Let us craft from Retainer Inventory

I'm starting to reach the limit of my patience. My goal was to level up my character in all Disciples simultaniously but that simply isn't possible because of the bad inventory functionality (not just the crafting materials!) ... which is rather stupid in a game that at it's core is completely about having ONE character that's able to do everyting.
I really like this game, I really like the core ideas ... but I'm out if the inventory functionality doesn't improve soon.

PS: I had to split my reply into three parts since you're limited to a maximum of 1000 chars per reply.

Yeah I would like to be at least be able to craft inside the inn. Calm, no spams, lag free.

/fantastic love this

I'd love the inventory to resemble the material melding menu.

I read the thread title and went through the first page worried that a good idea might actually have unanimous approval. I'm glad that this community never lets me down.

WTB super super realistic inventory management system with encumbrance relative to each race's size. Being able to carry more than 5 lbs as a Lalafell is way too casual for me. :(

Add my name to the "Yes Please" column. Leveling Leatherworker, Carpenter, and Weaver at the same time was tricky enough. Throw in a little Botany so I don't have to buy every mat. In the middle I tried to level Culinarian. You can guess how well that worked out.

I don't think inventory space and sorting functions add a "casual" element at all. It's needless busywork as it it. The only way to offset the cost of crafting is to sell mats and goods in the market. Which you can't do when you're constantly in your retainer's inventory.

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Originally Posted by HurtigeKarl

Because "dumbing down" = changing the game in such way that you have to think less and do less interesting decisions. Currently you should compare the value of organizing your retainer vs the gil you would have earned if you spent that time crafting instead.

By removing that step, you dumb down the game.

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How would you feel about adding a requirement to answer 13 CAPTCHAs before being able to sell an item on the market board through your retainer? Surely, it would make the game more interesting by encouraging the player to weigh his options and think "hmmm, do I want to sell this item for more money by selling it to players and taking 2mn of my time answering captchas, or do I want to sell it instantly to the NPC for a fraction of what I could get?". Surely this is a brilliant game mechanic they should consider adding to the game, right? Right?

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Originally Posted by Flyojumper

How would you feel about adding a requirement to answer 13 CAPTCHAs before being able to sell an item on the market board through your retainer? Surely, it would make the game more interesting by encouraging the player to weigh his options and think "hmmm, do I want to sell this item for more money by selling it to players and taking 2mn of my time answering captchas, or do I want to sell it instantly to the NPC for a fraction of what I could get?". Surely this is a brilliant game mechanic they should consider adding to the game, right? Right?

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You do not introduce any new choice by introducing a captcha in the way you describe. We already have the choice between selling something quickly straight to the npc for low gil, and taking your time to sell it through market. This is specially noticable if you play a fisherman.

I do however think that there needs to be far more punishment for reposting an item on market, to stop the silly 1 gil undercuts. Currently the time punishment is too small, which is why we are seeing a lot of those silly undercuts. A captcha could work there as a way to increase the punishment in form of time, but it is not the most elegant solution; I find redesigning the tax so that there is a posting fee at X % of the demanded gil is a far better way to punish reposters. That is however not a matter of "dumbing down", but a matter of making certain options more/less attractive; which is a balancing issue rather than "dumbing down" issue.

Guild Wars 2 Nailed this correctly. It took a little while before you could craft from the bank direct but that was added eventually. Along with the deposit from anywhere and the super sorted bank with its materials deposit it made quality of life a lot better.

As an avid multi-crafter I feel like I'm playing a mini game of picture puzzle, re-slotting the retainers inventories!

This would be so wonderful.

Having separate inventory space for crafting materials would also work.

I would prefer having a 'work room' that you can build for housing. Store and keep all crafting supplies there.

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Originally Posted by HurtigeKarl

You do not introduce any new choice by introducing a captcha in the way you describe. We already have the choice between selling something quickly straight to the npc for low gil, and taking your time to sell it through market.

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My analogy is sound. Choosing to craft an item for the sole purpose of making money already has a time management decision making built in. "Do I stop to buy/gather the items I need, then take the time to craft the item and put it on the market for a profit, or do I choose another money making strategy?".
Adding an unnecessary chore like tediously moving items in and out of your retainer does nothing to affect this decision making but simply increases the time needed to craft said item. In the same way than answering 13 CAPTCHAs to be able to sell an item on the market board would do nothing but add time to the decision making of selling something to a player rather than an NPC.

Not only would I love to have what the OP suggested, I'd love to see the following implemented:

• Let me see the contents of my Retainers' inventories, not just my own, when I harvest -- hmmm do I need more cotton bolls -- how many do I have on hand?
  
• Let me spread all the inventory pages out simultaneously, rather than being able to look at just one page at a time -- would make manipulating inventory so much easier
  
• Give me a true sort function on inventory pages. And let me filter items by level and/or class (preferably both).
  
• Give me dedicated bags -- a fish bag, an ingredients bag, a reagents bag and so forth. I'd be willing to pay for them, so people don't whine about crafters getting something for nothing.
  
• Let me craft in the inn where there is no crowding and less lag.

There is a lot to like in XIV but inventory management is not one of those things. Inventory management is abysmal, to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Flyojumper

My analogy is sound. Choosing to craft an item for the sole purpose of making money already has a time management decision making built in. "Do I stop to buy/gather the items I need, then take the time to craft the item and put it on the market for a profit, or do I choose another money making strategy?".
Adding an unnecessary chore like tediously moving items in and out of your retainer does nothing to affect this decision making but simply increases the time needed to craft said item. In the same way than answering 13 CAPTCHAs to be able to sell an item on the market board would do nothing but add time to the decision making of selling something to a player rather than an NPC.

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Yeah, but it's something that's already in game which clearly makes it "interesting" and not simply annoying, according to him. He probably gets a ridiculous amount of enjoyment over rush hour traffic, too. :P

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Originally Posted by TGB_Bane

/agree

also y cant we craft in our in room, theres no lag and the retainer bell isnt swamped -_-

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Because then you would have no reason to buy a house. Except you can't buy a house yet either.

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Originally Posted by Flyojumper

My analogy is sound. Choosing to craft an item for the sole purpose of making money already has a time management decision making built in. "Do I stop to buy/gather the items I need, then take the time to craft the item and put it on the market for a profit, or do I choose another money making strategy?".
Adding an unnecessary chore like tediously moving items in and out of your retainer does nothing to affect this decision making but simply increases the time needed to craft said item. In the same way than answering 13 CAPTCHAs to be able to sell an item on the market board would do nothing but add time to the decision making of selling something to a player rather than an NPC.

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The difference is that simplistic captcha don't really give you ingame options to think about that can allow you to reduce the time spent on them, while the current retainer management allows you to think about how you are going to sort your items to reduce time spent looking for them.

If the captcha system itself contained analagous decisions, they would do the opposite of "dumbing down".

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Originally Posted by HurtigeKarl

/snip
If the captcha system itself contained analagous decisions, they would do the opposite of "dumbing down".

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Alright, let me alter the CAPTCHAs' mechanic by introducing an extra layer of fun choices. You can either solve the CAPTCHAs normally or skip each one of the 13 CAPTCHAs by pressing the X button 47 times. Now I get to decide "Am I faster by solving one CAPTCHA manually or hammering my X button 47 times?" Thrilling, isn't it?
The fact remains that switching inventory in and out of the retainer is not anywhere near as strategic or fun as you make it sound and is actually hindering other aspects of crafting which are much more fun and strategic (the crafting system itself). It has nothing to do with instant gratification or dumbing down. If anything, you transfer time from doing a mundane task to doing more crafting, which is more strategic, so one could argue that you actually increase the stategic portion of time you spend while crafting.

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Originally Posted by Flyojumper

Alright, let me alter the CAPTCHAs' mechanic by introducing an extra layer of fun choices. You can either solve the CAPTCHAs normally or skip each one of the 13 CAPTCHAs by pressing the X button 47 times. Now I get to decide "Am I faster by solving one CAPTCHA manually or hammering my X button 47 times?" Thrilling, isn't it?
The fact remains that switching inventory in and out of the retainer is not anywhere near as strategic or fun as you make it sound and is actually hindering other aspects of crafting which are much more fun and strategic (the crafting system itself). It has nothing to do with instant gratification or dumbing down. If anything, you transfer time from doing a mundane task to doing more crafting, which is more strategic, so one could argue that you actually increase the stategic portion of time you spend while crafting.

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The meat of your new suggestion is: introduce a time sink and give the players different options through which they can reduce the degree of the timesink. Of course, if the solution to the new "problem" is far from self-evident, then it makes the player have to think more than he would have otherwise done; i.e. opposite of dumbing down.

"Captcha" would though feel out of place inside a Final Fantasy game, but the meat can be introduced in more elegant ways.

For instance in crafting it has been introduced in a more elegant way: we are unable to remove animation time in options. We have though been given though options to decide the degree of the time sink per craft, like manipulating the amount of steps you choose to have in a craft session.

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Originally Posted by HurtigeKarl

/snip.
Of course, if the solution to the new "problem" is far from self-evident, then it makes the player have to think more than he would have otherwise done; i.e. opposite of dumbing down.

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You are overemphasizing and overestimating the strategic elements added by micro managing item transfers between retainer and main inventory. It's really nowhere near as strategic as you make it sound. I'm curious, would you be a proponent of say reducing the main inventory space to 10 slots? After all, you could argue that it forces players to think more about what they are going to use those 10 slots for. There are ways of making a system more strategic/engaging without making it cumbersome and tedious to the player.
Also, you have not touched on the fact that removing a less strategic forced step would increase the overall time you spent on the strategic part of crafting.

I approve of OP's suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Flyojumper

You are overemphasizing and overestimating the strategic elements added by micro managing item transfers between retainer and main inventory. It's really nowhere near as strategic as you make it sound. I'm curious, would you be a proponent of say reducing the main inventory space to 10 slots? After all, you could argue that it forces players to think more about what they are going to use those 10 slots for. There are ways of making a system more strategic/engaging without making it cumbersome and tedious to the player.
Also, you have not touched on the fact that removing a less strategic forced step would increase the overall time you spent on the strategic part of crafting.

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The mechanical act of crafting, i.e. pressing the buttons during a craft session, is not the strategic part. That's just a timesink, but a good such in the sense that you are forced to think more before the physical crafting. The strategy should already have been thought of and done before you even start the physical crafting.

Once you have crafted enough, like I have, you don't even have to think about the crafting per se anymore. You would already have an idea of how much time different crafts take in comparison to each other and what buttons you need to click and how your success rate is.

So what do I have to think about: time management, pricing and #selling slots. There are so many ways to get profit, but every person has 2 limited "resources": time and # selling slots. By introducing more and more variables to the time management problem, you force me to think more.

You got a valid point though: if you already were spending all your time thinking about other things, like the crafting system, then it would not make sense introducing a complex inventory management system as well to think about. However, the reality is that when you reach crafting endgame, there is a hell lot of time when you don't have to think at all and you just do because you've already thought enough, that's why the current or a more thought-inducing inventory management system is necessary: it introduces more thought in a endgame where there is far too little thought required.

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Originally Posted by Flyojumper

If you know and execute each step blindly (like a macro would) before the crafting has even started, then you are not 100% optimizing the quality you can get because of Goods/Excellent and their timing. That is fine if you have a buffer to work with and can 100% HQ the item 100% of the time with a macro, but otherwise, you need the human strategic element to adapt to when goods/excellent pop up and how to make the best use of them. There's more satisfaction crafting a lv40 HQ item when you are say lv35 than monotonously moving items around between your retainer and your inventory.

EDIT: because of posting limitations, I will probably respond to anything by editing this very post.

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You make it sound as if I would be completely surprised and amazed if I had a "good" or "excellent" happening. Of course the plan you figure out before crafting (endgame crafting) already knows exactly what to do when you get a "good" or "excellent" in different situations, so there is no actual thought to speak of when you see "good" or "excellent" happen, you know exactly what to do in such situations.

I suppose midgame crafting would be the point where you would find inventory management something that simply removes time you can use to optimize your crafting, because at that point you may not have enough experience to know exactly what to do in different situations, but you may have so many items so that inventory management becomes a problem to solve. During endgame crafting, you no longer really have to think much if at all about the crafting itself, so every little bit of extra thinking required counts at that point.

Edit: To be more precise what I mean about endgame crafting: the point where you have several classes where you can guarantee 100% HQ on i70 item.

Definitely on board for this, would be a great quality of life improvement. Or even a bank ala GW2 where we could deposit crafting materials would be awesome (although unlikely).

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Originally Posted by HurtigeKarl

The mechanical act of crafting, i.e. pressing the buttons during a craft session, is not the strategic part. That's just a timesink, but a good such in the sense that you are forced to think more before the physical crafting. The strategy should already have been thought of and done before you even start the physical crafting.

Once you have crafted enough, like I have, you don't even have to think about the crafting per se anymore. You would already have an idea of how much time different crafts take in comparison to each other and what buttons you need to click and how your success rate is.

So what do I have to think about: time management, pricing and #selling slots. There are so many ways to get profit, but every person has 2 limited "resources": time and # selling slots. By introducing more and more variables to the time management problem, you force me to think more.

You got a valid point though: if you already were spending all your time thinking about other things, like the crafting system, then it would not make sense introducing a complex inventory management system as well to think about. However, the reality is that when you reach crafting endgame, there is a hell lot of time when you don't have to think at all and you just do because you've already thought enough, that's why the current or a more thought-inducing inventory management system is necessary: it introduces more thought in a endgame where there is far too little thought required.

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If you know and execute each step blindly (like a macro would) before the crafting has even started, then you are not 100% optimizing the quality you can get because of Goods/Excellent and their timing. That is fine if you have a buffer to work with and can 100% HQ the item 100% of the time with a macro, but otherwise, you need the human strategic element to adapt to when goods/excellent pop up and how to make the best use of them. There's more satisfaction crafting a lv40 HQ item when you are say lv35 than monotonously moving items around between your retainer and your inventory.

EDIT: because of posting limitations, I will probably respond to anything by editing this very post.

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Originally Posted by HurtigeKarl

You make it sound as if I would be completely surprised and amazed if I had a "good" or "excellent" happening. Of course the plan you figure out before crafting (endgame crafting) already knows exactly what to do when you get a "good" or "excellent" in different situations, so there is no actual thought to speak of when you see "good" or "excellent" happen, you know exactly what to do in such situations.

I suppose midgame crafting would be the point where you would find inventory management something that simply removes time you can use to optimize your crafting, because at that point you may not have enough experience to know exactly what to do in different situations, but you may have so many items so that inventory management becomes a problem to solve. During endgame crafting, you no longer really have to think much if at all about the crafting itself, so every little bit of extra thinking required counts at that point.

Edit: To be more precise what I mean about endgame crafting: the point where you have several classes where you can guarantee 100% HQ on i70 item.

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It sounds to me like you are grasping at any small mundane task to find entertainment after you have personally gotten bored of the main entertaining part of crafting. If you are that bored and proficient at crafting end game that you basically have to put 0 thought into crafting, then I'm certain you'd be equally proficient and bored about a brain dead activity like moving items back and forth with your retainer. I suggest finding ways to keep yourself entertained with the main crafting part rather than try to keep a cumbersome inventory system just because of the busywork it creates. How about trying to 100%HQ that ilv70 by using the least steps possible? How about finishing the craft with the most durability left?

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Originally Posted by Lasteran

I love crafting in this game. It has been done extremely well. In fact, its so good I often find my entire inventory is full of crafting materials...as well as my Retainers. I end up having to spend an inordinate amount of time trading back and forth with my Retainer to get the crafting mats I need to keep going.

I propose that SE give us the ability to craft items with ingredients stored in the Retainer's inventory. To make it a little more realistic, I would require that the Retainer actually be summoned so they can "assist" by "handing the materials over" when I need them.

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This isn't possible because the retainer inventory isn't visible or in memory when not interacting with your retainer. SE will most likely tell you that the PS3 wouldn't be able to handle it or yada yada.

Also, it would probably take away the ability to store unique items and be able to obtain another one.

WOULD LOVE THIS!!

Did not see this topic and posted something similar, sorry
I am 100% behind this idea

I know there are several pages already so forgive me if I missed something and this has been said, but in everquest 2 when crafting in your guild hall - you could use ingredients from not just your personal inventory , but the guild crafting boxes as well. So I don't see why ppl think this idea the OP has is impossible because other games have something like this in some way or another ( not all but some ) ^_^ whether we will get that feature somehow , idk ~