Is bard dps the weakest?

having a high crit and having an attack off the GCD that can be reset from crits off dots you put is insanely good..

I'm pretty sure everyone has high crit (though we have about 10% more from straight shot buff) but crit only gives 50% bonus damage so it isn't that great.

I feel like bard damage is honestly lacking even after all the math is done. Heck even the summoner pets hit harder with their normal attacks than our normal attack (170+ damage compared to 120)

Every heavy shot we do has a 20% chance of having a critical.

Barrage is also a unique buff we have that really piles up on the damage. Auto attack hitting for 200-300 3 times in one quick succession with all your other buffs up.

Bard doesn't put out the biggest numbers but we get a lot more attacks in between due to bloodletter resetting.

But see that's the thing. Bard potency is on the lower end. 150 for heavy shot, 140 straight shot, 150 bloodletter etc. Look at black mages. Fire is 150 but they get umbral fire buff PLUS their weapon damage is 50% higher in damage which means all their attack deals 50% more damage. They are hitting for 600 every 2.5 sec with the occasional 900 Fire IIIs. At the same time, look at summoners. The pet deals more damage than our auto attacks and they also have 50% more damage on weapons which means 50% more potency for each DoT and I have to say, their DoTs hurt!

But I do get your point. We attack more. I just don't see it adding up as much as black mages or summoners.

I wish parsers and combat logs would get updated and fixed so we know for sure...unless there's some sort of simcraft we could use.

Black Mages have spellcasting times. We don't.

Black Mages interrupt their attacks by moving. We don't.

Black Mages have to spend several seconds refilling their MP. We don't.

Black Mages put out the biggest numbers in the game but big numbers does not translate to highest dps.

And they're not doing 600 every 2.5 seconds because every 4-5 fires, they're out of MP and have to spend 10+ seconds refilling their MP.

I'm pretty sure they only spend one cast of blizzard 3 to get their MP back. It's pretty fast, and takes way less than 10 seconds and then they're back to blowing stuff

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Originally Posted by savant07

But I do get your point. We attack more. I just don't see it adding up as much as black mages or summoners.

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I wish the same.

Like you said our scaling from WD/Determination is lower compared to other class.
However we have a higher scaling from crit just because of bloodletter proc.

Is the scaling the same as other DPS ? That's very hard to tell.

Also there is very important part in BRD rotation : crit buff (also damage) must be applied before any DoTs. If this not done correctly, the dps loss is HUGE. Less crit on DoT ticks but also a lot less Blood letter proc.
Even with broken parser, the difference is about 20 dps between a good and a bad rotation (this is from personal experience)

With songs your dps will go down, I think its like 10 or 20%, pay attention to that, and know when to use songs, and then when to maximize dmg. BLM or BRD, or go home is how it is right now. So you're crazy a little bit, but its ok ^^

Hamsteak, we Bards have been trying to keep that under wraps, now that you said it out loud SE is going to nerf us. Thanks a lot...

White Mage here just throwing in my two Gath-stolen gil.

If the Bards out there manage to keep Rain of Death more or less up, that damage savings helps me MP and enmity-wise. So even if you're not the top of the DPS chart that run, you've helped saved the party by 10% on a few fronts.

And if you're feeling suuuper saucy during a burn phase/window, run into battle with Foe's Requiem and when I'm in Cleric's Stance, you've upped my damage by 10% (so add 10% of my damage to your DPS). Same for any Black Mages in the party, take 10% of their damage and add it to your score, because you're responsible for it.

I think Foe's Requiem may be the only song (aside from Swiftsong) that doesn't lower your damage.

I don't like using rain of death when I feel it's redundant and not needed. I feel it's more important to focus on dps to kill things faster. I tend to use rain of death when the tank is in a tight spot.

I also never play Requiem unless there's a Black Mage in the party. Rather save the MP for Ballad if I see the healer's running low.

Not only is Rain of Death a only 110 potency attack, it also costs 200 tp >.>

Frankly if it was cheaper (60 or 70), I would actually contemplate putting it up.

But 200 TP means that after 40 seconds (two applications), our Invigorate would just about cover it...then we're boned.

We already have to use invigorate on CD just to keep rougly tp stable (on multidotting instances and lots of target switching, we still lose TP about 150 a minute).

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Not only is Rain of Death a only 110 potency attack, it also costs 200 tp >.>

Frankly if it was cheaper (60 or 70), I would actually contemplate putting it up.

But 200 TP means that after 40 seconds (two applications), our Invigorate would just about cover it...then we're boned.

We already have to use invigorate on CD just to keep rougly tp stable (on multidotting instances and lots of target switching, we still lose TP about 150 a minute).

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For basic content, yeah, RoD isn't necessary. Heck it's not even noticeable for a long time. But if your FC is having trouble on Garuda or Titan, it's a big help. When you get to Coil, it's really about half the reason you even bring a Bard.

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Originally Posted by Powercow

For basic content, yeah, RoD isn't necessary. Heck it's not even noticeable for a long time. But if your FC is having trouble on Garuda or Titan, it's a big help. When you get to Coil, it's really about half the reason you even bring a Bard.

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I can see it being used perhaps right before a big attack (200 tp every 2 minutes or so is not so noticeable), but keeping it up is a pain.

Perhaps right at the 6 stomp of Titan would be nice.

However, both for both garuda and titan DPS seems to be a much bigger issue than healing power, and therefore my biggest job is to either requiem the BLMs or manasong for the healers if they really need it.

Will have to see if the dps loss from singing is better or worse than the tp loss from keeping up rain.

EDIT: I saw a video of coil and the tank damage is severe enough that I can see rain being useful there.

However my FC is nowhere close to it so I've put it out of my mind for now.

In a perfect, unrealistic setting (target does not move, target does not spawn adds, target rarely AoEs): Monk is king.
In a favorable setting (target can move, target only spawns one-two adds, target AoEs rarely): Summoner is king.
In a common, realistic setting (target moves frequently, target spawns adds, target AoEs frequently): Bard is king.
In a setting where adds are required to be controlled constantly (either via status effects or outright killing them): Black Mage is king.

I've not played much of Dragoon, so I don't know where they fit (probably one step behind Monk in a perfect setting). Realistically, Bard will always be top DPS because of how fights/enemy AoEs are currently implemented and the problems other classes suffer. The simple ability to attack while on the move will always put Bard one step ahead of the rest unless enemy AoEs and adds are radically changed.

Damn the 1000char cap.

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Originally Posted by Powercow

For basic content, yeah, RoD isn't necessary. Heck it's not even noticeable for a long time. But if your FC is having trouble on Garuda or Titan, it's a big help. When you get to Coil, it's really about half the reason you even bring a Bard.

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The only time we've even thought about using RoD was during Turn 4. The first two bosses don't do enough damage for the 10% to be needed. But I suppose it all depends on the tanks/healers gear.

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Originally Posted by savant07

I'm pretty sure everyone has high crit (though we have about 10% more from straight shot buff) but crit only gives 50% bonus damage so it isn't that great.

I feel like bard damage is honestly lacking even after all the math is done. Heck even the summoner pets hit harder with their normal attacks than our normal attack (170+ damage compared to 120)

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i'm talking about river of blood.. not the damage of crit itself.. spam more blood letter

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Originally Posted by Lecreuset

i'm talking about river of blood.. not the damage of crit itself.. spam more blood letter

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The only problem is, I don't see it proccing that often or often enough to make bard dps competitive.

Say you have maybe 25% crit with straight shot buff that's about 12.5% proc change for each DoT tick? Except each DoT tick is only every 3 sec and they are not even on a separate timer, they are on a universal server timer of some sort. At 25% crit, I think the proc rate chance is just too low.

The best AK run I had was with 2 Bards, in and out in 13 minutes flat. I have Mischievous Mogbow and other had the Relic bow. On Demon wall the wall was dead by the time the 2 bees popped, which is crazy! But BRD is at the top of the charts for DPS.

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Originally Posted by savant07

See, I can't seem to see them doing high damage compared to summoners, black mages or monks. Black mages and summoners have about way more weapon damage which translate to their potency being twice as better which then results them in doing 500 hits or DoTs ticking for 200-300. It's insane. So I'm wondering, how can bards compete if they hit for 200 on heavy shots and blood letters and those take 2.5 sec GCD (other than blood letter of course) but 200 for every 2.5 sec isn't really...strong. It's half of a black mages hit and equal to one DoT tick.

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Bards have many skills that aren't attached to the GCD not just Bloodletter

Either the OP isn't geared or his macros aren't set up correctly is the only way I can see him asking this question.

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Originally Posted by Powercow

For basic content, yeah, RoD isn't necessary. Heck it's not even noticeable for a long time. But if your FC is having trouble on Garuda or Titan, it's a big help. When you get to Coil, it's really about half the reason you even bring a Bard.

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If you balance songs correctly 200tp wont cost a thing.

Well being the safest ranged damage job in the game I would hope they do the least amount of damage of the DD classes. That isn't the case though, the job is extremely powerful right now and imo is the most efficient DD job for getting things done, they put other jobs to shame with their versatility and solid damage.

Summoners are highly lacking in DPS. I would love to party with a bard.

Do Qarn with two summoners and see where it gets you. Then do it with two bards. Admire the results.

I felt the same way. I thought my Bard wasn't good enough, just for MP regen.

Bard has the strongest dps imo. Not the strongest burst but the strongest dps.

With bard i usually finish amdapor keep within 15mins. Semi geared bard is 20mins. With other dps class geared is 20 and semi is 25mins


I chose ak as basis because ak is pretty much a dps race dungeon

Not sure how you guys even come to this conclusion. I am constantly doing most damage in both dungeons and FATEs (using parser). Albeit I'm not cap yet, I doubt the situation changes that much.

Stack crit gear. Keep up straight shot and windbite/venomous bite, Bloodletter on every cooldown, and spam heavy shot until you get Straighter shot procs. Once tank has a bit of threat, pop Agi potion then Quelling Strikes/Hawk's Eye/Raging Strikes/Internal Release and enjoy threat-less Full Crit Fapping time.

Have you ever tried it with good summoners or black mages?

I don't know...they seem very versatile but when it comes to pure numbers, I just can't imagine them out doing all other DPS classes. I guess this is assuming perfect rotations and tank and spank that a bard would lose DPS but I suppose fight mechanics changes things quite a bit as well as player skill.

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Originally Posted by Dethevn

Not sure how you guys even come to this conclusion. I am constantly doing most damage in both dungeons and FATEs (using parser). Albeit I'm not cap yet, I doubt the situation changes that much.

Stack crit gear. Keep up straight shot and windbite/venomous bite, Bloodletter on every cooldown, and spam heavy shot until you get Straighter shot procs. Once tank has a bit of threat, pop Agi potion then Quelling Strikes/Hawk's Eye/Raging Strikes/Internal Release and enjoy threat-less Full Crit Fapping time.

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How much crit do you have and how often does your bloodletter proc cause right now for me, it procs rarely.

The thing about bards isnt about big numbers, its how you are able to dodge aoes while still attacking the boss. Other dps will lose dps once they run around aoes while bard can pretty much keep on dpsing even while moving. This makes them deal the most damage even if they do not hit for big numbers. So yeah bards are pretty much one of the top dpsers right now

To everyone posting and reading this, sorry if I'm asking a lot of questions and all, I'm not trolling, it's just that from the numbers perspective I cannot see them doing that much.

Like for example, I know they do good damage while on the move but so do summoners and their pets continue to attack while they are moving and DoTs continue to tick and they do ALOT of damage due to their higher weapon damage (50% stronger attacks on all attacks) Their pets doing maybe 150-200? Bloodletter only seems to be doing 200 same with heavy shot etc.

Black mages hit for a lot and they hit often enough that their damage does add up but granted movement on encounters does suck. But they still hit like trucks. One Fire or Fire III is about 3 heavy shots worth of damage.

Also, where are all the data/xperience of people saying bards are top DPS right now? Cause in the other threads and according to some streamers doing coil of bahamut turn 1-5 say summoners own the DPS race.

You posted ur post and got feedbacks, but you don't believe it. Why post?
If you really don't like ur BRD that much, re-roll :p

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Originally Posted by savant07

Well it's not that I'm crazy or anything, it's just that I see so many posts about other classes, specially summoners, that they are doing INSANE damage compared to other classes but I see none about bards which makes me wonder if bards are simply the lowest DPS class and no one wants to speak about them.

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your playing your class wrong.

After having tanked my fair share of AKs while running parser, if the bard is decently geared hes #1 on dps unless he just flat out doesnt know his rotations.

Having played my bard currently level 45, im out damaging everyone im running lower level dungeons with.

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Realistically, Bard will always be top DPS because of how fights/enemy AoEs are currently implemented and the problems other classes suffer. The simple ability to attack while on the move will always put Bard one step ahead of the rest unless enemy AoEs and adds are radically changed.

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I must agree to this, as someone who used to play WoW, the mechanic in FF14 is normal, some are even easy to me. Almost all of them are "avoid that red line/avoid the direction of that boss", which, as long as you didn't lag, you should have no problem.

If SE ever wanted to increase the difficulty in those fight, they should make the boss do targeted debuff(The doom in Temple of Qarn for eg, that's a good example, but poorly designed) instead of spamming AoE skill.

Then again... we still have console to worry about. I'd love to see how SE work their way around this problem, as increasing difficulty might make it imposible for console.

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Originally Posted by Heroe

your playing your class wrong.

After having tanked my fair share of AKs while running parser, if the bard is decently geared hes #1 on dps unless he just flat out doesnt know his rotations.

Having played my bard currently level 45, im out damaging everyone im running lower level dungeons with.

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Aren't parsers broken right now and shouldn't be trusted?

O.o bards =)

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Originally Posted by Heroe

your playing your class wrong.

After having tanked my fair share of AKs while running parser, if the bard is decently geared hes #1 on dps unless he just flat out doesnt know his rotations.

Having played my bard currently level 45, im out damaging everyone im running lower level dungeons with.

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What parser are you using?

You're talking as if all the fights are just plain tank and spank. And even if that were the case I'm still confident how good Bard dps is.. I wish bard had more support abilities than just the songs and the -10% damage dealt debuff. AoE dps though expensive(though you have invigorate from lancer cross) on the TP is pretty amazing. Those Plumes in Garuda hard mode don't stand a chance

If you still have any complains then just play those other classes that you think are so good. Problem solved

I can't believe all of you guys taking this guy as if he is serious after 8 pages of playing the devil's advocate. anyone who has stuck with the class to 50 knows that bard is a good damage dealer, and even if we weren't we still have songs and the ability to apply enemy spell casting speed slow and enemy damage reduction. stop playing into this troll's hands.

If it were not for bards, many of the more enduring fights would have MP/TP users quaffing potions. This poses three unique problems...

1: Waiting for cooldown timer on potions
2: Lost revenue (having to resupply potions)
3: Lost DPS (not just from Summoners and Black Mages either, don't count out the tank-type classes)

We bards are DPS batteries... we work damage through the other classes as well, hence, "support class" on description.

Funny, this was a test ran not but two days ago; avoid people complaining about "...you weren't in range of me to hear your song!" and, "...you're supposed to support the whole party!". 2 bards, 1 stone...

POSITIONING IS KEY (can't say it enough) (continued next page...)

Bard-A can stay closer to the fight and run Foe Requiem, switching to Army's Paeon when TP users need the boost. Bard-B positions halfway between the Bard-A and MP users. Because songs drain MP, Bard-A supporting TP users/DPS with FR and AP can leech MP regen from Bard-B; MP user support.