Dragoon?

If they were to add Dragoon it would definitely be the specialized class off Lancer. Probably Lancer will attain "Jump" and a version of Puk would be the pet :P! after reaching 50 and doing a quest to evolve into dragoon!

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Originally Posted by Neffie

I was just pondering about the few things i have read in replies to the job system, and if im not mistaken, the armory system and the upcoming job system are going to be separate (if i am wrong please say so).

Anyway to the point. Do you think Dragoon will be one of the jobs in the new system? And if so, do you think they will restrict it to the lancer weapons of the armory system?
Also do you think that like in FFXI they will give you a Wyvern or doyou think it will be slightly different and just be more Dragoon type skills? (e.g. Jump)

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If it base on the old ff then yes it would have jump if they base it of FFXI one which they should then it would get a wyvern. I mean if you want ffxi players to play why not add that dragoon not the old one lol.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

If it base on the old ff then yes it would have jump if they base it of FFXI one which they should then it would get a wyvern. I mean if you want ffxi players to play why not add that dragoon not the old one lol.

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well partly because I think most XI players could care less, I personally hate that wyvern now if it was able to grow into a full size wyvern then sure, but to stay as a baby? no thanks. Though I would love to have jump.

Jumping is one of the core abilities of DRG/Lancers in FF history. Kain, Cid Highwind, Lancers in FFT, all of them had variations on Jump.

...Damn it, now I want to play FFT.

I think it would be neat to be able to play as a dragoon and while fighting dragons theres a chance you may learn a Dragon Ability, such as fire breath or ice breath. I supose thats sort of a Blue Mage thing. But i just think it would be neat if dragoons learned from dragons.

Jump is a given. I guess the only discussion I can derive from it is how many versions of jump will be available and for what purpose. The classic use was to avoid damage, and exchange several turns for a large damage spike. XI's version was a tertiary move wherein you used it as enmity shed, a slightly boosted attack, and if you were good at timing a way to avoid damage on yourself. I wonder if those same traits will carry over, or if jump will have new varieties.

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Nah not really, FFXI is the only game with them and all they do is serve as an excuse to weaken the dragoon itself from a design perspective. (Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.)

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I'm not really quite sure you understood the play style and role in dragoon in XI. Dragoon in that game by any means was not nerfed by the presence of the wyvern. Wyvern was fundamental to it's strengths. You had to look at the totaled output of both the payer and the AI. And without going into a long fangirl rant over it, you basically had a melee that because your damage and actions were devided across two separate bodies, your enmity gain was also. The role drg played in that game was to do as much damage as possible without the personal enmity gain other melee classes would get. Pair that with the hate shedding qualities of jump and you were golden. The dynamic of changing the wyvern's abilities with subjobs was also really powerful. Being able to cast equivalent to cure IV for 5 mp cost and zero enmity gain? Awesomely useful if you knew how to take advantage of it.
On my server during my time playing, I was part of the largest NA linkshell. We had basically every endgame or specialty gear availble, and my dragoon was exactly on par in the damage department as our decked out warriors and this was prior to many of the boosts. Adding wyvern didn't make the class weak in any way.

I'd like to bring back wyvern not only for the nostalgia of it, but also all the interesting dynamics it brings to the table. Just having lancer once again with one unique ability to me isn't enough to make the job of dragoon special enough.

My only concern is, as someone else above had mentioned, that the pace of battle in 14 is on hyperdrive compared to 11. Most our room for strategic play or build up is lost to it. That goes for pretty much every class/job though.

I guess if anything wyvern is at least good for a built in always on double attack.

I think they should incorporate a dragon into a weapon skill or two. I don't want it as a pet but imagine doing a ws like dragon chrest from IX and you attack with your weapon and a cool dragon swoops down and either uses its flame breath or something. Maybe have a quest to obtain weapon skill and dragon type used in said weapon skill. Dragon Rush/Thrust? Lol that way we have a dragon to call our own but its not a pet class.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

Indeed. They both can use lance with minimal/no problem...its like we having Thief using knifes, red mages using rapiers and blue mages using scimitars...they're all "sword" in this game and, still, would bring no problem to GLA.

IMO the job system will bring jobs with very few abilities, but they all job exclusive. It might become an one-way deal...jobs can use any class action, but classes cannot use job actions. I believe this would make all jobs unique , but without messing with armory system.

Example: A dragoon wouldn't need WS...it would have jump, elemental breathes and that's it since he can just use LNC's WS with perfect weapon affinity.

A Black mage wouldn't have single target spells. He would only have the full-time AoE Firaga, blizzaga, thundaga, etc. because CON is already bringing the basic elemental spells.

Of course...its just a guess by thinking about the direction the game is taking.

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I don't think its going to work like that.

I think jobs will lock out certain abilities, potentially add some, and enhance others.

Example:

CON gets Black Mage, my guess is that Black Mage won't be able to use CON's Healing or buff spells, but will receive a Magic Attack Bonus and probably abilities like Elemental Seal. They'll also probably get to use THM's debuffs without any cross class penalties.

I think LNC with Dragoon job will receive Jump and Lancet abilities as well as, if we're lucky, a Wyvern like in FFXI -- but until we hear more about pet jobs there's no telling if that will happen.

They already said definitely no pets for now.

I'd rather if Dragoon did not have a wyvern. It doesn't make sense as a pet class.

But I do want stuff like Jump. That's a staple of the job.

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Originally Posted by Synapse

If they were to add Dragoon it would definitely be the specialized class off Lancer. Probably Lancer will attain "Jump" and a version of Puk would be the pet :P! after reaching 50 and doing a quest to evolve into dragoon!

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Anything but puks! They're one of my least favorite mob models D:

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Originally Posted by Sav

Anything but puks! They're one of my least favorite mob models D:

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Haha! I want Ureaus as pet!

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Originally Posted by Kazai

They already said definitely no pets for now.

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Thank God, now we won't be set back in the armor/damage department for balance reasons.

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

Thank God, now we won't be set back in the armor/damage department for balance reasons.

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Exactly. I really don't want a pet. My Highlander Lancer doesn't look like he owns pets, he looks like he eats them.

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Originally Posted by Irana

I do not care much for the wyvern but I do want my Jump back!

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What if 14's Wyvern's used ws and not just ele breaths maybe - ( shoulder tackle - wing cut - some sort of spinning body thrust - Air dive)?

14 graphics could deff make it worthwhile and this skills could maybe be toggled as auto or if you dont want auto Wyverns ws you could use some of your ability bar for your pets Ws so they wont be random

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Originally Posted by Velhart

The whole concept of Dragoon is the ability to Jump. >_>

Can make your wyvern point valid, but a Dragoon isn't a Dragoon if he can't jump, by Final Fantasy standards.

FFIV: Kain's most powerful move is Jump.
FFV: Dragoon job's main concept was using Jump.
FFVII: Cid leaped into the air with some of his abilities.
FFIX: Freya was a Dragoon and Jump was one of her main forms of damage.
FFX: Kimahri has Jump as one of his abilities.
FFXI: Jump, High Jump, and Super Jump helped Dragoon's get TP in a lot faster, and if used correctly, cause a lot of damage.

If you see the name Dragoon.....expect to jump.

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Even if the class/job was not present in name, but Fang's special ability from FFXIII "Highwind" is the coolest and most devastating Jump Ive ever seen in any FF. Its safe to say Fang is a Dragoon, without the obvious name of her Ultimate weapon "Kain's Lance"

So adding to your post, If you see a Dragoon you will definitely see Jump as is their most powerful attack :D

I leave this here ^.~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY64urfxNCw

Dragoons are already in the game, it wouldn't make much sense for SE not to use it as the Job. Unlike previous Dragoons, however, Dragoons in this game are dedicated to the eradication of Dragons.

They were Dragon Killers in XI too (just the unholy ones). Which could very well be a reason/excuse to get a Wyvern/Dragon as Dragoon. Honestly though, if it means weakening the player to get a pet I would say no UNLESS:

1) Pet can get armor to make it stronger
2) It doesn't die in ten minutes from two magical attacks and has a 2 hour recast
3) It can be controlled instead of mimicking
4) Gains useful abilities to aid the Dragoon

But I wouldn't mind an ability that called down a Dragon for some big damage or something and has a big recast (10min or more depending on damage potency).

If there isn't a pet that comes with Dragoon then some moves I'd like to see:
1) Jumps (different kinds more than just the three that XI had)
2) Breaths (of all kinds that exceed past the basic elemental breaths)
3) Dragonheart (auto-reraise from tactics)
4) Dragon Killer trait

That being said, I'm a Dragoon at heart so I'd probably play the job anyway if they only gave us 1 more dmg per hit.

http://i53.tinypic.com/wveibs.jpg

Yes! Dragoon FTW!!! Looks so dark there!

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

They were Dragon Killers in XI too (just the unholy ones). Which could very well be a reason/excuse to get a Wyvern/Dragon as Dragoon. Honestly though, if it means weakening the player to get a pet I would say no UNLESS:

1) Pet can get armor to make it stronger
2) It doesn't die in ten minutes from two magical attacks and has a 2 hour recast
3) It can be controlled instead of mimicking
4) Gains useful abilities to aid the Dragoon

But I wouldn't mind an ability that called down a Dragon for some big damage or something and has a big recast (10min or more depending on damage potency).

If there isn't a pet that comes with Dragoon then some moves I'd like to see:
1) Jumps (different kinds more than just the three that XI had)
2) Breaths (of all kinds that exceed past the basic elemental breaths)
3) Dragonheart (auto-reraise from tactics)
4) Dragon Killer trait

That being said, I'm a Dragoon at heart so I'd probably play the job anyway if they only gave us 1 more dmg per hit.

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I'd personally object to having a fully controllable pet. I didn't level LNC because I wanted a class where I have to pay attention to both my own character and a pet. I wouldn't mind if it was an extension of the player character and mostly just a cosmetic difference to other characters. Some abilities would simply fire from the pet rather than the dragoon and the pet would of course be unkillable and untargetable.

The FFXI dragoon pet constantly died and was originally tied to their 2 hour ability, so that was obviously really bad. They've changed the 2h thing but I still don't really like they way they implemented it there. The very concept of 2h abilities is also really bad, which brings me to another point: I don't want abilities with 10-min recasts. Powerful abilities with long recasts cause spikes in character power, which makes balancing for both PVE and PVP a bit of a nightmare. It's like how in FFXI you could stack a bunch of summoners and spam 2hs to take down a boss or dozens of enemies in a matter of seconds. This godlike power spike would then be followed by a 2h lull of insect like weakness in comparison.

Also, giving any one class a clear edge against certain enemy types will simply lead to people stacking certain jobs against certain enemy types. So assuming this proposed Dragon Killer trait does anything meaningful, you'd want to stack as many dragoons as possible when you want to kill a dragon, which would hurt other classes. Likely the roles would be reversed elsewhere and another class would reign supreme while dragoons are the pariah. It's just not good design even if the armory system slightly mitigates damage from class balance issues.

I've always loved the concept of the Dragoon, from its inception in FF2 (Kain was technically the first DRG to Jump, but not the first in line), up to the massive change it got in FFXI. I loved the wyvern because it gave something to the DRG that was largely missing in the rest of the Jobs: versatility. Granted, the variations were limited or limiting in scope, but no other melee Job could be used in that way.
Would I like the wyvern back? Sure, but it's not mandatory. I'd rather they expanded on the DRG they created with Freya in FF9. A unique skillset that consisted of dragon-based magic and attacks that complimented the great attack power and Jump/High jump abilities. Freya was the most unique DRG in FF history, and deserves to have her abilities brought back to the table.
Like most, if we were to get a wyvern, I would want a level of customization: giving it an original name vice picking from a list, color selection so as not to give the idea that wyverns are inbred, and detail customization like scale style and addition of horns/spikes. I also support a method of control to make the wyvern an extension of your battle strategy rather than an afterthought.
That's just my two gil, though. :D

100% agree with Asherym. I'd like all Freya's powers or something like that. About the wyvern i'm not so sure if I want it or not. But please, PLEASE SE, don't give us breath weapons as in FF Tactics Dragoons, all other skills are fine :D

Oh and DragonKiller seems cool in this game :D

I'm more interested to see what and if there is going to be another job to pick other than dragoons.

I have been a die hard FF Dragoon/Lancer/Dragon Knight fan since I picked up FF Tactics all those years ago. I played FFXI for the life of the PS2 system and still do. I played hours upon hours with my faithful wyvern Eisenzahn. But, that was in FFXI, I'm playing FFXIV because it's got an incredible, and unique story, classes, jobs and races (sorta).

That being said, I have no need to see a FFXI Dragoon in this game, I would like to see Jump definitely in the Dragoon class, which might be coming eventually, but a wyvern has and should always be a FFXI iteration.

With the mutliple FF games that have come about, there should be no trouble for the dev team to create a unique Dragoon class in this game.

Personally I liked the wyvern from XI and would love to see its return. For me it was part of my identity as a dragoon. Does it need to be exactly the same as XI? No, and it probably wouldn't work with XIV. I like some of the ideas already mentioned about making it more customizable or some kind of summon. I really don't care how they do it, I just want my faithful sidekick back.

Woot

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...on/Dragoon.png

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...n/Dragoon2.png

This is definitely Dragoon no doubt about it now.

personally i do not want wyvern :|

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

personally i do not want wyvern :|

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Based on the recently released SS of Dragoon in some nice armour, there is no wyvern floating in sight, just one-big ass Dragon we're attacking. I truly hope this shows that SE will not make Dragoon a pet class. I will be soooo happy if I can be a lone Dragon Knight.

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Originally Posted by Formenotu

Most likely, since they're both lance wielding jobs. Also i hope they dont do the wyvern and jumps to be honest. I mean, yeah, i love the nostalgic view of ffxi, and all the other games that had dragoon in them in the past, but at the same time I want variety. If i wanted to jump and use a wyvern i would play ffxi or ff4.

Basically, do i want the same old route that SE has gone before? Well, only in certain places. I would definately want to see them be way more creative than way more nostalgic, I guess. But keeping a little nostalgia is always a good thing.

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laughing really hard here. a dragoon not jumping would be like a thief not stealing

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Originally Posted by grandm

laughing really hard here. a dragoon not jumping would be like a thief not stealing

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A grounded Dragoon and a morally restricted Thief. Sounds like a sitcom.

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Originally Posted by Belial

I will be soooo happy if I can be a lone Dragon Knight.

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I hope you're completely and utterly miserable then :)

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

I hope you're completely and utterly miserable then :)

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lol. What better brood for an apparently Kain Highwind-inspired class?

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Originally Posted by Belial

lol. What better brood for an apparently Kain Highwind-inspired class?

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What can I say - I desperately miss my Oboro. Lets us both wish misfortune on each other!

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

What can I say - I desperately miss my Oboro. Lets us both wish misfortune on each other!

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I'm in! The forums would be a much better place with good-natured folks like us who don't take offence to every second word. lol.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

What can I say - I desperately miss my Oboro. Lets us both wish misfortune on each other!

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I too miss my Eisenzahn, but I am just afraid that in this game they will have to balance Dragoon to not do as much damage so the added wyvern does not unbalance the damage output. Which sucks if you should happen to lose the Wyvern and be some what nerfed, damage wise.

I dunno, that's just how I feel, maybe they would fix that.