healers in virtually every response to this thread. Keep up, would you?

Likewise, I'll reiterate once again. The standard expectation is wall pulling because in the vast majority of cases that is what tanks will do at 70+. Therefore, if you want a slower pace for whatever reason, the onus is on you to say something because you're the one harboring different expectations. The only mental gymnastics here is you trying to find every excuse to justify griefing your party by intentionally letting people die. It's also both ironic and hypocritical that you absolve Healers from blame if they pull ahead but DPS need to be punished. Could it be that Healers keep you alive, therefore letting them die all but guarantees you'll die unless you're an 81+ Warrior? In other words, you can't dodge that your pettiness intentionally caused a wipe if a Healer runs ahead but if it's a DPS, you can skate around it. About those mental gymnastics...

It is a bruised ego. There's no way around that when you're purposely letting someone die. You outright admitted to single targeting just to ensure they die. And now you're gonna claim that isn't derived from a inflated ego? Please. Tankxiety is a nonsense excuse that people cling to in order to justify crappy behavior or unwillingness to improve. If you're a novice tank, don't tank 70+ dungeons. When I first started out, I spammed Stone Vigil, Darkhold and even Aurum for a bit just get my bearings. I didn't pop right into Holminster Switch and demand everyone else deal with me pulling one pack at a time. If I can do that why can't everyone else? Oh, it's because they don't care what other players want. But yes, keep insisting it's only the DPS who are selfish.

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

Yes, and I 100% maintain what I've said because your situation isn't relevant to the points I've been making. Points you've addressed btw. First, GMs have access to dungeon chat, they do not have instant replay to watch an entire dungeon and see what happen. They have the report, chat logs and then they will reach out to you for context if necessary or just flat out pass judgement.

Your husband saw a character pull on content, said "you pull you tank", and then refused to play, didn't even try or do anything and then specifically said "kick me" instead of leaving himself and griefing the party. He deserved his warning, he legitimately wasn't playing.

Here's the thing that matters though: You don't get banned/warned for bad play. You do not get penalized for playing how you want to play as long as you are trying and being courteous when people ask (or the safest method, just don't say anything at all).

FFXIV has specifically broken down the TOS because people keep trying to complain and compelling certain playstyles when this game is more casual centric. In ALL of my examples in this chat, I've never advocated for a player to just... refuse to play. To stop moving the dungeon along and having the sheer stupidity of actually typing it in chat lol.

I simply advocated that if a DPS picks up a mob, while I've got stuff going on I'm going to KEEP PLAYING and focus on my mobs. THAT's what you should be trying to throw in your very late gocha on. But as i've said, I've already had a judgement and I didn't get a warning message to show, I just got a GM chatting me that I didn't screen grab.

So I will have a great day. I'll continue on following the TOS and not compelling a playstyle. To repeat my first post here: If you want to RP a tank, I will let you! Go for it!

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So, you admit that you find loopholes to avoid getting in trouble (ie. just not admitting it in chat) while going on and on about how you respect and follow the ToS and how important they are. If you can't admit you did it in chat, it's because you know it's a bannable offense. But don't worry, you follow the ToS. Those mental gymnastics, though.