Calculated optimal Myth spending for BRDs

dam, when i read this thread, i have to re-read it again 2 times because the similar avatars make me confuse who is saying what.

btw i had for a for the lulz ss set with 152 SS and it only reduce 0.12s on cd. So SS is a dump

52ss actually dropped your GCD by 0.12? That's a lot more than I gave it credit for.

mistyped, it is 152 instead of 52, 4 slot materia each armour part.

Would getting the Hero's Ring of Aiming + Ringbinds for 870 be a better choice than buying the Tights for 825? This is obviously my first Myth spending.
The upgrade straight from DL is:

Ring + Gloves = 11 DEX / 37 Crit Chance (ring upgrade from the AK ring)
Legs = 9 DEX / 34 Crit chance

Is the 2 DEX and 3 Crit worth the extra 45 tomes?

I made this, if you wanna consider coils drops
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Hc&usp=sharing

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

You'd be lucky if you even got any kind of real benefit from 10 crit, by which I mean 0.693% chance to crit.

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the 10 crit that equals 0.693%, what do you base that on? Anything that confirms it? Just out of curiosity since that would help a lot to know :)

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Originally Posted by Zleepyy

the 10 crit that equals 0.693%, what do you base that on? Anything that confirms it? Just out of curiosity since that would help a lot to know :)

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Crit Chance % = 0.0693 x CRT – 18.486

Source: http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id...riticalHitRate

While it's a user-made formula, it is consistent with my current parsed CC% on my own attacks (457 CHC, I usually get just about 13% CC on an extended fight).

Do you think it's logical to upgrade my bow to +1 as of now? (I have the myth pants and ring)

One other factor, which I don't think many people have yet discussed is hit cap. When hit is involved you cannot blindly value accuracy as a valuable stat. Let me give a good example of this, you are hit capped, you can drop 1 Determination, for 50 accuracy, would you do it?

NO.
Why?
50 accuracy
adds +0 dps.

Further complicating the matter:
Reddit - Limit Break Testing

It appears as though DD limit breaks might apply damage based on an average of the group's weapon damage (or weapon ilvl).

So if you take THAT into consideration, then Relic+1 looks a bit more compelling against AF2 pieces than the theorycraft up until now would suggest.

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Originally Posted by Tenkiei

One other factor, which I don't think many people have yet discussed is hit cap. When hit is involved you cannot blindly value accuracy as a valuable stat. Let me give a good example of this, you are hit capped, you can drop 1 Determination, for 50 accuracy, would you do it?

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Shh you're bringing logic into the argument, some here don't like logic. Haven't been to this thread in a while and yet I still see SS discussion, guess people still don't seem to realize that on those alagan/myth pieces that have all that SS they also almost all have accuracy. Keep talking up SS all you want people at the end of the day you'll find out that will all SS gear whether it be ilvl 90 or not you'll be well over(30+) the accuracy cap, so ask yourselves this for a second, if a piece of gear has 2 secondary stats on it that are good for me(det/crit or even the few pieces with SS on them) and many pieces of gear have SS and acc on them where half the stats are already wasted itemization and the other half is already sub par, which is the better choice whether SS has any worth or not?

The original formula appears to be what BRDs would use if they did not care at all about River of Blood... which is a pretty serious undervaluation of CRT.

Which is why my stat weights are much better. Latest revision:

WD 7.849
DEX 1.000
DET 0.228
CRT 0.222
SS 0.131

lol... fun reading all the fights... Bottom Line: Get whatever you wanna get first. It is your character.

I already have the chest. I will progress to pants and fill out rest of the body pieces and will get weapon probably last.

Unless a fight is shorter than 3-4 minute (without SS, it will take 4 minute to run out of TP), SS is a not a dps gain because TP has a fixed regen rate.
So until TP is changed, there is no point in having SS. I would rate SS as 0 for stat weight.

If a piece has SS, than so be it but I would never take any other stat loss for SS.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Which is why my stat weights are much better. Latest revision:

WD 7.849
DEX 1.000
DET 0.228
CRT 0.222
SS 0.131

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How do you arrive at 0.222 for CRT? Not sure CRT should be valued below DTR at all for BRD.

To get this derailed thread a bit more back on topic... everyone and their cousin likes the +1 bow glow, it got me to make that my first myth buy even though I knew the ring or pants were better.

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Originally Posted by Lisotte

To get this derailed thread a bit more back on topic... everyone and their cousin likes the +1 bow glow, it got me to make that my first myth buy even though I knew the ring or pants were better.

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I'm not even sure we can confidently say those pieces are better.
Certainly not from a simplistic auto attack damage formula.

Limit break damage is based on an average of everyone in the group's weapon ilvl. This potential extra damage is ignored in this thread's comparison.
Which food can you eat and remain at accuracy caps if you upgrade one piece over another?
How much Vit you need to survive certain phases of intense aoe damage, and would extra Vit on a piece you're upgrading matter?
Crit carries extra weight due to River of Blood procs (again, not modeled in this comparison).
There are SO many more mechanics to consider than auto attack damage when considering which piece is "better".

What we'd need is a full 3+ minute damage model that includes all the intricate mechanics such as food, river of blood procs, tp starvation if you're having to keep rain of death up, current gear, etc... that can actually be verified in-game against a few gear levels (as everyone knows sometimes tooltips don't match up with the formulas actually being applied behind the scenes).
To my knowledge, no-one has taken it this far yet.

So the best we can do for now is approximate.
But when you compare two approximates, you can only draw conclusions if the approximates show a notable variance, such as what we see with bracer.

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Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

How do you arrive at 0.222 for CRT? Not sure CRT should be valued below DTR at all for BRD.

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I took Merix's base stats, updated them a few times to match other things I was doing (comparing similar stats between DRG/MNK/BRD), used a reasonably robust simple model that includes a full BRD rotation including all skills and modifiers (except Dragoon's Disembowel) to estimate DPS, and then alternatively added 10 Dex, 10 Crit, 10 SS, 10 Det, and 10 Weapon Damage (lol). Divided the results of each stat pump by the Dex result to normalize at a '1.0' value for Dex.

... How else would I do it?

To the top, everything op still holds true correct because I have seen many bards with shirt first.

May be they went shirt coz DL armor look ugly or they love pink :3

Does this even take into account BiS? No way am I going to use myth to buy the boots and neck when Allagan is better. I know drops are limited and random, but seeing as how it will take me til early January to buy everything besides those 2 pieces I think I would rather gamble on luck rather than spend 3weeks of myth tomes on gear that could get replaced the very next day

@Magnesium02
I don't think this is considering BiS.

The way I have it listed is : Coil- Head,Boots,Neck,Ring. Myth- Chest,belt,earring,pants,weapon,gloves,ring.

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Originally Posted by Coraline

The way I have it listed is : Coil- Head,Boots,Neck,Ring. Myth- Chest,belt,earring,pants,weapon,gloves,ring.

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Myth hat is better

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Originally Posted by Zerker

Myth hat is better

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Coil hat is a turn 2 drop which most guilds can get on farm status rather easily making the hat a rather non-optimal early purchase in my opinion.

Silly to make the allagan hat go to alts for a 6 crit increase when myth tomes are so limited.

Why does no one ever take Gryphonskin gear into consideration when making these lists?

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Originally Posted by PopeHat

Why does no one ever take Gryphonskin gear into consideration when making these lists?

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I personally have most of the Gryphonskin gear and I haven't regretted my decision yet. The increase in stats may look small on paper but when it's all added together it's a pretty substantial jump over DL. Sure, I invested quite a bit of time to grind the 20,000+ philosophy tomes to get the armor/accessories but really, what else is there to do at endgame?

Coil only takes 2 hours to clear up to turn 5 and Coil itself exactly crapping out BRD loot left and right. Myth tomes take weeks until you can get your big pieces. That money and time spent is easily made up in that long wait for myth pieces.

Long story short, I say if you're tired of DL and you want a nice upgrade that allows you to be flexible while waiting on Myth purchases by all means go with the Gryphonskin. It doesn't hurt to have extra crit, VIT and determination to better round out your character.

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Originally Posted by Gabbelgak

Coil hat is a turn 2 drop which most guilds can get on farm status rather easily making the hat a rather non-optimal early purchase in my opinion.

Silly to make the allagan hat go to alts for a 6 crit increase when myth tomes are so limited.

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Yeah it almost makes sense to get Allagan over Myth. All these numbers are built around having ilvl70 mixed in till you get full 90.
They are gonna change when CT comes out. But still be the same if you gear out in full ilvl90

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Originally Posted by Songi

I personally have most of the Gryphonskin gear and I haven't regretted my decision yet.

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/applaud to you sir.
I just made a gryphoskin ring. It allowed me to use Dps food instead of Acc food which is a nice tiny buff. Every point you can add up just to do a little more is always good. Sometimes it matters like in Turn 4 if you dont get the first Dread down or the final one while it enrages.

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Originally Posted by PopeHat

Why does no one ever take Gryphonskin gear into consideration when making these lists?

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Because they cost millions of Gil and aren't BiS?

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Originally Posted by PessimiStick

Because they cost millions of Gil and aren't BiS?

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However they are better than darklight which is what people start the comparisons from.

The value in gil is completely irrelevant and would vary from server to server anyway. You can get a gryphonskin tunic for 400k very easily on Malboro and fully materia it out for under a mil unless you have some absurdly bad RNG. Or you can farm the materia yourself which is all the rage right now anyway and while farming the materia get all the animal fat to have it crafted for next to nothing.

Some of us like to do more to better our characters than log on for the 300 weekly mythology tomes then log off.

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Originally Posted by Gabbelgak

Coil hat is a turn 2 drop which most guilds can get on farm status rather easily making the hat a rather non-optimal early purchase in my opinion.

Silly to make the allagan hat go to alts for a 6 crit increase when myth tomes are so limited.

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I didn't say it should be an early purchase. I said the myth hat was better than the Allagan visor.

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Originally Posted by Gabbelgak

Coil hat is a turn 2 drop which most guilds can get on farm status rather easily making the hat a rather non-optimal early purchase in my opinion.
Silly to make the allagan hat go to alts for a 6 crit increase when myth tomes are so limited.

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Even considering it's a Turn2 drop and you have Turn2 on farm, there are 17 possible items from the chest in turn2.
You get 2 chest drops per week, but data so far seems to point to each chest having it's own set of items and I think it's been pretty much confirmed that you can never get a double drop.
So that's a 1 in 9 chance to get the hat each week.

So on average you'll have picked up over 2700 mythology by the time you see the allagan hat.
Not exactly odds I'd base my gear path around.

You're correct that you definitely wouldn't want to buy it first. But there are better pieces to start with anyway.
If you've already picked up a few of the the larger pieces and haven't seen the hat yet, I wouldn't continue to put it off.

*edited to correct chance of seeing hat drop*

Least I know what to get first now. i see many go +1 first and with spreadsheet I wonder why. I guess people think weapon > rest of gear when spreadsheet says otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Yuichi

Least I know what to get first now. i see many go +1 first and with spreadsheet I wonder why. I guess people think weapon > rest of gear when spreadsheet says otherwise.

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Nah I can guarantee most bards that go +1 first do so because they figure because it's the best upgrade for every other class but tank that it's good for them too. Or it could just be the Mor Dhona idiots who spam that they require +1 for everything when they have little understanding about other classes other than their own.

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Originally Posted by Bardo

Even considering it's a Turn2 drop and you have Turn2 on farm, there are 28? possible items from the chest in turn2.

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Casters share drops, healers share drops and tanks share drops. Not 28 items

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Originally Posted by Zerker

Casters share drops, healers share drops and tanks share drops. Not 28 items

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Until it is shown otherwise, the so far confirmed drop list is 17/17/18/18 from the 4 turns that drop loot. Each chest also seems to have 8-9 drops that only it can have, that may be off some since some people consider each chest as a different location so the basis of left/right is off a little.

I went +1 for the glow, it matters a lot to me.

I'm all bling bling now ^_^

Ok guys... I'm so confused now... In need of guidance.

So I went ahead with one myth ring and one myth pants. I now have 300 extra myth tomes and 9 animal fat (was researching about gryphonskin tunic when I found this thread).

Currently on turn 2. To be honest I dont really care about BiS, I just want the best gear for what I have now.

I am so confused as to what gear should I buy next. Should I save the money for myth chest piece,
or
should I buy other myth gear in other word, delay the chest piece and buy the materia for the gryphon tunic instead? If so, what gear? I'm thinking of getting another ring but after all this discussion I'm so confused.