SUMMONER, WHAT WOULD YOU CHANGE OR ADD? (EVOLUTION & STAT ALLOCATION)

I like this idea. For now, I think the egis are good, but down the line, (lv cap increases, etc.) I'd like to see them evolve as you suggested.

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Originally Posted by charlemagne

cleric stance

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Cleric Stance is next to useless for SMN, due to the healing potency reduction when it is activated. The 40% nerf to heals completely negates the increase in MND that you will get from using it.

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

The EGI's need to look more like their Primals, I can deal with alternative forms but some fleshly representation and perhaps a little more flare is in order. I also am a little disappointed that the SMN is more focused on DOTs rather than controlling awesome egi's to destroy their enemies. The Job actually should have been more unique to the FF series in that their solitary way to deal damage is to throw some creature out, even if the summons were timed and required to be sifted in/out, would have be a lot more fun.

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I agree. It feels like the egis are starting out life in its first baby form. This is why I hope they evolve later.

Yes I do wish SMN had more damage come from the pet. Right now the pet itself feels like a dot lol. Hopefully when the cap increases SE will solve some of summoners issues.

They should give Summoners a 5 minute cooldown, when activated it transforms your pet into something larger and resembles the primal it's representing. I don't agree with making the actual primal come out, but something very similar for 60 seconds would be quite cool.

5 min cooldown
60 second duration

perfect for boss fights and boss fights only.

If there was a way to evolve the Egi into forms that matched the FFXI avatar designs, that would be the best day ever.

There is no point to giving egi's options for more points. No one would do anything other but +30 STR for Ifrit-Egi, +30 VIT for Titan-Egi, or +30 INT for Garuda-Egi. What you CAN do is know that it seems SMN egi's stats are based on YOUR stats. If you increase YOUR qualities, boost your percentages higher, then they become stronger. They level with YOU; you don't need to level them.

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Originally Posted by seekerofpower

I point out that Carbuncle was only an avatar of light in 1 game, and it wasn't even a main numbered title. FFXII: Revanant Wings is the ONLY FF GAME WHERE CARBUNCLE IS RELATED TO THE LIGHT ELEMENT. She is normally a NON-ELEMENTAL summon. Once again, you are wrong.

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Two games: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Carbuncle

Searing Light, Meteorite, and Holy Mist all do Light elemental damage.

I wish they'd just make the Egi's look like the XI Avatars. The sizes need not change at all.. Honestly the XI designs for Egi's still keeps things in line with how Yoshida wanted it too, with the Egi's looking different from the Primals themselves. As it is, Ifrit-egi is the closest to being decent looking.. Titan-egi looks silly, plain and simple. And Garuda-egi looks nothing like Garuda at all, which is completely and utterly jarring when compared to the other two, which at least bear resemblances to their primals..

Some other things I'd like are.. making Carbuncle light-based as a few others have mentioned. Also make Topaz a stance form of Carbuncle's instead of an entirely separate summon. Make it a skill where he switches between caster and tanking stances, give it a cooldown if need be, just condense it. Likewise move Garuda and Titan into their own Summoning spells, and let us keep Carbuncle as a novelty - he doesn't need to be good, just give us the option for fun. While you're at it, rename the "Summon I-III" stuff to the names of what we're summoning, and give Garuda and Titan their own icons.. It annoys the HELL out of me that Garuda and Titan have Carbuncle icons, whereas Ifrit does not..

The summoner class has to become more pet oriented. At least thats what he is supposed to excel at. The scholar feels more like a pet class than the smn.
I also like the idea of unlocking the egis full potential after beating the hard version of the primals. This would be similiar to the way you obtained the primals in FFXI.

But overall the skillset has to change. The pet has to become the main dmg/support source instead of the summoner itself. I would like to see the smn having to summon the right pet for the right situation. In that regard FFXI did it right(not arguing the actualy usefulness of the skills but the idea that was tried in FFXI). For example you need support skills/heals you summon carbuncle. You need debuffs you summon Diabolos (not in the game just giving examples) etc.

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Originally Posted by Miiu

The pet has to become the main dmg/support source instead of the summoner itself. I would like to see the smn having to summon the right pet for the right situation.

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I don't mind the playstyle of the current SMN class, it's fun actually, but I agree that it isn't "Summoner" in any way at all. Lackluster visuals aside, the pets really aren't doing much for us.. I feel like Enkindle needs to have a larger looking effect graphic, last longer on screen, deal a LOT more damage, and have a longer cooldown. Hell it can instantly kill the pet and dump its entire hate on you if need be, just make the sig moves nicer! The rest needs work too, but this alone would do so much toward making the class feel.. better.

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Originally Posted by Krisan

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Don't get me wrong I don't want to take away options I want to increase them. I know that there are a lot of people who like the current version of the Summoner(in name only). And I would hate if SE goes okay you want to have more focus on pets here you go all your dot skills get removed or gimped and replaced by something else. So the proposal would be to split the summoner into a new class/job category and keep the current version but under a different name like Red Mage(not perfect but it kinda feels like one inside the FF universe). I know the whole splitting would be tricky and is probably the most unlikely scenario because what would happen to people who wanted the change would they have to level summoner again or do they get a one time switch etc.

why the summoner did get DoT?
simple if he did had attack spell it will have not be different of the BLM.
if all him damage was based on the pet, no pet = no use. (and some endgame are a pain for the pet)

what was the best choice for make a class interesting? DoT+pet. was simple and efficient. that you don't like it, it's understandable, but don't forget to think in terms of the game balance.

Or fix the pet controls give them dodge abilties to get out of certain aereas. :p

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Originally Posted by Nahara

Two games: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Carbuncle

Searing Light, Meteorite, and Holy Mist all do Light elemental damage.

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Ah, so when they said EVERY FF GAME, what they really meant was FFXI? That makes it better...

I wouldn't change the egi's because that's not where the DPS is lacking.

I would love an ability that let's us take all of our dots off a mob and put them on another mob and also refreshes said dots. A simple quality of life change that would increase summoner's dps by a lot.

I also think ruin and/or ruin II should have a 10% chance to refresh the current dots on the mob. And for every dot on the mob, have ruin's damage be increased by 3/6/9%.

We spend too much time recasting dots and not enough time actually nuking the mob.

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Originally Posted by Miiu

The summoner class has to become more pet oriented. At least thats what he is supposed to excel at. The scholar feels more like a pet class than the smn.
I also like the ...........

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I would like if SE gave summoners a trait to decrease the recast timer for Inkindle, and only gave Summoner new abilities that involve the pet when cap is increased.

I like the idea of summoning the right summon for the right situations.

Leviathan egi - Best at single target damage. Only has single target dps attacks
Shiva egi - Best at aoe damage. Only has aoe/cone dps attacks.
Ramuh egi - uses dots every attack. Stacks up to 12. Does most damage in long fights.

I think the above is what we need, as well as a slight increase in egi damage.

First off, I'm going to say it... I WANT A SUPPORT EGI DARN IT!... Okay, moving off that train of thought, it seems to me that summoner got the short end of the stick due to the whole "Every class/job is going to have the same amount of abilities" thing that is currently going on. I want variation, I want to work through my pet, not basically have it as an extreme DoT spell. That is what Garuda and Ifrit currently are, manifestations of a DoT spell. They do not feel alive, they don't feel powerful, they don't feel Final Fantasy-esque.

Please, re-do Summoner, and give us some real pets, that would be fantastic. I'll stay with the job no matter what and I will live and die by summoner, regardless of what they do to it, or don't do to it. But, I really do hope that the devs see their slight mess up and remedy this poor representation of a Summoner.

I would be happy just to have more direct control over my summons:

Pet behavior being consistent in regards to standby/guard and sic/obey without these settings conflicting with eachother. If I want my pet to only attack when I tell them, I want to be able to maintain this without having to revert things after every fight.

Pet skills being usable while casting. Currently the utility of various pet skills for Arcanist, Scholar and Summoner are all negated by the fact that you cannot be casting while you trigger these... Meaning that you have to decide to wait 1 second after using an ability to issue an order before you can use another ability. For scholar, this makes things more difficult to manage when you're needing to heal constantly. This would also make setting up macros easier.

Being able to toggle automatic use of individual skills on the pet so that you could, for example, keep a tank pet that uses its enmity skill on cooldown... But hold off on the stun and protect abilities until the pet is commanded to do so. Perfect World had this functionality more than 6 years ago and it made a world of difference.

I just wish it was more like FFX where I got direct control over the Egi and gave it commands and that's where all the damage comes from and none from the summoner save from a few debuffs that summoner can apply. It would feel a lot closer to summoner then this current copy of wow warlock which is exactly what it is and not very true to the final fantasy series. It would also be a great idea to give the Egi's versatility in what they bring with them to the field which would be fantastic too.

http://i.imgur.com/WvJVMDg.jpg

Updated OP

There should be summoning circles for each respective egi as well.

http://out-phaze.deviantart.com/art/...friit-46596489 for Ifrit for example.

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Originally Posted by Engineer

EDITED OP.

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Fair warning...you might not want to post pictures of unreleased content/models on the official forums.

I'd just like to see some better ways for switching between sch and smn with stats... Either make sch int based healing, or make smn mnd based dmg.

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

I'd just like to see some better ways for switching between sch and smn with stats... Either make sch int based healing, or make smn mnd based dmg.

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Do you think this will make SCH and SMN a bit over powered? Smn would heal really well, as well as Sch dding really well, I like it that we have to select a path. right now the allocation of points only serves purpose in the arcanist class because of this.

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Originally Posted by Keres

Fair warning...you might not want to post pictures of unreleased content/models on the official forums.

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Ramuh egi is released. Its pretty old now.

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Originally Posted by Telvorei

There should be summoning circles for each respective egi as well.

http://out-phaze.deviantart.com/art/...friit-46596489 for Ifrit for example.

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This would make the entrance more epic, maybe upon evolution the addition of the circles would be ideal.

I like it.

I would love to know if the japanese playerbase agrees with us or if we're the only ones giving a damn about this issue.

We discussed your feedback about the design of the egi with the development team. As was mentioned previously during the Beta test, the design planner reiterated that egi were designed to be a manifestation of a percentage of power taken from the primals and are intentionally designed to appear differently from the primal. As such, we aren't planning on changing the look of egi at higher levels.

We will however continue to take in your feedback when creating new egi that will be added in the future.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

We discussed your feedback about the design of the egi with the development team. As was mentioned previously during the Beta test, the design planner reiterated that egi were designed to be a manifestation of a percentage of power taken from the primals and are intentionally designed to appear differently from the primal. As such, we aren't planning on changing the look of egi at higher levels.

We will however continue to take in your feedback when creating new egi that will be added in the future.

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For practical reasons, a huge egi would not be feasible, and really annoying for other players. This is the reason why so many MMOs have also taken the approach of reducing the size of pets, considering they not only take up rendering resources, but they get in the way of mechanics (their hit boxes, covering up floor space so you can't see things, etc)

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

We discussed your feedback about the design of the egi with the development team. As was mentioned previously during the Beta test, the design planner reiterated that egi were designed to be a manifestation of a percentage of power taken from the primals and are intentionally designed to appear differently from the primal. As such, we aren't planning on changing the look of egi at higher levels.

We will however continue to take in your feedback when creating new egi that will be added in the future.

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I completely understand the headache of redesigning the egi's so I'm glad to hear that our feedback will at least influence future designs. Most people probably understand that having a ridiculously large pet is just not good for lag/framerate reasons but we can definitely turn it up to a more appropriate size and a more filling design than the skeletal like figurines we have now.

Also I would like to see summoner be less of a warlock DoT class and more of a well....summoner.

Didn't read all the pages, but couldn't find what I'd like to see for SMN so here I go:
- Add an Assist mode in addition to guard and steady when the pet always attack the last targeted attacked by the summoner
- Make the allow/disallow using special abilities a toggle mode instead of Sic and Obey (So only Attack with toggle special moves on or off and not reseting between commands)
- Reduce Enkindle timer to 2-3 minutes to make it less situational and give SMN a decent AoE at the same time; reducing it even more but adding an Aetherflow charge cost would also work
- Add a 4th Aetherflow charge at 50.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

We discussed your feedback about the design of the egi with the development team. As was mentioned previously during the Beta test, the design planner reiterated that egi were designed to be a manifestation of a percentage of power taken from the primals and are intentionally designed to appear differently from the primal. As such, we aren't planning on changing the look of egi at higher levels.

We will however continue to take in your feedback when creating new egi that will be added in the future.

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What about the stats? Will that change?

Yeah, this is pretty much the reason I don't play SMN. That, and the poor design decision to tie stat builds to the base class. So much for the armory system.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

We discussed your feedback about the design of the egi with the development team. As was mentioned previously during the Beta test, the design planner reiterated that egi were designed to be a manifestation of a percentage of power taken from the primals and are intentionally designed to appear differently from the primal. As such, we aren't planning on changing the look of egi at higher levels.

We will however continue to take in your feedback when creating new egi that will be added in the future.

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That's sad to hear as I guess I wont be playing SMN anymore until they are more interesting.

Egi's look rather terrible and the SMN class itself is rather clunky.

Far too much ramp time, DRG and MNK suffer from this also but not as bad.

But I don't want an insanely large or high poly pet.
I just don't want the ones the summoners have. They look horrible aside from Ifrit...which is tolerable. Even 1.5x the size of the current egi's would be a decent addition to them now. SMN is just too lackluster in both its size and design.
Again, not asking for something twice my size. I'm asking for something however thats NEAR my height. I don't see how that is unreasonable, considering smn'ers at most consist of maybe 1-2 people in any given endgame party...if...and I mean IF even that (2 being the most ive seen for the lolz during a titan run).

I'll be happy as long as the Egi have a bit more detail to them, Garuda lacks some detail from the original but is passable.
I just hope when Shiva and Leviathan come out later on they look more like there selves and not a watered down version.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

We discussed your feedback about the design of the egi with the development team. ....

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I was really looking forward to SMN pre ARR but Egi's really look like ugly blobs. SCH fairies and ARC carby's are so much more easier on the eyes.
Size isn't really the issue, they just look ugly.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

As such, we aren't planning on changing the look of egi at higher levels.

We will however continue to take in your feedback when creating new egi that will be added in the future.

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Can you please increase the polygon/detail of these mini characters at the least, or increase their size by 30% to seem a little less like our non-combat companions and more like fearful Level 50 beings? My Cactuar can't fight but he seems more menacing than Garuda-egi. I played a Summoner in FFXI and it was immensely rewarding. I've tried it in this game and I don't feel like a Summoner at all, more like a Hunter in World of Warcraft. I even made my hair green like Rydia because I love summoning so much, but it's the last class I want to play.

I play Pugilist and I feel like Sabin. I play Paladin and I feel like Steiner. I play Dragoon and I feel like Kain. But when I play Summoner, it doesn't feel like Summoner.

Unfortunately just gotta keep hammering em with feedback until they get the message. Maybe by the time they repeat their lines for the 100th time they'll realize that clearly a significant amount of people are dissatisfied and they'll enhance it. I'm sure there's a number of ways they could improve it w/o completely scrapping the designs and starting over.

^ Seriously. How do fairies and Carby get all the detail and fair sizes for what they are but summoner get the complete shaft in this deal? You don't even see Summoners in endgame anymore, if anyone plays anything its SCH. They're more useful and they look cool. Honestly the only reason anyone gets a summoner anymore is for AoE LB and they can't find a BLM.

These are the worst avatars ever in the history of final fantasy. It was created this way because you ran out of time.. You rushed the job and now it looks like this. Just admit it and change them to look SOME WHAT decent.

You always said you listen to customers and people hate these avatars more then don't. Just change em so we can move on.

My favorite version of the Summoner would be from FFX. You summoned, you buggered off, then you took direct control of the summoned creature. This is what I think the summoner class should be in this game. Not a pet.

Scholar and Arcanist can stay pet-centric. They're fine for the most part.

The Pros:

- One less character to render on screen so they could up the detail of the summoned egi.

- Direct control means less chance of having half your dps on the wrong enemy or a random ability doing something that's detrimental to the group.

- Fewer abilities being cast means fewer spell/ability effects on screen at one time.

The Cons:

- No longer a pet job. Could still use pets as an arcanist though.