This is getting ridiculous. (Endwalker MSQ and post MSQ spoilers)

The difference between RDM/SAM getting past primal weapons and the later classes missing out could also be to do with the number of weapons required to be modelled for current gameplay. Since they were added, the additional two (now four) jobs each add a permanent increase in the number of models required. Each one needs 5-10 levelling gear models (crafted/dungeon), 3 tome sets, 3 raid sets, etc. – so each expansion is requiring at least 30 more new weapon models than the one before it. That could have chewed up whatever leftover time might have previously been dedicated to creating extra "nice to have" weapons once they're done with the ones that need to be available for gearing up.

I do consider it a hopeful thing that they've left the primal weapons completely unmade rather than slapping the right colour scheme on an existing model and calling it a day. It suggests to me that they want to get to it when they can.

It wasn't just glamouring, they cut corners on job skills as well. Many jobs just got potency increases for old abilities or had old abilities nerfed so they could give something similar at a higher tier but with the potency of the old skill. Summoners in particular don't learn a SINGLE new ability between 80 and 90, instead just getting potency increases and new animations and having the utility returned to an old skill. Narratively speaking its not a whole lot better, with the story being rushed to finish up pretty much every single plotline leading up to this point with, in my opinion at least, disappointing results. They also rely on backside pull far more than I like ((Look! There's a new type of magic no ones ever heard of ever and its THE MOST POWERFUL THING EVER! ...sort of...)). This was just a lazy expansion overall, easily the worst of XIV's lifeline. ...still better than most everything else out there.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

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Sorry, but your entire argument falls apart by me mentioning 4 things:

-Flamekissed Weapons (Patch 5.3)
-Moonlit Weapons (Patch 5.3)
-Demon Weapons (Patch 5.4)
-Enspirited Weapons (Patch 5.5)

All weapons released in Shadowbringers and developed after Ephemeral Weapons in Patch 5.2. You argue order matters, but it never did before and if the weapons are also being developed/released the same expansion as new job -- there isnt a reason for why they do one weapon, then never do anymore after. This wasnt an issue in SB where Samurai and Red Mage got Sepherot in 4.1 and Nidhogg in 4.4.

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Originally Posted by Palladiamors

It wasn't just glamouring, they cut corners on job skills as well. Many jobs just got potency increases for old abilities or had old abilities nerfed so they could give something similar at a higher tier but with the potency of the old skill.

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I would have been very happy if they did NOTHING to how red mage plays besides improving the AOE rotation. I don't want my job reinvented; I just want to get on with playing new content with a skill set I already understand how to use.

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

Sorry, but your entire argument falls apart by me mentioning 4 things:

-Flamekissed Weapons (Patch 5.3)
-Moonlit Weapons (Patch 5.3)
-Demon Weapons (Patch 5.4)
-Enspirited Weapons (Patch 5.5)

All weapons released in Shadowbringers and developed after Ephemeral Weapons in Patch 5.2. You argue order matters, but it never did before and if the weapons are also being developed/released the same expansion as new job -- there isnt a reason for why they do one weapon, then never do anymore after. This wasnt an issue in SB where Samurai and Red Mage got Sepherot in 4.1 and Nidhogg in 4.4.

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Except my argument in relation to the order is not that it matters for whether weapons are or aren't released for newer jobs, but rather the order with which they're released is indicative of something that doesn't necessarily have any formal standard for how and when they are released - Which was to highlight the point that it is at the bottom of their priorities and likely something that doesn't necessarily fit into their project management schedule. e.g. Why are we getting Byakko weapons after Suzaku and Tsukuyomi, despite the former being released before the latter, and why are Demonic weapons released 2 expansions after their initial release? As you've so conveniently put out.. Sephirot in 4.1, and Sophia in 4.5.. then an entire expansion worth between.. we see Zurvan?

As my follow-up comment specified.

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Almost as if there has been no other plan barring someone having spare time.

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My comment was meant to highlight how sporadically they are released. Not imply that the reason you aren't getting them because they predate the launch of the new jobs. My entire argument has always boiled down to them potentially not having enough time, and/or it just simply being a very low priority for them to develop new models for older trials when they are only considered a 'nice to have' - Sure they've historically done this in the past, arguable when those doing it potentially had more time to dedicate to it. With this in mind I don't really think there's anything valuable that can come out of this discussion

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I would have been very happy if they did NOTHING to how red mage plays besides improving the AOE rotation. I don't want my job reinvented; I just want to get on with playing new content with a skill set I already understand how to use.

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I understand that and I also understand how adding in new abilities is difficult without adding too much bloat but that can still lead to an underwhelming experience.

Also I really, REALLY wish my job hadn't been reinvented but...here we are.

For those defending and excusing getting less content and less variety should save their breathe, there is no logical reason to defend this unless your a hardcore shill. I mean for crying out loud they didn’t even bother adding any 79 loot besides accessories which are already outdated

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Except my argument in relation to the order is not that it matters for whether weapons are or aren't released for newer jobs, but rather the order with which they're released is indicative of something that doesn't necessarily have any formal standard for how and when they are released - Which was to highlight the point that it is at the bottom of their priorities and likely something that doesn't necessarily fit into their project management schedule.

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Which is irrelevant to the case of three of the four I mention (Flamekissed, Moonlit, and Enspirited). The only one this works for is Zurvan, and even if you want to ask that they were mismanaged -- they have a year to make two need weapons for it, since it wasnt even released until 5.4 in the later half of Shadowbringers. However, for Suzaku - Tsukuyomi - Byakko: this doesnt matter at all, as all three were designed to be released in Shadowbringers.

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My entire argument has always boiled down to them potentially not having enough time, and/or it just simply being a very low priority for them to develop new models for older trials when they are only considered a 'nice to have' - Sure they've historically done this in the past, arguable when those doing it potentially had more time to dedicate to it. With this in mind I don't really think there's anything valuable that can come out of this discussion

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You do realize that all these weapons were released back in the expansion prior without the fancy particle effects -- and about 90% of the work is already finished before they even make these right?

Like Byakko's Katana and Byakko's Enspirited Katana are the same model. So you cannot say "time is some measure" here -- especially when the dev team has knowledge of what the next expac's jobs are going to be when they are developing weapons for them. Even if we want to mark it as low priority, it looks really bad for a company to do it once then just go "fuck it, thats it" until Hades as you release 3 other sets of weapons in the same expac. If its at the point where developing two new models for it on release is a strain, then thats very bad when the majority of the work is finished over a year and a half ago.

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

Which is irrelevant to the case of three of the four I mention (Flamekissed, Moonlit, and Enspirited). The only one this works for is Zurvan, and even if you want to ask that they were mismanaged -- they have a year to make two need weapons for it, since it wasnt even released until 5.4 in the later half of Shadowbringers. However, for Suzaku - Tsukuyomi - Byakko: this doesnt matter at all, as all three were designed to be released in Shadowbringers.



You do realize that all these weapons were released back in the expansion prior without the fancy particle effects -- and about 90% of the work is already finished before they even make these right?

Like Byakko's Katana and Byakko's Enspirited Katana are the same model.

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Yes they have a year and if we want to drill back to the original point these are likely all the way at the bottom of the barrel in terms of their priorities. Whether it takes several months or a year is just as irrelevant if they already have a tight schedule in the first place. The way I see it is.. Everything as part of the main content cycle > Primal weapons > creating new models for older primal weapons. There's no reason these should take precedent over anything else. Regardless of how dramatic some might get.

Obviously. This wasn't even my argument or point here. My argument is that for new classes that otherwise weren't around for the inception of when the original models were created then they would be required to build these ground up. In case that is a complex notion; example.. GNB/DNC were not classes available when Byakko (the trial) was developed and launched, ergo in this case they would need to make new models for them (SAM/RDM were classes at the time however). This starkly contrasts with weapons that were available then, which you've already conveniently stated "have 90% of the work done already". So in this regard and by your own admission the development overhead for existent classes at the time would be far lower than classes that weren't launched at the time (e.g. DNC/GNB for Byakko).

I'm well aware they have shared models from the original to the crafted counterpart. Once again my argument was that they don't have this luxury with classes that were released an expansion after the respective trial, and yes we can go back in circles with stating "Well SB did" - and as a response I can turn around and say they probably have other content they ought to prioritise over supporting this. People can be salty all they like, if the people or person developing these in the past no longer has the luxury of time to support this, then it's just perfectly logical they drop it to maintain or put support elsewhere into the game as unfortunate as it might be. I'd much rather they just pour that energy elsewhere like another continuation of crafter/gatherer relics which in the event of Dragonsung was their first jab at it.

So what’s the excuse for them reusing a dungeon theme for an expert dungeon lmao. They couldn’t even give us a new expert dungeon theme for one of them.