Amdapor Keep Changes Unfair

So, essentially, SE wants me to consider running dungeons a part time job.

I always quit playing MMOs when they feel like work instead of play...Guess what?

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Originally Posted by Rhen

So, essentially, SE wants me to consider running dungeons a part time job.

I always quit playing MMOs when they feel like work instead of play...Guess what?

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And this is the reason we need to keep these posts going. To get the message across that the system the implemented only made the game less fun. I really want this game to be good, but if the current setup and this last patch are any indication of how they plan to handle the game, then its not looking good.

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

Guess what? You don't play any MMO for long, since all MMOs are a grind-fest at end-game, that's the only kind of end-game that exists.

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Apparently I reached my daily post limit, what?

Guess what? Other MMOs grinds arent a single, hour long dungeon which rewards almost nothing, that you have to run 60 plus times to get STARTER gear.
What youre doing is comparing apples to some other fruit -doesnt matter which- that has poisonous spikes in it.

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Originally Posted by Rhen

So, essentially, SE wants me to consider running 1 DUNGEON a part time job.

I always quit playing MMOs when they feel like work instead of play...Guess what?

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Fixed
*yay for 10 character reply limit

Stay vocal, you guys are on to something. But at the same time, you have to keep in mind that rewards shouldn't be handed out so easily either.

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Originally Posted by Alphawins

this change is also going to have another unintended effect. people who have higher gear lvls than others were already extremely elitist in attitude towards others. this is going to get even worse now that it takes so much longer to get the same gear.

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This x 10. People that got freebie speed run gear are now going to become incessant a-holes about gear score. The community takes yet ANOTHER hit. With gear requirements being instituted for fights, this really walls off slower leveling players from higher end content.

It's unfortunate.

People who liked the new trash-mobs and anti-runners that SE implemented are simply the ones who already took advantage on that and now they dun care anymore... but ppl who just got lv 50 and will have to farm tons on DGs for a set that in 3 months is gonna be replaced by other one, have all the rights to be complainting... since a lot of ppl already took advantage of that now taking that away is UNFAIR... wanna do something fair? take all of the equips that ppl got by using AK speedy run and let everyone farm again and we will see who really loves do grind so much as they say here...

u know wht i see here? Hipocrysy thats all...

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Originally Posted by Riffy

Stay vocal, you guys are on to something. But at the same time, you have to keep in mind that rewards shouldn't be handed out so easily either.

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I agree it shouldn't be free loot. Speed running just made it reasonable. Even with speed running it was rare i would end up with a group that would one shot most bosses. Out of 8 runs i got to complete, 1 was a one shot, 1 death on demon wall cause i screwed up, and the restwith multiple deaths on demon wall and last boss combined. I can't even count the failed runs.

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Originally Posted by Rhen

So, essentially, SE wants me to consider running dungeons a part time job.

I always quit playing MMOs when they feel like work instead of play...Guess what?

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Guess what? You don't play any MMO for long, since all MMOs are a grind-fest at end-game, that's the only kind of end-game that exists.

fc's on my realm arent doing so great, i think they only farm ifrit, but i can't even join those since i dont have full darklight and they already have enough tanks with it. By the time a couple months go by and i have my darklight (if i keep playing this bore of a grind) they will be working on titan or coil and ill be further below them. This change implemented is going to have severe negative consequences to the majority of the player base, I only want this thread to stay alive so maybe by some miracle someone at square is made aware of it.

I enjoyed the game very much up unto this point and only want an even playing field again.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Don't give me that. This is the most accessible MMO I've ever seen.

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Where the hell have you been lol. Compared to WoW this game is hardcore.

I see where the OP is coming from. Most of the people that ran to 50 are sitting in full darklight for their main job and clearing coil turns now. For those that want to get in with them it will take a whole lot longer to catch up since they can't do the 20-30 min runs now.

It's not about instant gratification it's more about slapping people with a wall to try to climb over in order to do things with friends and FC. Having to spend 60+ hours on just 1 set of gear in order to go do Titan Hm and start the coil grind is a bit much.

And before the whole "you must not know JP games" etc bs I've grinded with the best of them in EQ and FFXI so I know exactly what grinding is. Hello 3 months of farming keys to VT for 72 people. Point is that it was not needed. They want to force clears I'm fine with that. But give more options as the same old bs every day is mind numbingly boring. Adding in MORE mobs to an already boring dungeon doesn't make it any less boring

Looks like they are back to the old grind and PUNISH!! model of gaming... well that didn't last long...

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Originally Posted by civilpaw

And theres not another option. The crafted ilevel 70 gear is crap in comparison.

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This is hilariously innacurate.

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/7654/7xxm.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img30/4683/hxcq.jpg
Basically on par even without materia, better with.

Now, that doesn't change the fact that getting the 1125 tokens needed to craft a piece is more work than getting darklight, but saying i70 crafted is crap is just wrong.

this endgame system reminds me of teras endgame token system... Gross.

I'm not saying anyone here is guilty of this, but a lot of people absolutely refuse to join an FC. I've not once gotten a legit reason why. Then people cry about duty finder and/or having nobody to grind with to make it easier. Then complain about FCs getting things done in a faster, more organized manner.

Explain, please. I'm not slamming anyone, I just don't get it... go join an FC. I have one on Malboro if anyone wants in, a good handful of 50s and we run everything together.

I agree they are unfair too with the new changes ... so basically SE told Legacy Players like me "screw you and go grind" and the new player base somewhat happier so they can grind the whole dungeon sure give or take some new players can handle speed runs and others can't. If I recall back in 1.0 they made people for "A Relic Reborn" Quest.. Run 17 minute Speed Runs on Aurum Vale and Cutters Cry. So if you were ok with Speed Runs 17mins back in 1.0 then why can we not speed run here in 2.0?
In all Honesty they should have just implemented a two way system on the Duty Finder Speed Run and Non-Speed Run. Anyways I don't mind talking to new player base don't mind playing with them but when they have to go start something on furoms yes the guy who made the post on anti-speed run mechanism makes older player vets not so happy.

Instant gratification is what I'm seeing people ask for. You complain that ~1 hour to complete Amdapor Keep is too time consuming? Just run it once a day. What is your rush? Why are people so obsessed with getting the best gear in less than a month? This is an MMORPG; it is meant to take time to progress and get the best gears over the course of weeks/months.

Trust me when I say that you would not have lasted more than a day in the original EverQuest.

@OP - You might be a bit too spoiled from World of Warcraft and the most recent super casual MMO's.

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Originally Posted by KujinRen

Instant gratification is what I'm seeing people ask for. You complain that ~1 hour to complete Amdapor Keep is too time consuming? Just run it once a day. What is your rush? Why are people so obsessed with getting the best gear in less than a month? This is an MMORPG; it is meant to take time to progress and get the best gears over the course of weeks/months.

Trust me when I say that you would not have lasted more than a day in the original EverQuest.

@OP - You might be a bit too spoiled from World of Warcraft and the most recent super casual MMO's.

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I am spoiled with the promise of entertaining content, yes.

A lot of people seem to forget that this is supposed to be a game, and that it's meant to have some sort of element of entertainment attached to it.

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Originally Posted by KujinRen

Instant gratification is what I'm seeing people ask for. You complain that ~1 hour to complete Amdapor Keep is too time consuming? Just run it once a day. What is your rush? Why are people so obsessed with getting the best gear in less than a month? This is an MMORPG; it is meant to take time to progress and get the best gears over the course of weeks/months.

Trust me when I say that you would not have lasted more than a day in the original EverQuest.

@OP - You might be a bit too spoiled from World of Warcraft and the most recent super casual MMO's.

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another person missing the point. the point is many people, yourself included most likely already benefited from the speed runs. i want this game to have a healthy future and forcing people to grind gil and professions or running the same dungeon for 60+ hours is not good for the future health of the game.

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Originally Posted by Alphawins

the point is they made this grind 300-500% longer making it unfair to the people who just leveled or dont have a lot of time to play as it is

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They didn't make it longer at all. They've actually made it the intended length they decided on when they designed this part of the game. The "speed run" exploit made it faster, is all.

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Originally Posted by KujinRen

Instant gratification is what I'm seeing people ask for. You complain that ~1 hour to complete Amdapor Keep is too time consuming?

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The point isn't the hour. The point is the need to kill lots and lots of trash over and over and over and over again for zero reward. The trash drops nothing. There is no reward from killing the trash. There is no reason to kill the trash. The trash wrecks your gear and increases your repair costs for zero reward. I'd be happier if the game forced my party to stand at the entrance for 20 minutes and then teleported us past all of the trash to go fight the boss, because at least then I wouldn't have to deal with gear damage. I certainly wouldn't be *missing* anything that I might otherwise get.

Im totally ok with killing trash... The issue is I've never played a game where the trash mobs are a bigger waste of time. They are all loaded with health and offer 0 incentive to kill them. No EXP No Money No "Good" Items *(I am defining good as an item that i dont consider a waste of bag space, which is every item they currently drop.)

Dont be smart asses 1 gil is a waste of time..

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Originally Posted by Themis

They didn't make it longer at all. They've actually made it the intended length they decided on when they designed this part of the game. The "speed run" exploit made it faster, is all.

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intent is a mute point since it HAPPENED already and there were no roll backs thusly, unfair

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Originally Posted by ChoboFreek

You don't have to do speed runs to get end game gear.
Take up a craft and earn enough gil to make HQ ilvl 70 gear.

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And this tells me you know nothing of the ilevel 70 crafted gear. You need double the amount of tomestones in materials from the darklight vendor just to make one piece for the slot you are trying to fill. Learn your fact before you go saying stupid things. (this is not counting all the OTHER mats you need either)

A lot of things aren't fair.

Just saying.

you dont need to run AK for tier 1 tomes...run castrum with an 8 man, takes about 25min and is utter faceroll you dont even need to kill half the mobs, you use the cannons to kill them all after the second boss.

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Originally Posted by SKYeXile

you dont need to run AK for tier 1 tomes...run castrum with an 8 man, takes about 25min and is utter faceroll you dont even need to kill half the mobs, you use the cannons to kill them all after the second boss.

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maybe if you have a group of people who have all done it before and no one watching cutscenes, otherwise it turns into a whinefest of people grinding tomes telling people who are enjoying the story to watch it in the inn.

p.s. this still doesnt do anything to the minimum 8 hour grind to cap mythology every week

This shizz is a mess.

I agree with you there Rhen

Yup unfair but this is life.

Se did fcked up though giving people some unfair advantages usually causes downfall.

The sad part is, since the speed run nerf, people are requiring geared players to run ak and castrum so basically only those who exploited it are the ones who can run it. Others are stuck with pugs who cant even get pass the 2nd wall.

I guess its deadend for those who havent had the opportunity to do fast runs

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Originally Posted by civilpaw

..

See, the AF2 gear isnt the only option at that point. Im absolutely fine with the Mythology tokens being a means of supplementing raid gear. Same in WoW with Valor points. Except Valor isnt a huge pain in the ass to get, and you dont actually need it, as getting in to the end game content isnt a huge hurdle. Its the endgame itself is the hurdle (fairly low set hurdle, but fun).

The grind for Darklight is boring. And theres not another option. The crafted ilevel 70 gear is crap in comparison.

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crafted ilvl70 gear w/ melds is far superior to darklight

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Don't give me that. This is the most accessible MMO I've ever seen.

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Yea especially how simple it is to play and stupid proof.

Welcome to life. Life is unfair..deal with it. I prefer my gear to not be handed to me anyways..among with most other people. Play an easier grind game imo.

Everyone that thinks Darklight is entry level gear need to look at the AH your better off finding crafter to craft your stuff which is already better than darklight.

im gonna have to agree, the amount of time invested to get a single piece of darklight is pretty ridiculous

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Originally Posted by Spythe

Everyone that thinks Darklight is entry level gear need to look at the AH your better off finding crafter to craft your stuff which is already better than darklight.

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except for the fact that the crafted gear takes even longer to craft than the darklight is to obtain

Gonna start my grind when I get off work. Haven't tried any of them yet and they already been hit with a patch. LOL

Boo Hoo... they fixed something that was being exploited and now people are crying. If you don't like the way the game is setup then don't play. FFXIV is a game that is to be enjoyed over a period of time, not something you beat in 30 days and call it quits. (However after reading these forums lately I hope alot of the people here go play elsewhere). All you people need to go to some F2P game where you just buy the best gear and then sit in town and chat and admire yourselves. Some of us actually like working for our gear. Its not very special if its easy to get and done so via an exploit.

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Originally Posted by ChoboFreek

You don't have to do speed runs to get end game gear.
Take up a craft and earn enough gil to make HQ ilvl 70 gear.

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this.
Oh yeah, and I`m also upset I don`t have full epix after 2 runs. FIX IT SE!

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Originally Posted by Selyndria

Boo Hoo... they fixed something that was being exploited and now people are crying. If you don't like the way the game is setup then don't play. FFXIV is a game that is to be enjoyed over a period of time, not something you beat in 30 days and call it quits. (However after reading these forums lately I hope alot of the people here go play elsewhere). All you people need to go to some F2P game where you just buy the best gear and then sit in town and chat and admire yourselves. Some of us actually like working for our gear. Its not very special if its easy to get and done so via an exploit.

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if it was an exploit that needed fixing, then why do all the people who exploited get to keep their benefit?

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Originally Posted by ChoboFreek

You don't have to do speed runs to get end game gear.
Take up a craft and earn enough gil to make HQ ilvl 70 gear.

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Except I still need tomestones to make those so still have to make ridiculous amount of dungeon runs. There is no decent gear that can be crafted that does not required prior dungeon grinds.