It still is horrendous. As a tank out of all jobs with boring and lazy animations is nothing but disappointing after many people complained about DRK. I was hoping for the Dark Arts 5.0 removal, it seems however they learned nothing and just expanded on what was already a pretty terrible job in its current iteration.Quote:
Originally Posted by gwayne
Dark Knight Megathread
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09-18-2021, 06:23 PMShin96
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09-18-2021, 07:38 PMKatsuraJunremoving dark arts is exactly why DRK is the way it is now. they didn't learn nothing. they listened to exactly what people asked for back in SB and are sticking to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shin96
it's not a coincidence that all interplay between blood and mana is gone. it's not a coincidence that resource management has become simplified. SB dark arts was the lynchpin holding these gameplay systems together - it was essentially a 0 cooldown way to manipulate your mana to whatever number you needed it to be for your upcoming cooldowns or mechanics. without it, all these systems fell apart and were naturally excised from the game as a result.
people asked for this and that's why we have this.
and, enough people are happy with it now that it's not going to change - at least for the foreseeable future. -
09-18-2021, 07:44 PMDuskane
im kinda interested in the CD's of CS,AD,Blood weapon and delirium
inner release is already confirmed to be 60 seconds but with only 3 cleaves and assuming Delirium follows Drk is gonna be pretty spazzy every 60 seconds -
09-18-2021, 07:46 PMBhearilReally hope that those happy players keep playing tanks because i foresee a heavy lack of tanks coming this expansion, and no ammount of tank mounts is gonna fix that at this rateQuote:
Originally Posted by KatsuraJun
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09-18-2021, 07:50 PMArianeEwahNO, "people" didn't ask for the removal of Dark Arts, they asked for the spam to stop. And I get that, SB DA was used 10x/minute at full uptime. That's way over the top for an ability. Even Onslaught held on CD would be 6x/min, and the action is situational!Quote:
Originally Posted by KatsuraJun
HW DA was kinda clunky because of its long CD (3s) which was changed in SB to 2s, but unfortuntely with many other changes to the DRK MP system.
Nevertheless, the first DRK to clear UWU actually said, they played DRK because they thought it was fun. Well, if a "pro gamer" was happy with it, why did it have to change in the first place?
I don't think "enough people" are the reason why DRK doesn't change in EW, but the fact they just WANT to build upon 5.0 jobs - unless your job is SMN! - and they are heavily understaffed.
Also, I get the feeling that too many of todays DRK players are from the old SB Warrior faction, as well as mayn newcomers that wanted to play the poster boy of Shadowbringers. Just my theory! -
09-18-2021, 07:52 PMKeagian
What I wanna know is why did they create a follow up for Salted Earth? It was already a garbage skill that players only threw out because it was an extra button and now their is a follow up?
If Salted Earth is on a 60sec CD, this means they gave us another skill that is on a 60sec CD that is just a garbage AoE.
Then theirs the follow up for Edge and who knows how much MP that move is gonna cost. -
09-18-2021, 07:56 PMKatsuraJunremoving the spam* aspect of it is functionally deleting it in the context of SB DRK's gameplay loopQuote:
Originally Posted by ArianeEwah
need proof? we basically have exactly what you're asking for: edge of darkness is functionally the same as a "less spammy dark arts" - an mp dump without a cooldown - except it costs 2x as much mp and does 2x as much damage - meaning you press it a lot less for the same result.
it's also terribly boring because of that, as dumping mp when you're about to cap becomes twice as easy. not that there's even a risk of that anymore now that BW+Delirium is also gone, because there's no meaning in *that* anymore either when you don't need to plan for it. SB DRK literally couldn't spend mp fast enough to deplete the mana you'd gain during BW+Delirium windows, which is why using dark arts exactly the right amount in preparation for those windows was important. if you were to transplant edge of darkness into SB era DRK, it would become trivial since you can spend mp twice as fast now so you don't need to prepare anything. thus, it too was excised.
*and to add, I don't consider it "spammy" because using it a lot - but not too much where you can't cast CnS/TBN/etc - is exactly how it played into resource management and the punishment for not doing it properly: your oGCD windows become clogged and you can't spend mp fast enough in the aforementioned BW+Delirium windows.
idk where you got the impression I wanted it to changeQuote:
Originally Posted by ArianeEwah
I didn't want it to change.
i'm still buttmad over it, really. -
09-18-2021, 08:00 PMBhearil
Honestly was surprised that Salted Earth wasnt pruned considering how crappy of a skill became on Shadowbringers
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09-18-2021, 08:29 PMShin96
I phrased that poorly. By removal of Dark Arts I mean the removal of 5.0 Dark Arts in exchange for something vastly superior. I find it so excrutianingly mundane, jesus christ all of this feels like a bad joke to me. It's like some fever dream. I expected they'd fix something at least! Bloodspiller spam is gone but the job still looks boring af.
I'm inclined to vote with my wallet, it's September and I still haven't pre-ordered Endwalker, not that there will be any difference for SE considering all the newbies. Anyway, I digress. I think it's time for me to make a choice, they clearly have no respect for tanks at all so.. unless Reaper is worth playing. In the end all of this was kinda predictable I mean? Shadowbringers killed tanking and that expansion is regarded as one of the best. Make of it what you will. -
09-18-2021, 08:33 PMKatsuraJunwell that's the thingQuote:
Originally Posted by Shin96
DRK has always been about resource management all the way since its release in HW when you get down to it, basically. when you take that away (dark arts), you are left with nothing, which is kinda the situation we are in now. they would have had to come up with an entirely new direction to take the job. and honestly? I'm pretty sure that would have still been controversial, like a less extreme bowmage bard situation.
that's why I didn't want it to fundamentally change so much back in SB going into SHB. it was fine the way it was, imo. like you said, first world clear for UCOB? played DRK simply because it was fun, despite being the weakest tank at the time by a small margin. but people memed DA to death, so it is what it is.