I miss party grinding (as a viable option)

@d0e1ow:

Both. People actually talked in XI. I can barely get one of the people in my groups to say anything, but that is probably because there is a timer one everything you do.

What is with this game and timers?

@ponysteak1:

People join FATEs so often because of the crazy amount of EXP you can get from them without actually doing anything at all.

I used Aero on a mob once in a FATE and it ended right then and I got a silver rank with about 5,000 EXP. Compare that to the 150-200 EXP you get per mob in dungeons.

I wish people could actually see this game's problems, but most people here are white knights protecting Yoshi P and Square-Enix over anything they do.

My solution for FATEs: Nerf the amount of EXP gained through them and/or have them occur less frequently AND then increase the amount of EXP gained through fighting dungeon mobs in order to encourage more people to actually you know.. group up together. Even in FATE parties, people never communicate.

I don't miss party grinding at all.

Why anyone prefers standing in one spot killing one single kind of mob repeatedly for hours vs content that makes you move around and fight a variety of enemies is beyond me. Yes, both of them are still grinding, but one has a lot more spice than the other.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

In a FATE event, I would, as an ACH:
<tab> 1 (bio), <tab> 1, <tab> 1, <tab> 1
No need to do any other skill (no time even really).
After 3-5 minutes, I got 20k+ XP. I was shocked at how fast I could level

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Yeah, FATES really suck. I hated them in Rift and I especially hated them in Guild Wars... I don't like them much in FFXIV. Just mindlessly killing enemies alongside strangers... lame. Maybe once the traffic in the zones spreads out more evenly the FATES will be a littler more engaging and things won't just fall over dead... it still won't make them more sociable.

I wish they would have done away with the "QoL" changes that have been so prevalent in recent MMO's that have shown to just degrade the social experience into nothing...

I don't miss it because we already have it.

You can party grind in dungeons. Unlike camping in a single a spot, you're actually moving around fighting mini bosses and doing different things. You even get loot and rewards.

If you want to learn how to function in group content you can do Guildhest.

@Andrien: You must have came from WoW, it is understandable.

As far as I see it, grinding is grinding regardless of the form it takes. XI had its parties, XIV has Fates/leves/dungeons/quests.

With that said, I really miss the forced interaction that you had with XI exp parties. I made some awesome friends just from leveling. It doesn't seem that easy with XIV. For the most part, people are just in their own little world, myself included, running from quest to quest, or between fates. And lets not get into the restricted chat during dungeons..

Also, with XI you could learn your job as you leveled. With XIV, I feel like you just get tossed into that first dungeon with no real clue as to what's expected of you. I played a WHM in XI, and I'm a WHM again in XIV, so I had the basics down, but I really feel for people who are new to the genre. And holy shit, I feel awful for tanks. Solo play is so different than when you're grouped up. This community seems to have zero tolerance for people new to their job, and that can be intimidating to say the least.

I miss party grinding too. I wish it was a viable option but with things like Fates that offer the best exp and seal rewards, people would find it hard to do anything else.

If it weren't for my need of seals, I would do dungeons all day even though its slower exp. It's the closest thing to a party grind...

put "LF XP PT" in your search comment and/or whisper ppl to join your XP PT and go run dungeons together - they are XP PTs...

the action in this game is faster then the action in FFXI so there is going to be less chatting while XP PTing unless everyone stops running the dungeon in order to chat

if you miss FFXI so much, go play it

Gotta say, I really miss party grinding if only because it was by far the best way to get to know people in the game. There is no good way to get to know people in FFXIV that I'm aware of, party-wise - in dungeons they're generally not from your world so you can't add them to your LS, and in FATE you don't talk because you're too busy spamming and trying to get to the next person.

Putting together a party was a hugely social thing for me - the number of people who would join my party shot up like a rocket when I started being "experimental" with the way I shouted for parties, and when we actually partied together we would chat while we rested and have a good laugh on many occasions. It was awesome.

There's nothin' like that now. :(

In regards to party grinding does anyone know how feasible Spirit Bond parties are now at 50? There is a substantial amount of materia I need to put into my HQ crafter AF and I definitely cannot afford the inflated prices on the market boards for them.

^ I agree with this so much. Wish they supported this as a viable option really. I mean have it actually be in the duty finder.

Though I agree with one poster because I was thinking about it too. Skills in ffxiv is too quick for anyone to have time to type anything.

Scout zones look for areas that have the highest amount of mobs there then form a party and go on from there. ive done it in mor dhona at 35 highest chain we got was 22 we when from 35-40 in around 2 hours exp at chain 22 was 1500 exp

I miss grouping in general. Instanced dungeons are cool - I like them, but the lack of open world grouping and emphasis on solo idiot mode, or worse, crap like fate grinding that is zero challenge, zero risk, zero effort, for tons of reward, is getting old.


If you could log in and get xp every 5 minutes on a timer just for being in the game - it would be only slightly easier than doing fate grinding. You have to move to fates and hit a few things. That's it. Otherwise it's damn close to just getting xp for logging in.


Bring the MM back to MMORPG - it's what made the genre what it is. All these solo ez mode post WoW clones end up being failures because players mow down solo idiot mode content like a blitzkrieg and crappy single player content isn't worth a sub.


All the people saying this game is amazing and the best game ever (which is ridiculous but people always say nonsense like this) should probably hold off on judging til the honeymoon is over. See how you feel in a month or two. People said the same thing about SWTOR early on - it was the greatest game ever. For a couple of months. Once the solo idiot mode was obliterated and tiny amount of endgame tasted, it was, see ya, you suck. How is FFXIV any different than the SWTOR/post WoW clone formula of fail? If anything FFXIV offers considerably less than SWTOR and far more simplistic solo and instanced group content.


All the fanboys in the world frothing during release don't make game design fact or extensive MMORPG history any different.


Here's an idea. Screw soloists and screw inept players. Make MMORPGs the way they're supposed to be made - for grouping and with challenge. If some people don't want to play that style...that's OK. A billion box sales are neato but when most players are gone and not subbing 3-6 months later...how is that? Wouldn't it be better to have a consistent pop playing a game they love for years? Like in the early days of MMORPGs? There are TONS of single player games for people who don't want to group. There are tons of phone and tablet games and simple games for people who suck at gaming.


The older MMORPGs that were group-heavy and challenging are still played and still have subs. The solo idiot clones? ALL, every one of them, is F2P trash now.


Why do MMORPG designers continually feel the need to try warp a genre that was never broken into games that try to appeal to people who aren't suited to playing MMORPGs? It boggles the mind. The beauty and unique thing about MMORPGs is the GROUPING. It's something you can't do in other genres. Focus on what is best about the genre and stop trying to make MMORPGs into single player RPG facebook.

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Originally Posted by Voqar

I miss grouping in general. Instanced dungeons are cool - I like them, but the lack of open world grouping and emphasis on solo idiot mode, or worse, crap like fate grinding that is zero challenge, zero risk, zero effort, for tons of reward, is getting old.

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please explain how running thru the world with 3 other ppl in your pt would be any different then running thru a dungeon with 3 other ppl in your pt?

the only difference in open world pts would be the OTHER PTs could STEAL the mobs you are trying to pt on...

while in a dungeon pt NO ONE ELSE can STEAL the mobs you are trying to pt on...

seems to me that is a GOOD thing

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Originally Posted by Voqar

stuff

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Fantastic post, but this game completely changes at 50. The 32+ dungeons start to get hard, 40+ REALLY hard, and 50 are incredibly hard/fun. My entire class changed at 50(scholar), and it's one of the best, if not the best healer I've ever played in a MMO. So much to do, so fun, the game really completely changes at 50 for the better, gets so much harder and challenging and the combat gets REALLY good. I think this game will last a few long time, Yoshi's team makes the best dungeons/raids I've ever done, as well as the most fun classes(except bard and paladin, those need redesigned) ever made in MMO's, Warrior looks SOOO cool, looks like one of the coolest tanks ever.

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Originally Posted by Blazn

I just want the magic bursts and skill combo's involving multiple people brought back. Loved the teamwork that it encouraged

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This. Skill Chaining + Magic Burst was an epic system that encourages team work. Wonder why this system was ditched. Wish they would bring it back. I feel like the Limit Break system is supposed to be the replacement to Skill Chaining/Magic Burst. I think the Limit Break system is trash. But I guess that's another discussion.

As far as the OPs original post, I agree that SE should make exp grinding a viable alternative to leveling. FATE's are a mindless zerg-fest that does not really encourage any team work or communication.

Experience Points parties were great ways to meet people and make friends and fine tune teamwork. Merit parties as bard in ffxi is probably the most fun I've had in any MMO. Everyone had a role to play and if they communicated well, EXP seemed to fly by. Having to communicate gave people a reason to talk to each other and make friends. Let's be real though, for every good group you got, there were 4 or 5 dunes type parties.

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/040513.jpg

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Originally Posted by Steeled

I know none of the cool kids do it, since their idol Frankie Warcraft doesn't, but I miss party grinding.

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Dungeons and Fates are party exp grinding and instead of leveling on a certain group of mobs, you level off of various mobs to make it more interesting and faster paced. with the current population and the current areas if you made leveling off mobs outside the dungeon equal to the dungeons or close then there would be no need to go into a dungeon to level.The outside mobs are there to farm to help balance the game. If hippocerfs were a level off of mob, i would not have a chance to farm hippocerfs for their skins because I would have to fight leveling parties over the 4-8 hippocerfs. I feel it is well balanced and currently with fate trains and such I have the ability to farm what I need to make decent gear and make coin.

i lvled whm by spamming holy in fates

IT WAS SO FUN


not really...:mad:


rather fates give something else than exp

boost dungeon exp
kthnx.

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Originally Posted by Sandoria

Experience Points parties were great ways to meet people and make friends and fine tune teamwork. Merit parties as bard in ffxi is probably the most fun I've had in any MMO. Everyone had a role to play and if they communicated well, EXP seemed to fly by. Having to communicate gave people a reason to talk to each other and make friends. Let's be real though, for every good group you got, there were 4 or 5 dunes type parties.

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Dungeon PTs are XP PTs in FFXIV.

Form your own groups (just like you do in FFXI) for Dungeons if you want to meet ppl on your server and make friends with them.

FFXIV targets a much wider audience. To me, i just couldn't grind the XP anymore in FFXI after i have my baby. The learning curve of FFXIV is not as lengthy as FFXI that its content could already teach an average player the necessary skills to enjoy the highest level content. Making fd or chating during party grinding is just impractical as this is an semi-action base combat system. Unless one have prepared lengthy macro for the actions, otherwise, everybody is just busy pressing the action hot bar every 2.5s during combat.

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Originally Posted by Joshhoowah

I agree that FATEs are boring and create don't help people learn their jobs.

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Hey! You take that back.

I learnt all my SMN skills in FATEs. I bio claim each and every mob when it comes in and get gold every damn time. I think more tanks and healers need to go to FATEs, because I'm stuck at Haukke Manor because of all the crappy Healers and Tanks. I know they're crappy because I'm doing my role perfectly: I run through the first few rooms and bio claim each and every mob. There are times when I have dozens claimed at once. That's how I'm supposed to play, right?

I miss the days of XI leveling parties. It felt like such a journey getting out there to the camp and by the time the party was done, everyone was either really great friends or hated each others guts xD

It was just a great way to meet people on your server, unlike these duty finder dungeons. I feel like they just encourage people to act atrociously and greedy, because you will most likely never see those people every again. And if the party doesn't work immediately, what's to stop you from just leaving and jumping back in the duty finger for another party instead of trying to work things out and come up with tactics and helping each other understand the fights, etc.

tl;dr

idk where u guys are getting this from but infact the fasted way to lvl in this game is 8man pts chaining mobs 10lvls higher than you

that's how JP's got to 50 in like 2 days

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Originally Posted by Moth

I miss the days of XI leveling parties. It was just a great way to meet people on your server, unlike these duty finder dungeons.

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Then why are you not forming your own groups with players from your own server if that is how you enjoy PTing?

It's what you did in FFXI, so do it here if you want to meet ppl on your server to make friends with and go XP PTing in dungeons with them instead of with random strangers.

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Originally Posted by Cyberpirate

tl;dr

idk where u guys are getting this from but infact the fasted way to lvl in this game is 8man pts chaining mobs 10lvls higher than you

that's how JP's got to 50 in like 2 days

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This, overworld xp parties are actually very viable. Find the right spot with dense mobs and the proper level range and you'll get exp quicker than fates and far far faster than any dungeon. Whilst dungeons are the most enjoyable way to level imo, trash has too much hp relative to the exp it gives so it's not the greatest way to get to 50 by any stretch.

Dungeons aren't the same for many reasons, although they could be:

- It's difficult to make friends. There's no cross server friend list so 90% of the people you meet, you'll never meet again.
- The XP isn't nearly as fast. Questing, dungeons, even Hunting Log farming stomp all over leves.
- The time limit.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

I think more tanks and healers need to go to FATEs, because I'm stuck at Haukke Manor because of all the crappy Healers and Tanks. I know they're crappy because I'm doing my role perfectly: I run through the first few rooms and bio claim each and every mob. There are times when I have dozens claimed at once.

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I was typing the reply in my head as I read this, and then I got to the end and burst out laughing! Very well delivered.

I like the idea of making some areas of the world require group parties to gain xp .. where the mobs are as hard as dungys

There seems to be a bit too many rose-colored views of the EXP experience in FFXI. I personally don't miss the idea of forced grouping for EXP because of sites like Killing Ifrit and BlueGartr ruining XI with their lol[job] memes and encouraging lazy-minded bandwagoners to exclude any job that wasn't site-approved. People who claim party-grinding was fun obviously never played DRG, SMN, BST, RDM (post-Abyssea), PUP (pre-Adoulin), or BLM (pre-Abyssea). I couldn't be more pleased to see so many choices for experience in XIV. In my view, I really think some people only miss the power they had in saying "<insert bandwagon job> only, <non-BG-approved job> {no Thanks}.

Good riddance to that rubbish.

-Double Post-

You will enjoy the exp rewards from fates once you have burnt out all of your main and side quests and start leveling your 3-4 class to 50, so do not call nerf just yet, because you will be back shortly if they do calling for them to Un-nerf.

I likes grinding could get from 40-50 in about 1 hour at wolf camp 1.23

I read this and thought... Hunting Log, It gives chunks of your level, if your doing it with some other class from teh same starting city 90% of its the same. Also Leve's are basically grinding, except that you aslo get completion rewards. just grab every quest and dont return till you finish them all.

I mean yes you cant just go up to a goat and say imma grind you for my level, but following the hunting log or just doing leve quests are essentially saying. imma kill a bunch of X and get a level. I think the grind elements are still there, they just altered it so it doesnt seem tidius to most people. getting a quest to kill 20 of one mob seems like a total hassle but getting 5 leve quests to kill 4 of this monster and 5 of this one, add up to the same but give players a sense of accomplishment. this keeps them in the mood.

Dunno why this was forced out in the first place. The dev team keeps talking about wanting to give the user "options" but then makes the ones that aren't "casual friendly" completely useless. There really is no difference between spamming Fates and spamming monsters except that one involves a lot of useless running around.

Why would it hurt so much if grinding monsters gave the same exp as Fate trains? It wouldn't force anything, it'd be the user's choice.

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Originally Posted by Voqar

<snip> solo idiot mode..... <snip>

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So everyone who likes to undertake solo activities is an idiot, right ?

Sadly, while you are of course entitled to your opinion, your view of what MMO's should be is an anachronism. Any modern MMO that attempts to eschew the ability to be able to progress solo will fail or fall into a tiny niche fanbase, simple as that. The audience demographic is much larger now, and not everyone has the time or willingness to commit to enforced group content.

The game already offers different ways to progress - some require grouping and some don't. Attempt to force players into one camp or the other and you simply alienate potential customers. While I do agree that group based activities should on the whole offer higher xp gains than solo, It's also a good idea to not make the discrepancy too large. Let people play how they want to.

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Originally Posted by Steeled

Aside from what Mjin said, I'm almost to my first 50 and done with probably 75% (that's probably low) of quests meant for leveling (quests that require 50s don't count). The only quests I haven't done are in LL.

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How is this even possible? I can't even keep up with my main quest line and I've done less than 5 side quests total (I'm level 35). Seriously, I try to cap out my main quest and I level before it stops me.

Yes and no, you need some solo elements in an MMO but it should not be equal to group, infact it should be barely viable. An MMO is based on the concept of group play. thats why it is multiplayer. Many a game company have tired to provide an equal footing, GW2 and WoW for example have issues where people complain that content is too easy. at the same time they dont want to group to do it. this imposes limits on what you can actually make hard. as a sharp learning curve in Dungeons would cause a demand for a nerf. Humans do not ask for help or seek help unless they need it.

you dont ask for help to pickup a shirt or, team up to make scrambled eggs. if you enable the option to do something yourself a player will opt for that over working together. groups and communities exist out of necessity. if you dont create the necessity then no one will work together. So as much as grinding and solo questing are wanted. I personally feel that in the coming weeks FATES will be a reason to group up whie leveling, you wont have a million randoms to just blow through it. you will have a group of say 4. I do like to do stuff solo, but its an MMO i would rather it be more group centric. use that linkshell and free company. its a social game

Can't say I'm all that enamoured with FATEs, they're a good way to get stuck in and get a boatload of EXP, but there's a few issues - firstly you often spot one on your map and run over just in time for it to end, but also I noticed everyone just runs in, at least at lower levels like 20 or so. There was one in the footfalls where I just went "screw it" and ran into the middle with my THM and literally just spammed blizzard II so I hit as many mobs as possible. I think I ended up popping like one potion and got the max amount of EXP. I've just tested this strategy running round the FATEs near Drybone, most EXP I've ever got from the things, no deaths due to pulling loads of aggro so far!

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Originally Posted by Seraphi

When you take it out of context like that, sure.
Meeting new people, and skill chains/magic bursts were cool, but that's about as far as the fun went.

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It was fun because in every area there were higher level mobs that would wipe your group if you screwed up and the puller got aggro. It was fun because if an add followed your puller back to camp and you didn't have someone with an available 2 hour and sleep failed your group would wipe unless the blm used escape. It was fun because if you didn't use the right set of skills (elemental weakness) it took forever. It was fun because it was the skill set of the party and everyone knowing their roles that made you successful. And, oh yeah, people got to know each other because there was some downtime between pulls.

I wouldn't want it to be the only thing available but I would like it if they added things like the crawlers nest for those of us who enjoyed it.

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Originally Posted by squince88

Skill Chaining + Magic Burst was an epic system that encourages team work. Wonder why this system was ditched.

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Probably because a large percentage of the playerbase not only ignored those mechanics but actively devised their own methods, such as manaburn, TP-burn and so on.

I agree they were great concepts but when such a large number of players turned their backs on it I can't say I'm surprised that SE saw fit not to include those mechanics in FFXIV.