Amdapor Keep exploit, and what do the Devs think?

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Originally Posted by Mikedizzy

You shouldn't have to kill anything you don't want to...if they want you to kill it all then they should put in something that makes you. You do not have to fight every mob you come across in the open world do you?? I also agree that if you are running the Dungeon for the 8-10th time to either gear out or gain Mythology that would really suck to have to keep beating all those mobs...especially when you are not leveling because you are already at 50.Can someone tell me if you just flat out stop gaining XP at 50 or does it "secretly" still track??

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50 = no XP
so it really isn't worth it

I always ask my party if they want me to rush or take their time. I usually prefer to rush by now but I don't want to ruin others people fun.
If it's a group with people doing it for the first time, I'll always pick the "kill everything" option. Because I know that wipes are a higher possibility. And there's the coffers as well off course.

As long as you have to or feel forced to "grind" a instance to get that drop or to get those things so you can get this or that item. Then ppl will always find a way to cut corners to lower the time spent in a dungeon, so you faster can get in and do it again.

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Originally Posted by hamsteak

i remember back in phase 2 when dungeon mobs didn't leash... but then they changed it because people did 5 minute haukke manor runs

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How do you Speedrun haukke ? O.o Run Through all Enemies or what ? You still need to do all Bosses i guess ? I mena you need the Keys

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Originally Posted by Estellios

They could just make everyone in the party get a tiny bit of hate when dungeon monsters are aggro'd, like how it was with some events in 11.

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Why it hasn't been like this from the beginning, I don't know.

demon wall using glitch = exploit that needs to be patched and rewards taken from those that participated

amdapor keep using death = creative use of game mechanics that needs to be patched

Well, I'll just add my 2 gil to the conversation just for the hell of it...

Speedrunning Amdapor is much, much harder than doing it the normal way. Not only does a wipe on a boss mean you have to start over again through the gauntlet of doom, but the actual run requires more coordination and gear (at least for the tank) than simply killing everything. None of the trash in Amdapor is hard if you fight it as a single pack. The run is much more dangerous and is the closest thing to "excitement" you can get with boring trash mobs.

Not there yet, but I hope for a fix. Reward or blockade, I care little, but a fix should happen.

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Originally Posted by Raeletta

Not there yet, but I hope for a fix. Reward or blockade, I care little, but a fix should happen.

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Why? I really don't see a problem with speedrunning it. This was encouraged in 1.0.

Speed runs aren't an exploit. No bugs are used, no glitches, etc. It's a clever use of game mechanics and you can't be banned for that. That's like saying having a pld stun Ifrit HM eruptions is bannable because it's too smart to do.

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Originally Posted by Ariyn

Speed runs aren't an exploit. No bugs are used, no glitches, etc. It's a clever use of game mechanics and you can't be banned for that. That's like saying having a pld stun Ifrit HM eruptions is bannable because it's too smart to do.

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There is a bug that some people use with Demon Wall, however. This needs a patch ASAP.

I love how all the "suggestions" are
"Make the game worse!" "Make the timesinks even longer!" "Force people to play the way I think is right!"

How about this....make the trash worth killing and people will kill it without being forced. If you qued for duty finder expecting a group thats gonna sit there and let you watch all the cutscenes without crying about it then your naive. If you joined a duty finder expecting the group to play your way...when your way is longer and a waste of time to begin with. You're naive. I swear, all these people whining about DF groups need to form a static or join a FC. That's why they put them in the game.

If previous handling of "exploits" can be used as precendent.. stuff like 1.0 Garuda and Dawn Drops, the people using the "exploits" will get off with no punishment, while those who follow after it is patched will have to deal with the consequences.

Personally, if they're going to do their "previous method" of patching "exploits," I'd rather they not do anything.

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Originally Posted by indira

they just need to add kill gates like PSO or other dungeons where you have no choice but to kill everything just to move on.

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^^
This is a great fix - especially for final boss door.


Other ideas (to mix it up):

• Random mob in room holds key for door
• Trash mobs have small chance at dropping currency
• Chest/currency drops scale with # of mobs killed
• Boss power/HP is amplified by the # of mobs remaining in dungeon (different attributes tied to different types of mobs)
• Doors that unlock only when a certain species of mob has been wiped out (could change randomly with each run)
• Currency drops from separate chest which spawn when a certain % of mobs killed (threshold be randomized from a range [eg. 50~80%])
  
  

Or how about you just stop whingeing and being a killjoy? If you want to run the whole dungeon then run the whole dungeon. If the majority of players are doing speedruns then it's because they want to do speedruns. They aren't breaking the game mechanics, they are just enjoying the content how they want to enjoy it which is frankly none of your business.
Why should they be forced to play how you want them to play?

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Originally Posted by charlemagne

Or how about you just stop whingeing and being a killjoy? If you want to run the whole dungeon then run the whole dungeon. If the majority of players are doing speedruns then it's because they want to do speedruns. They aren't breaking the game mechanics, they are just enjoying the content how they want to enjoy it which is frankly none of your business.
Why should they be forced to play how you want them to play?

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I haven't found a group that wants to non-speed run it in about 4 days.

So technically, they're the ones forcing me to play in their manner. Your post seems silly.

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Originally Posted by Keyln

Personally, I like the idea of having a little bit of hate on the entire party if someone aggros something...

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This is the simplest solution if SE intent is for group to clear trash mobs, the moment someone engages the entire party goes onto the mobs aggro table, sac pulls become impossible. However, it's also the most "flipping-the-bird-at-the-players" solution, so maybe a reward incentive is better.

if you don't like speed runs, group with people you know who also want to clear the dungeon slowly.

if you like speed runs, group with people you know who also want to clear the dungeon quickly.


if you want a wild ride, solo queue for duty finder.



simple enough fix?

You=1, they=3.

It's clearly you that wants the break from what the community has decided is the normal way to do it. And since when did we decide that killing all the mobs was the "correct" way to do it anyway? the object is to win through the dungeon isn't it? How people do that is up to them.

Just ignore duty finder players. That simple. Let them whine and play the way you want. They are not gonna pop out of your screen and punch ya. Worse case scenario your kicked-> just a few minutes until you are in a new group. And if your leader, kick em as soon as they open their mouth. After all, the fact it's so easy to get a group is why the DF players are so demanding, they know they can get a group in a few. So if you don't want to "speed" run then don't do it.

Killing the trash is tedious and pointless.

This may be a farm dungeon, but TSW for example eliminated most of the trash in dungeons because they realized what people actually enjoyed about dungeons and raids were the boss fights.

Give me more boss fights and less trash.

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Originally Posted by charlemagne

Why should they be forced to play how you want them to play?

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You did this on purpose - No one would post about majority of the playerbase speed running then end their post with "Why should we be forced to not speed run" without knowing you're trolling purposefully.

If you load up DF, you'll be 9/10 forced to Speed Run, why should people be forced to speed run? Oh that's right..."If it's what I support and want to do it's ok to force others but if you so much as dare try to play your way and I'm in your party..."

Vanilla WoW. Scarlet Monastery. If you went in without clearing ALL the trash, everything you didn't kill would come attack during the boss.

I joined two parties just now all are speed-run. WTH of these people!!! How about the first timer don't know what happened and ruin their speed-run plan. If failed, rage quit! Usually rage quit one is tanker!

If I meet this kind of parties again I will just rage quit!

I say we all rage quit speed run parties.

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Originally Posted by nukempro

I love how all the "suggestions" are
"Make the game worse!" "Make the timesinks even longer!" "Force people to play the way I think is right!"

How about this....make the trash worth killing and people will kill it without being forced. If you qued for duty finder expecting a group thats gonna sit there and let you watch all the cutscenes without crying about it then your naive. If you joined a duty finder expecting the group to play your way...when your way is longer and a waste of time to begin with. You're naive. I swear, all these people whining about DF groups need to form a static or join a FC. That's why they put them in the game.

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So true.
Trash mobs don't even loot trash item to sells. They waste your time and increase your repair fees. All is being done to encourage to skip them.

If the majority of a party want to do it a particular way then the other members of the party should either do it that way or leave. Simple as that. And as to your "but if you so much as dare try to play your way and I'm in your party...", personally I never demand that a party play a dungeon one way or another, I'm happy to go along with whichever the majority of the party wants to do.

Since when is simply running past trash mobs an exploit? The mechanics of the game allow it, therefore it is by definition, not an exploit, but rather a clever use of game mechanics. Now, taking advantage of a glitch, that's a different matter entirely. This isn't that.

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Originally Posted by Awdogsgo2heaven

I say we all rage quit speed run parties.

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Then good luck doing content on duty finder at all if you're not tank.

I noticed after a silly Demon Wall wipe yesterday that it's easily possible to run from the boss#1 checkpoint all the way to Demon Wall without pulling agro on a single monster. So, aside from the statues that poof into monster-form and auto-agro someone, you can skip, dance and frolic your way through half of this dungeon without pulling a single monster. If SE really cared all that much about all of the trash being killed, I imagine they'd make it slightly more difficult than it currently is to get past them.

theres an even better glitch in Amdapor keep when fighting the demon wall. Occasionally i've had it where 3 of my party members have died being pushed off the ledge, leaving one remaining party member, the demon wall then stops functioning and just sits there till it dies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML3Ukt3lpiY
Demon Wall glitch caught on video.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

^^
This is a great fix - especially for final boss door.


Other ideas (to mix it up):

• Random mob in room holds key for door
• Trash mobs have small chance at dropping currency
• Chest/currency drops scale with # of mobs killed
• Boss power/HP is amplified by the # of mobs remaining in dungeon (different attributes tied to different types of mobs)
• Doors that unlock only when a certain species of mob has been wiped out (could change randomly with each run)
• Currency drops from separate chest which spawn when a certain % of mobs killed (threshold be randomized from a range [eg. 50~80%])
  
  

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Sounds like Nyzul Isle... lol

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Originally Posted by Livilda

Vanilla WoW. Scarlet Monastery. If you went in without clearing ALL the trash, everything you didn't kill would come attack during the boss.

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SE even has a precedence for doing something like this, when you fight the Ram NM in Lufaise Meadows for a relic material he'll summon all sheep and ram in the zone to his side. So it's not exactly the same but it's a similar concept SE has done before and can do again if they chose to.

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Originally Posted by Xayoc

Who knows, that one gil might be a Gath gil...

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lol not many will get this reference

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Originally Posted by Noroi_Kisaragi

Why? I really don't see a problem with speedrunning it. This was encouraged in 1.0.

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1: This isn't 1.0 2: Perhaps they should make it so you get a full set of Arcane, Light and Plate armour for your first victory, no time wasted then!. (I'm kidding of course)

@those saying it's clever use of mechanics? Hell the fuck no! It's abusing the aggro loss on death and mobs on reset being unable to aggro. I'm not asking it to be fixed pointlessly, I understand why people don't want to kill them, but a reward or them appearing in the bossfight would be good. Or a mixture. More reward for beating them (The one gil thing is shit) and at least half of them being required. Or the boss gets one-shot happy.

They just need to add a reason to kill the trash mobs. Have them drop 1 mythology, for example, which gets given to a random party member. That would probably be enough that people would kill them.

Alternatively, or more creatively, they could have them drop high end crafting mats that cost mythology currently.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

You did this on purpose - No one would post about majority of the playerbase speed running then end their post with "Why should we be forced to not speed run" without knowing you're trolling purposefully.

If you load up DF, you'll be 9/10 forced to Speed Run, why should people be forced to speed run? Oh that's right..."If it's what I support and want to do it's ok to force others but if you so much as dare try to play your way and I'm in your party..."

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You don't understand what the word force actually means. You choose to Que up for the DF knowing full well your party will want to speedrun. Your solution to this isn't..."Oh well ill make my own party and have it run the dungeon proper." Instead it's "I will petition the devs to make everyone clear the trash, because thats how i want to do it." See? One side is saying do your own thing(speedrunners) and the other side is petitioning devs to program the game so speedrunners can't exist.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

They just need to add a reason to kill the trash mobs. Have them drop 1 mythology, for example, which gets given to a random party member. That would probably be enough that people would kill them.

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You know this is actually a pretty nice idea since you are capped on how many mythology stones you can get per week anyways and will help people get their stones a little bit faster.

Yeah, this is nonsense.

Same old company, permit something stupid, and leave it for years, and then when noone cares, it gets fixed (people are saying this was a thing from 1.0, that's where I get 'years').