Black Mage Job Spells are disappointing.

I think BLM would be fine if Flare either dealt more dmg or didnt consume 100% of our mana. They could always add something like... resets Transpose cd and cause transpose to swap 3 stacks of AF for 3 stacks of UI. This way Flare would have a place in our DPS rotation.

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Originally Posted by Fengor

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That's another thing, the names of my spells are incredibly boring and sterile. Blizzard 1, Blizzard 2, Blizzard 3. Blizzard 3 is the upgrade to 1 that 2 should have been and 2 should have been a completely different named spell all on it's own. Actually it feels like when going from Blizzard 1 to Blizzard 3 and Fire 1 to Fire 3 I skipped a spell in there in terms of effect. If you insist on using these boring 1, 2, 3 naming conventions then at least use them correctly.

(limit reached again, see next)

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You want to know something funny ?

German Spell Names : ,-ra ,-ga
Japanese Spell Names : ,-ra ,-ga
France Spell Names : extra, mega

English Spell Names : ,-II ,-III

I'm not quite sure about France (i think they never used ,-ra ,-ga or ,-ja for FF), but JP and GER are using the Final Fantasy suffix system we all love and know.

English seems to be the only language which uses the old System. Old because only old FF games (FFI,II.. till FFVII) used the numerical system. (Remakes of older games have replaced the numerical system with the suffix system, for example FFVII)

I agree that Flare should definitely function as a "Fire IV" and give us 3 stacks of Astral Fire. This will allow Fire III to have a nice Niche role with firestarter while Flare would actually add something to the Job.

The problem I have to the Job is NONE of our Spells add ANYTHING to our rotation. The Job is a joke. The spells aren't fun, or interesting. You're better off casting Blizzard III than casting flare. You're wasting time casting Flare, hitting convert and then casting blizzard III. Either the spell should function without completely draining our MP, or it should take Fire III's place in our rotation, giving us a new spell to work into our rotation, and allowing Fire III to retain its niche as a supplementary damage nuke while casting Fire I.

This Job is BANAL. It gives THM nothing new to play with.

What if we think of Flare as an AOE/fire rotaion finisher It's big dmg that can be cast for very little mana. In a ranged aoe situation you cast fire III at least until you have full astral stacks and then use flare (maybe with swiftcast) to finish off your mana and enemies, after which you transpose and go about your business.

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Originally Posted by -Snow

You want to know something funny ?

German Spell Names : ,-ra ,-ga
Japanese Spell Names : ,-ra ,-ga
France Spell Names : extra, mega

English Spell Names : ,-II ,-III

I'm not quite sure about France (i think they never used ,-ra ,-ga or ,-ja for FF), but JP and GER are using the Final Fantasy suffix system we all love and know.

English seems to be the only language which uses the old System. Old because only old FF games (FFI,II.. till FFVII) used the numerical system. (Remakes of older games have replaced the numerical system with the suffix system, for example FFVII)

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Yeah I remember that lengthy discussion from the beta forums. If I remember right, the localization team told us that we got the boring names because they felt we were too stupid to understand the ra/ga names. (Not in those exact words mind you, but that was essentially the gist of their reasoning; then they went and applied said reasoning incorrectly to the spells.)

Firestarter should have been a BLM spell. What I would like to see is a new thunder spell which upon thundercloud proc gives the option of using normal proc or holding down the button for a sec to release a thunder aoe .. shock and awe or something. On a side note steer clear of Mallow Vinx if you find yourselves grouped with him .. rolling need on caster gear for his low level alts in level 50 dungeons.

The ward spells are not even worth the GCD, and they could easily be merged into one spell and have the duration extended to 1 minute. Apoc and freeze are way too situational, I believe the devs can do better. And btw we are not talking about stats here, every job gets that so it's out of the way, we are talking purely about boring / very situational skills that BLM bring to the table. Seriously look at other jobs and see what they get in terms of skills: they get class-defining, game-changing skills. For example: paladin shield oath / sword oath, warrior defiance...

Every BLM abililty has it's use, I just think a lot of people in this thread either haven't done anything difficult or aren't using the job to it's full potential.

Later on a lot of the fights have adds which need to be burned down and Manawall saves your healers a bit of MP (it can also completely negate physical TP moves that would otherwise one-shot), Manaward works with primal "Astral Flow" abilities such as Aerial Blast, Apocastasis I usually stick on w/e healer has lowest HP before the same moves and Aetherial Manipulation can save you if you're late in positioning yourself.

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Originally Posted by Dartanis

I think BLM would be fine if Flare either dealt more dmg or didnt consume 100% of our mana. They could always add something like... resets Transpose cd and cause transpose to swap 3 stacks of AF for 3 stacks of UI. This way Flare would have a place in our DPS rotation.

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If you're not using Flare in your DPS rotation then it's really going to hurt your damage output. It might use all your MP but the minimum cost is low so you use it as your last spell before using Transpose. Stack Flare with Swiftcast whenever it's up as it's a fairly long cast.

Altogether I've had more fun with BLM than any other DPS job.

I agree with much of what has been said on both sides of the "argument."

I think people are having 2 (or more) different conversations here and we are suffering a little from people talking passed each other. But mostly we are agreement.

My personal feeling is that I love the THM class (I'm level 38). I was leery at first, but it really grows as you level. I love the damage, the cc, the aoe, the fantastic ability to manage endless mana. I love the way the spells look too. It's a great class and BLM primarily takes the things a THM already does and makes them more powerful (mostly through stats, but with a few useful abilities too). I think most of us agree that BLM does NOT in any way "ruin" the THM, or make the class "bad." I do crazy dmg, and can sustain it. It looks and feels cool. But therein lies the issue for me.


Continued......

The problem (for me at least) is that becoming a Black Mage didn't "feel" as epic as it should. It's one of the iconic FF classes, and even the in-game BLM quest text got me all excited in anticipation for what must be the most amazingly DESTRUCTIVE skills I was about to unlock. Needless to say this is not what happened.

It was a bit of a letdown when I think of the other Jobs. Now I'm not 100% sure what happens when you unlock other jobs, but compared to Summoner at least, the "cool factor" just doesn't compare. Where's the thing my BLM can bust out so everyone KNOWS they're dealing with a BLM here, and not just some chump THM? When I see a Bard sing, a Summoner's Ifrit or Titan, or even a Scholar's Fairy, I KNOW they have their jobs unlocked, and they look and feel nifty. How come I can't cast an awesome BLM spell so that everyone KNOWS I'm a freaking BLM, and I'm not to be trifled with?!?!


Continued .... Next Page .....

I don't really care if they have to move something around (Fire III seems like a perfect candidate for this), or tone something else down to keep us in balance with other classes. When I unlock BLM, it should be freaking awesome. I shouldn't trade 200 hp for 300 mana once every 3 minutes, I should be bending gravity, summoning meteors, or flinging tornadoes. I just think there should be something instantly recognizable as BLM only, so we can show it off, and be proud that we unlocked BLM!

TLDR: THM is great. BLM makes it better, but not necessarily cooler. The addition of a distinctive or instantly recognizable BLM only spell (that's in line with the traditional BLM theme of pure destruction) would alleviate the situation, even if it didn't actually add damage or utility to a class that already has both in spades!

So many people displeased with this job, surely there must be something wrong.
It seems to be big part to the visual factor but also since pre 45 BLM lost more than it gained in terms of DPS.

Personally I played THM until level 45! This was so I could have 20% crit chance from pugilist as well as raise and protect.
Before 45 there was NO usefulness in BLM job besides a minor stat boost, after at least I got gear that forced me to play BLM and it kind of felt good. After all I wanted to be BLM, I just did not want to feel gimped.

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Originally Posted by -Snow

You want to know something funny ?

German Spell Names : ,-ra ,-ga
Japanese Spell Names : ,-ra ,-ga
France Spell Names : extra, mega

English Spell Names : ,-II ,-III

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*bite nail* You HAVE to be kidding me!? It's like the localization team does not even know what a Final Fantasy game is.

For all the BLM survivability CDs you could get some nice ones as THM such as Pug's instant 20% heal to self and group or a CNJ stoneskin. I personally love the Pug skill for 20% crit for 15s on 1min cooldown. That with AF3 can deal some huge damage.

Flare should deal bonus damage based on how much of your mana it consumes. So it you drop your entire mana pool on it, it should be like a mini limit break

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Originally Posted by Bloodravn

Flare should deal bonus damage based on how much of your mana it consumes. So it you drop your entire mana pool on it, it should be like a mini limit break

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Cool idea! We regen mana so quick that it might be too powerful though.

I'm conflicted in complaining about the lack of cool spell effects from BLM when THM has such awesome spell effects.

But still . . . it would be awesome if BLM had a dark aspect spell complete with awesome spell effects. Thinking like Magus from Chrono Trigger: Dark Bomb, Dark Matter, Dark Mist, Black Hole, etc.

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Originally Posted by Inuakurei

Ya the BLM skills suck. Even Freeze / Flare are next to useless.

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I feel you playing blm wrong if you don't know how to use flare. It's one of the big dps for blm. with Raging Strikes + good gear you can easy do 1.5+k dps and without it 1k+. Not sure why people think flare is useless if you think that then playing blm wrong.

I just think Flare needs some kind of overhaul at least.

It's the always known BLM ability in most of the FF's, it should be a bit more... epic. So should Holy.

Increase potency by ~ 30-50%, increase CD to 30-60 seconds and give it some kind of special ability not linked to your mana pools at all.

Where is Ultima, Exit and my favorite, Quake. I think SE needs to look at all of Vivi's abilities in FFIX and give those to us! The only spells I use in my rotation are Blizzard, Transpose and Fire 3. sometimes Sleep. Im lvl 40 and those are all that I use (also in dungeon bosses I use Thunder2)

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Originally Posted by Hoban9331

Where is Ultima, Exit and my favorite, Quake. I think SE needs to look at all of Vivi's abilities in FFIX and give those to us! The only spells I use in my rotation are Blizzard, Transpose and Fire 3. sometimes Sleep. Im lvl 40 and those are all that I use (also in dungeon bosses I use Thunder2)

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Let me tell you in a nice way, that you are doing it wrong.

Go for the proper BLM rotation right here in the forum. ;)

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Originally Posted by Nyel

I just think Flare needs some kind of overhaul at least.

It's the always known BLM ability in most of the FF's, it should be a bit more... epic. So should Holy.

Increase potency by ~ 30-50%, increase CD to 30-60 seconds and give it some kind of special ability not linked to your mana pools at all.

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flare is one of the strongest spell for blm so you know it does not need a overhaul at all. Pretty much one you low on mp to no longer cast fire you do flare and with Raging Strikes it does even more. So ya i think people here playing blm wrong if they think flare is weak lol.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

flare is one of the strongest spell for blm so you know it does not need a overhaul at all. Pretty much one you low on mp to no longer cast fire you do flare and with Raging Strikes it does even more. So ya i think people here playing blm wrong if they think flare is weak lol.

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Damage-wise Flare is pretty strong, but overall it is pretty weak.

Without Convert you HAVE to use Transpose for getting some MP, and Transpose <<<<<< Blizzard III.

Because of Flare you are wasting the 50% cast-time buff for Blizzard III, because you have to use Transpose. You also won't get the 50% cast-time buff for Fire III, because you only get 1 stack of Umbral Ice with Transpose. (And casting Blizzard III now for 3 stacks UI would be a big DPS loss, because you have to wait the whole 3,5 sec cast)

Without Swiftcast you also have to wait 4,0 (!!) sec for Flare.

That's not worth the 40 potency. (Except for AoE)

Flare could need a buff, or atleast a overhaul.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

flare is one of the strongest spell for blm so you know it does not need a overhaul at all. Pretty much one you low on mp to no longer cast fire you do flare and with Raging Strikes it does even more. So ya i think people here playing blm wrong if they think flare is weak lol.

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It may be the strongest spell in a BLM repertoire, but it isn't a "great" attack at all.

For the conditions required by Flare right now, they should increase the damage / lower cast time / something else, they really should.

As the guy above my post says.

It is just a Fire 3 with a bit more potency. And for a super-spell like "Flare" tend to be, it's disappointing.

My 2c is that I enjoy the class, but have not been even a tiny bit excited for new skills leveling past 30. They're boring and add nothing to the playstyle. Temp defensive buffs and other highly situational things definitely nothing job-defining. Very sad.

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Originally Posted by Nyel

It is just a Fire 3 with a bit more potency. And for a super-spell like "Flare" tend to be, it's disappointing.

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Fire 3 with more potency and AOE.
In some respects this is like complaining that Fire 2 doesn't fit in the rotation because it has worse potency and cast time than Fire 1. It's a situational spell.
Got a group of mobs? At the end of your burn phase? Smack 'em all with Flare>convert>bliz3. You could even double up on Flare with one tick of Bliz at that point and transpose out of it, if you really need/want some big, fast AOE damage.

That, of course, doesn't stop me from wanting a something that'd fit into the regular rotation.

I agree, I rarely use any of them...

I've been hoping to find some thread where people had a problem with this class. I have always enjoyed the big devastating attacks of a high level black mage in the FF series and though I do enjoy my blm it feels a bit lacking. I agree with the OP in many aspects. If you look back at when FF14 was originally released, the Thaumaturge had like 4-5 "Ancient magic" spells that seemed to come from FF11; Flare, Freeze, Burst, Flood, and Tornado or Quake (don't remember exactly). When the 'Jobs' patch came out, these spells were reworked thankfully to look more powerful but they cut out Flood and Tornado. And now it seems with the 2.0 overhaul Flare is the only spell that lives up to that Blm name. For me personally Freeze is totally useless and looks dumb compared to the Ice spikes from 1.23. And again, where is Burst?? Where's Tornado and Quake and so on? I hope they fix this and implement these awesome spells in the future patches. Otherwise I am disappoint :(

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Originally Posted by Elros

I've been hoping to find some thread where people had a problem with this class. I have always enjoyed the big devastating attacks of a high level black mage in the FF series and though I do enjoy my blm it feels a bit lacking. I agree with the OP in many aspects. If you look back at when FF14 was originally released, the Thaumaturge had like 4-5 "Ancient magic" spells that seemed to come from FF11; Flare, Freeze, Burst, Flood, and Tornado or Quake (don't remember exactly). When the 'Jobs' patch came out, these spells were reworked thankfully to look more powerful but they cut out Flood and Tornado. And now it seems with the 2.0 overhaul Flare is the only spell that lives up to that Blm name. For me personally Freeze is totally useless and looks dumb compared to the Ice spikes from 1.23. And again, where is Burst?? Where's Tornado and Quake and so on? I hope they fix this and implement these awesome spells in the future patches. Otherwise I am disappoint :(

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You've misremembered. When Tornado, Quake, Flood, Flare, Burst and Freeze (yes, both Tornado *and* Quake) first came out, they were *Conjurer* spells. Conjurers commanded the elements, remember? Thaumaturge got Astral and Umbral spells. All six Ancient Magic spells were removed when they refactored the mages to give THM Fire, Ice and Thunder and more clearly defined THM as a damage dealer and CNJ as a healer in Patch 1.20. Then Flare, Freeze and Burst came back with the BLM job in Patch 1.21; Burst was apparently lost in the transition in 2.0. Couldn't tell you why. BLM will not get Tornado, Quake and Flood because Wind, Earth and Water remain CNJ elements--THM and jobs based on THM don't cast spells from those elements.

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Originally Posted by Rbstr

Fire 3 with more potency and AOE.
In some respects this is like complaining that Fire 2 doesn't fit in the rotation because it has worse potency and cast time than Fire 1. It's a situational spell.
Got a group of mobs? At the end of your burn phase? Smack 'em all with Flare>convert>bliz3. You could even double up on Flare with one tick of Bliz at that point and transpose out of it, if you really need/want some big, fast AOE damage.

That, of course, doesn't stop me from wanting a something that'd fit into the regular rotation.

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It's got uses, but it's too situational to use. I don't know if it's mentioned, but we need more oomph in our BLM spells. I love manawall for HM Titan, but it's lame to get mostly defensive CDs for our BLM quests. I'd like to see them add Burst as a BLM ancient magic spell we use regularly on single-target. Also that would be great if we could get the BLM 2-hour from FFXI

Idk. Having way more fun on my BLM than I ever had on my Bard. Some of the cast times needs to be looked at though.

Bard is the most boring thing I've ever played.

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Originally Posted by Imoye

Idk. Having way more fun on my BLM than I ever had on my Bard. Some of the cast times needs to be looked at though.

Bard is the most boring thing I've ever played.

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What exactly did you like about BLM? Because to me, it's the same as playing Mage in WoW.
Currently playing a Bard, can say im loving it s far... BLM do have some awsome looking spells at 50 though

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Originally Posted by Imoye

Idk. Having way more fun on my BLM than I ever had on my Bard. Some of the cast times needs to be looked at though.

Bard is the most boring thing I've ever played.

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I tried to get on board with the bard hype/fotm too, but the class is just soooo mind numbingly boring and simplistic I couldn't even make it to 50. I fell asleep at 47. It is an extremely potent class though for how fisher price it is. OP to the max. Wish I enjoyed it.

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Originally Posted by Sindri_Myr

What exactly did you like about BLM? Because to me, it's the same as playing Mage in WoW.
Currently playing a Bard, can say im loving it s far... BLM do have some awsome looking spells at 50 though

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The big numbers and flashy animations >.<
Bard is quite nice though, just not my thing. But I can see why people enjoy playing it. The freedom of movement is amazing.

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Originally Posted by Inuakurei

Ya the BLM skills suck. Even Freeze / Flare are next to useless.

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I laughed really hard. If you think Flare is useless you're doing something wrong.

I think like most of you.
When I get access to the BLM, then ... I was nothing else than a THM. And I still feel the same.
All the DPS skills are on the THM branch, nothing in BLM (flare ... really ? situational, nothing more).

If THM get access to others classes, like Red Mage, will you really stay as BLM ? For a shield not really usefull and a situational root ?

I'm not complaining about BLM, I think we're a really good class and I love to play it in high end game. But I'm not sure he survived to another THM class in the futur.

As a SCH, I have never seen a BLM using his lv50 Ability (that aether teleport thing)
Do you guys ever use it? and if yes for what?
I am kinda curious when you can use that...

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

As a SCH, I have never seen a BLM using his lv50 Ability (that aether teleport thing)
Do you guys ever use it? and if yes for what?
I am kinda curious when you can use that...

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Aetherial Manipulation is the level 50 Thaumaturge ability. The level 50 BLM ability is Flare.

Marry me? You pretty much said everything I could have ever thought of.

I love BLM and it's amazing. While "I guess" someone could point out that we spam the same spells over and over........yes, but, those spells kick major ass, and I'm not complaining because to me it makes the job much more fluid. I'd rather know what I'm doing instead of having to press 10 different things in order to create as much damage as Fire III...when that takes 1 button.

The only thing that I can complain about it that I felt little difference between BLM/THM. I know there is some, but I would have loved a Drain...maybe the ability to use some water/stone just to have some options? But that's just me remembering XI.

I love a "firey" death any day.

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

As a SCH, I have never seen a BLM using his lv50 Ability (that aether teleport thing)
Do you guys ever use it? and if yes for what?
I am kinda curious when you can use that...

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So far its uses seems quite limited. I currently use it on titan. Having it macros on tank can help you out due to the fact that weight of the land never hits tank. Also if you are far away from tank during earthen fury it can be good.
Downside is if you first try to run from wotl but notice you won't make it in time, then aetherial manipulation won't have time either. You must use it right away.

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Originally Posted by Reitrenner

But is it fun? No.

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What is fun, is subjective, I rather like support spells, because to be blunt pure DPS (especially in PvE) is faceroll easy and gets dull because of it, having to weave in support ups the awareness (and the skillcap) required, which makes it more fun, at least for me.

YES! Completely agree. The Black Mage Skills are all support besides Flare which is a 100% MP cost power. Black Mage is a pure DPS class. There is no reason 80% of the 5 class skills should be all support. I think the Freeze, Convert, and Flare are all good. I'm fine with Freeze and Convert as they fight the class. Blizzard II is a CC so I can see them getting a supped up CC ability. Convert also fits being that they need some sort of mp sustain given how they dps. Flare obviously large damage aoe skill, but Apocatastasis and Manawall are completely out of place here. So you are leveling and all of the sudden your DPS gets a support shield? What? Really? I would be like WTF am I dps or am I now being shoe horned into the group CC and Support guy, then you get Manawall and you are like ANOTHER shield what? Hmm maybe I'm not a DPS and I should support more, and then you get Flare and are like oh there it is only took me 20 levels but I finally got a dps ability on my dps.