Why There Are A Shortage Of Tanks, 2 Fixes

Having played a GLA to cap in Phase 3 and hitting 22 now, I gotta say three things are getting on my nerves.

#1 - GLA is boring. The class feels uninspired. Flash doesn't even do damage. That in and of itself is kind of disheartening. Here you are on the front lines, not doing any damage. And if you're not flashing shit, then do your three button combo over and over and over and over and over and over again.

#2 - Margin of aggro is minor. Archers seem to be on my ass, or bad healers who front load their AOE heals. Tanking is fun when you don't have to fight for aggro. If the job was focused on taking hits and control, I think more people would be into it. Instead, you have the added fight of aggro to create some semblance of a challenge. More often than not its just annoying because of the group environment. I'm a good tank and have been tanking for years, but every once in a while I get someone four levels higher in way better gear and WHEN they pull off me I have to deal with that stressful situation. I can only imagine the lack of fun that would come from someone new, or someone who is not a great player.

#3 - Shield Slam is on the GCD. This one actually pisses me off a lot.

as a healer in dungeons so far I have found that only about 1 in 3 tanks ..... actually tank... gladiators that don't use flash and marauders that don't overpower and neither seem to EVER use their defensive cooldowns but when I do get a good tank I love it.

oh and ACN's insisting their tank pet is better.....so before we get more tanks teach the ones that are playing how to tank..

I would also like to add that SMN's and SCH's, we know you have dots. You don't need to dot every fricken mob in the instance at the same time like your dps is that big of a factor. Sleep at higher levels is better then your weak dot's. All this does is force the tank to do more work and you to prolly die when you get those bad tanks. Hmm that's not a bad idea, time to let nubs start dying maybe they will learn :D

Edit - Would love to know why my level hasn't been updating. Haven't been 26 since saturday lol

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Originally Posted by Laeore

Having played a GLA to cap in Phase 3 and hitting 22 now, I gotta say three things are getting on my nerves.

#1 - GLA is boring. The class feels uninspired. Flash doesn't even do damage. That in and of itself is kind of disheartening. Here you are on the front lines, not doing any damage. And if you're not flashing shit, then do your three button combo over and over and over and over and over and over again.

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Nah, not if you're doing it right. There's plenty to do between popping buffs and cross-class skills (Fracture, etc). Flash doesn't need to do any damage - it generates plenty of hate without it.

Your job isn't to DO damage, it's to TAKE damage. If you're keeping everyone else alive, you're doing your job. And sometimes that's boring, and sometimes that's white-knuckle exciting...

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#2 - Margin of aggro is minor. Archers seem to be on my ass, or bad healers who front load their AOE heals. Tanking is fun when you don't have to fight for aggro. If the job was focused on taking hits and control, I think more people would be into it. Instead, you have the added fight of aggro to create some semblance of a challenge. More often than not its just annoying because of the group environment. I'm a good tank and have been tanking for years, but every once in a while I get someone four levels higher in way better gear and WHEN they pull off me I have to deal with that stressful situation. I can only imagine the lack of fun that would come from someone new, or someone who is not a great player.

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This, however, is VERY true. The margin when running dungeons is thin. If your group isn't good about sleeping mobs or giving you a few seconds to build hate, aggro peels right off the first time a healer heals; and for god's sake, if they are pushing Medica, the mobs will stream towards them...

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#3 - Shield Slam is on the GCD. This one actually pisses me off a lot.

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Quite the opposite for me. I compare it to MRD's interrupt, which is on its' own cooldown; they can interrupt every 2 minutes, I can do it 5 times during that time period. Comes in really handy.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Not sure if you're confused or not, but what he means is that it can't be used reactively unless you sit there and watch the boss because you would have used something else. Being on the GCD doesn't mean it has a long cooldown. Basically, what they are saying is that it would be better if Shield Bash could be used whenever if they have enough TP, instead of using Rage of Halone and getting caught with your pants down because 0.1 seconds later the boss uses a charge ability and you're sitting there mashing Shield Bash but you still have to wait an extra second.

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I wasn't confused - what you write here will never happen - you'll never have an interrupt/stun that isn't either on the GCD or on a long cooldown. It would be insanely powerful if you could do that. I was comparing Shield Bash to MRD's interrupt, which isn't on the GCD and has a long cooldown...

Right now, you have to manage your attack strategy well enough to know the rotation of the mobs, and be able to know when to anticipate a strong attack coming; this takes more skill than having an Easy Mode button that lets you interrupt any time you want. If you are getting 'caught with your pants down,' you SHOULD be, as it means there's actually a modicum of skill needed when tanking, and you can't just go balls-out all the time...

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Originally Posted by OrionInerghem

Do one dungeon on a tank class and you'll instantly know why tanks are in shortage.

Fix 1) Make any DPS that pulls hate on mobs you flash instantly get killed. Archers, I'm looking at you...

Fix 2) Instead of Fluid Aura knocking the mob back (and that move emerald carb does) Make it knock the player back instead of the mob.

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They curved it by making the beginning dungeons easy. The GCD is a limiter , but I really have issues with Lancers and Rangers not watching their hate meter, and I *might* accidentally let them die on purpose. I only pull them off when the healer is aggroed after several tries of re-gaining aggro. I tell the party ahead of time to give me a bit to generate threat, and mark one target for them to start. Have yet to wipe in any of the beginning 4 dungeons.

if no one ever made mistakes in a game, it would be SUPER boring to play...

i would fall asleep from knowing no one is ever gonna mess up...

so im not gonna complain if someone messes up in a game, sorry =P

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Originally Posted by Cycloptichorn

Quite the opposite for me. I compare it to MRD's interrupt, which is on its' own cooldown; they can interrupt every 2 minutes, I can do it 5 times during that time period. Comes in really handy.

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Not sure if you're confused or not, but what he means is that it can't be used reactively as much as he would like unless you sit there and watch the boss because you would have used something else. Being on the GCD doesn't mean it has a long cooldown.

Basically, what they are saying is that it would be better if Shield Bash could be used whenever if they have enough TP, instead of using Rage of Halone and getting caught with your pants down because 0.1 seconds later the boss uses a charge ability and you're sitting there mashing Shield Bash but you still have to wait an extra second or two. It being off the GCD would allow it to be used 0.1 seconds later even if you just used something else.

Sitting there watching the boss and not using anything just so you can Shield Bash wastes precious time you could have used something to keep your hate up.

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Originally Posted by Cycloptichorn

I wasn't confused - what you write here will never happen - you'll never have an interrupt/stun that isn't either on the GCD or on a long cooldown. It would be insanely powerful if you could do that. I was comparing Shield Bash to MRD's interrupt, which isn't on the GCD and has a long cooldown...

Right now, you have to manage your attack strategy well enough to know the rotation of the mobs, and be able to know when to anticipate a strong attack coming; this takes more skill than having an Easy Mode button that lets you interrupt any time you want. If you are getting 'caught with your pants down,' you SHOULD be, as it means there's actually a modicum of skill needed when tanking, and you can't just go balls-out all the time...

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Oh ok, the way you explained it was kind of vague.

Actually if you spammed Shield Bash you would run out of TP pretty fast (it costs a whopping 150TP) so even if it was off GCD it wouldn't really be an easy button, plus there is Diminishing Returns on Stun (Ifrit started resisting around the 3rd time I stunned one of his moves) anyway which further prevents it from being spammed.

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Originally Posted by OrionInerghem

Do one dungeon on a tank class and you'll instantly know why tanks are in shortage.

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It seems like there's just not enough penalty for these people to not pull the mobs.

Really makes me miss the days in FFXI where if you pull something like that= death sentence. I guess I'll always have the memories.

Or to quote the whm in my shell "OMG I just did Sastasha on GLD.. I'm NEVER using Fluid Aura again"

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I play whm and I understand where you're coming from. >.< You can do what I do though. Warn them to ease off the damage/hate. If they don't after 2 warnings, have the healer stop healing them. :p They tend to start paying attention once they're close to death. :p

Oh for the record. There's no penalty for dps's getting hate because whm cures incredibly well in this game. I've never had a problem with MP even when I was spamming sure all the time. Of course, just because you can get near infinite cures doesn't mean you're doing it right...

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Originally Posted by BlazeChronic

So much fail in this thread it makes me lolz....

Op raises a fairly valid point, and the DPS reply: I don't care if I don't follow the order, I can tank mobs that I pull off the GLD so I'm gonna go ahead and keep doing it! - Good luck with that post-Sastasha.

Did you ever stop and think that even if you CAN tank it, its not what you are supposed to be doing? Did you ever stop to think you are causing unnecessary trouble for your party? Did you stop to think that if you actually follow the mark order, you will actually kill the groups FASTER?

Did you ever stop to think that the tank who takes the time to mark the mobs is a great tank, and you should basically follow exactly what he says?

Oh yeah, you didn't stop to think about anything like that because all you think about is YOUR MAD DEEEPS and have no idea how to function in a group atmosphere. Go back to your hunter, thanks.



This is a very legitimate concern.

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Thank god someone knows what I'm talking about... I know in XI it was the DPS's responsibility as well to watch their hate and mob choosing, and I do great on DRG/MNK/BLM/ARC, never do I pull hate by just paying attention, and I'm sure my tank loves me for it. It's gotta be a partnership.

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Originally Posted by Ariyn

I would also like to add that SMN's and SCH's, we know you have dots. You don't need to dot every fricken mob in the instance at the same time like your dps is that big of a factor. Sleep at higher levels is better then your weak dot's. All this does is force the tank to do more work and you to prolly die when you get those bad tanks. Hmm that's not a bad idea, time to let nubs start dying maybe they will learn :D

Edit - Would love to know why my level hasn't been updating. Haven't been 26 since saturday lol

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This was what pushed me over the edge, basically a SMN soloing in group, wreaking havoc and not giving 2 ****s about the party.

Also: It was Yoshi-P who said they're a big shortage of tanks, not me.

First thing I ask when I zone into an instance as the tank

Please fight the same mob I am, I will mark them to keep it easy.
If you pull hate please don't run away, come toward me so I can pull it back if anything.
We'll stop and go over boss strategy right before we go in, any questions please ask, don't be afraid.
Food and buff and lets have a good time.

Haven't had a bad run yet after setting those guidelines.

Gladiator could use some improvement, and the easiest way to do that within the existing model is to give us something to do with MP besides Flash.

That said, I do not want them to attract tanks by trivializing threat. Making enmity easy for tanks to guarantee simply lowers the skill cap on both tank and dps classes. Blizzard went this way and I didn't really care for it. (Granted, in WoW playing a tank is challenging in other ways.)

Lastly, for these people yelling about Glad's interrupt/stun being on a GCD.. please stop asking for it to be taken ogcd, because when that happens, we will be slapped with a long cooldown like Marauders have. Our stun is actually more powerful because it is spammable to the extent TP allows. Mara doesn't have to worry about GCD but instead has a long individual cooldown, which is weaker, not stronger. (Situationally, yes there are some advantages, but they'll never be able chain multiple interrupts like we can.)

What I do is this:
1. Announce to group that I am the one who pulls, no one else. If they don't focus the prioritised mob or hit a slept one, they can sort it out themselves.
2. Mark targets. 1, 2, 3, sleep, ignore, whatever is applicable. Run in, flash, aggro rotation on non-slept mobs. Focus mob 1 down. Focus mob 2 down. Kill the rest.
3. If anyone except the healer/THM pulls aggro on any mobs except #1, it's their problem. If the healer has a problem with it, he will let them know, or let them die.
4. ???
5. Ask SE for bigger block-list because some people just don't learn and can't handle the consequences.


What they could actually do to make tanks more fun (GLA/PLD anyway) is to give us a retaliatory shield-bash that's not on GCD. Other than that, I am enjoying it. Not because of the class-design (one of the worst early class-designs I can think of), but because the dungeons are fun.