Early Access and NDA for video live broadcast

Kind of sucks because I'm trying to learn the dungeons prior to entering the game (since I main tanks all the time), but there's nothing lol

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Originally Posted by Proteus1

Whenever people get banned from Twitch, it makes gaming news. If 27 streamers got banned all at once, everybody and their brother would be talking about it on Twitch and several other forms of gaming media. Nothing like that has ever happened before and it would be huge news in the streaming community. Can you actually name any of these streamers who were supposedly banned? I don't even think there was a total of 27 people showing FF14 content on Twitch.

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From what I understand of the NDA and what some people were trying to pull, you can't stream screenshots in sequence to make it similar to video. During phase 3 I remember a few people who set it up to take a picture every 5 or 10 seconds and stream the picture til the next one was taken. It was a dumb work around with a rather clear intent. Scattered and random screenshots are different and take quite a bit of explaining on the part of the streamer

If I was going to stream during early access when it wasn't allowed I know the first thing I'd do would be to post about it on the official forums.

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Originally Posted by Proteus1

Nobody I know of got banned from Twitch, certainly not for showing FF14 screenshots. Guys who showed screenshots like Kripparrian, Towelliee, and CriticalChocolate are all still streaming right now as I type this. In fact go to CriticalChocolate's stream right now, he's showing nothing but a non stop FF14 screenshot slideshow right at this moment.

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What Lily said is correct. People were banned for streaming frame by frame slideshows, which in all essence is a low frame rate movie. People try bending around the NDA looking for loopholes where as I abide to the terms. I talk about the game, and i show screens.

These are not progressive screens, it is a random slideshow which alternates every 7 seconds, theres a big difference when you get down to it.

I was around watching people get banned and yes I've been streaming screenshots on my critical chocolate channel because I'm doing whats clearly noted in the limits of the NDA since beta phase 3.

to add to this

people on twitch were NOT getting banned what twitch were doing was removing the streams from the FFXIV listing so they could not be searched or gain new viewers and eventually everyone left, most if not all who had this had their accounts flagged for staff review

As we announced previously, video and audio taken during early access may not be posted or streamed.

Users are able to record video during early access (and previously, Beta 4) but may not post the video until launch.

Got a specific time out of curiousity, Bayohne? To avoid the whole time zone confusion?

All I have to say is "Why?"

Seriously

It's quite strange that there is still an NDA on a product we have purchased. In fact, I believe that is illegal in most countries, including the US and Canada if memory serves me right.

Can't understand why... but w/e its only 3 days but we need an exact time for when we are allowed to stream? worldwide time.

Why do they not want us showing off their amazing game? Especially this close to launch?

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Originally Posted by Yavi

It's quite strange that there is still an NDA on a product we have purchased. In fact, I believe that is illegal in most countries, including the US and Canada if memory serves me right.

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They're legal: http://jobsearchtech.about.com/od/la...sclosure_2.htm
Gives pretty accurate info, even if it refers more to employee NDAs. Some states it might be different, but yeah. Issue is, that its not in the User Agreement or anything like that currently. I mean, they do have the right to discipline accounts for any reason regardless and refuse service (to an extent), but they could essentially say no video and streaming at all, and while they might not be able to take legal action, they would be within their rights to take account actions. Its one of those loopholes really. Its technically not a legally (as in court) enforceable one, but its not illegal for them to enforce it either

Its odd as hell, but eh, sounds like there were some contractual things involved?

The official launch isn't until the 27th. I'm sure everyone can deal with a few more days of not streaming. Best not to get your account in trouble.

There could be many reasons involved. Early access will probably be extremely bumpy and they might not want that stuff streamed to the world if it takes people half a day to get into the game. They could still have contractual obligations with voice actors and other companies. Who knows. It's not really up to us to know the reasons though.

NDA fully lifted only at the official release so on the 27th @ x:00 PDT :3

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Originally Posted by Miyochan

Hi
I found some website that announce they will do live broadcast for this early access. As I remember correctly, the NDA for video post still effect and will not lift until the official release.

But I read that from the beta forum and when the beta forum was gone already. I just want to confirm with dev team here that the NDA still not lift for video live broadcast yet or not?

If that so I'll tell them not to do it or I'll report them hahaha:cool:

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With all the streamers who basically advertise your game for free why are you against free advertising?

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Originally Posted by Yavi

It's quite strange that there is still an NDA on a product we have purchased. In fact, I believe that is illegal in most countries, including the US and Canada if memory serves me right.

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Not 100% sure this applies during early access legacy players didn't purchase it

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Originally Posted by Rjain

There could be many reasons involved. Early access will probably be extremely bumpy and they might not want that stuff streamed to the world if it takes people half a day to get into the game. They could still have contractual obligations with voice actors and other companies. Who knows. It's not really up to us to know the reasons though.

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Sure would be nice if they threw us a damn clue though, wouldn't it? I mean, considering we all paid for this game at one point.

The Tos that we click "agree" on when in the process of installing the Game launcher, it has details about the terms of service agreement that we abide by agreeing to use the software.

they said nda is still in affect for EA. only people with special permission can live stream

I'll just leave this here...

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

As we announced previously, video and audio taken during early access may not be posted or streamed.

Users are able to record video during early access (and previously, Beta 4) but may not post the video until launch.

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I don't see why people are crying about it. In the first few days I want to PLAY not stream a video or make one. I want to PLAY. Sure I may record but I won't be editing in the first week or so of launch.

Lets face it, in Early access and official Launch there are ALWAYS an issue or two. Not one MMO launch has EVER gone flawlessly I believe ours might since our open beta brought attention to some issues. If there are issues why broadcast?

A lot of people need to realize that a lot of MMOs out there had their NDA in place at early release. NDA is in place until official launch.

Early Access is NOT official release. Do not confuse the two.

lame. i wonder how much this has to do with people that monetize their vids ruining it for others?

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

As we announced previously, video and audio taken during early access may not be posted or streamed.

Users are able to record video during early access (and previously, Beta 4) but may not post the video until launch.

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this is NOT enforceable under law at this stage.

I just checked loading the game and the agreement i agreed to does not cover media usage at all. and as i was not made to go through this agreement to access the game, you have no way to prove i agreed to that, and that would make you attempting to enforce this open to being sued for not providing a product that is fit for service.

If it is Square's intention to prevent us from streaming video/audio then these terms must be updated prior to launch to ensure that they are complete and legal in accordance with the laws of the countries of your users.

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Originally Posted by Xikeroth

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You could still play even if the NDA is lifted, I don't see the logic in your first argument - no one is forcing you to make videos or watch them. And no, pretty much every game, not just MMOs, these days lift their NDAs post-alpha due to the enormous free marketing potential to be had online.

Take a look at Twitch front page and you'll see Hearthstone hitting 20k+ viewers daily - yet it has been out for only about a week in closed beta; does SE not realise how foolish they're being? Not to mention when you put such a tight cap on ingame footage being released it really does send a negative signal to the market that either says "our game is incomplete" or "it is too shit to show you" or both.

Good game, but SE seem to have some awful decision-makers in their company.

@ infiltration

Not everyone will have early access. In fact many of people that want to play didn't pre-order at all, so they won't have it. Its not hard to understand. I don't see why you are complaining about NOT being allowed to make videos. Its not hard to understand. I don't care for twitch or game streaming at all. It doesn't bother me. What I am pointing out is how immature people are to have to be "FIRST" to post something about a game so that they can get views before others or maybe more views. That's all this crying is about. They want views that is all they are complaining about. They want to be able to have a large number of views since not many people can play.

Another point: Hearthstone also isn't an MMORPG so they didn't put a strict NDA on it.

The NDA being in place isn't rare. NDAs are in place until official launch. I already said this. Early Access is NOT official launch. Just have to deal with it for a couple days.

Why would they not want free advertisement for their game on twitch streams etc.?

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Originally Posted by Philderbeast

this is NOT enforceable under law at this stage.

I just checked loading the game and the agreement i agreed to does not cover media usage at all. and as i was not made to go through this agreement to access the game, you have no way to prove i agreed to that, and that would make you attempting to enforce this open to being sued for not providing a product that is fit for service.

If it is Square's intention to prevent us from streaming video/audio then these terms must be updated prior to launch to ensure that they are complete and legal in accordance with the laws of the countries of your users.

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they're going to make you agree to it prior to joining early access, right after you login and just before character select.

they reserve the right to deny service, and you COULD sue them for it, but the best you'll get is a game refund out of small claims court. legally speaking.

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Originally Posted by Sidrat

Why would they not want free advertisement for their game on twitch streams etc.?

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They will get plenty of that after official launch. its only 3 days. Most MMO players wait until after the initial launch of a game to start playing.

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Originally Posted by Xikeroth

Not everyone will have early access. In fact many of people that want to play didn't pre-order at all, so they won't have it.

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I paid for the game. I want to stream it. I don't care if other people never buy the game, I want to stream my copy of my game for my purposes.

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Originally Posted by Xikeroth

What I am pointing out is how immature people are to have to be "FIRST" to post something about a game so that they can get views before others or maybe more views. That's all this crying is about. They want views that is all they are complaining about.

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If that's what you believe I can't explain it to you, but let's just say streaming something with FFXIV's reputation is NOT going to make me a youtube star.

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Originally Posted by Xikeroth

NDAs are in place until official launch. I already said this. Early Access is NOT official launch.

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Then don't use early access as an incentive for purchases.

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Originally Posted by Xikeroth

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Your line of reasoning seems to be "I don't see why..." or "I don't care about..." and then you go on to say "it's not hard to understand" - the world doesn't revolve around you.

Fact of the matter is: streaming or making videos at this stage of the game's development will not harm you or anyone else. It's basically free advertisement from the community (community being the keyword). Don't SE (and you) want more people playing this game?

Just because Hearthstone isn't an MMO doesn't mean that it's a game that doesn't go through testing phases, marketing and what not. I was merely citing it as a recent example of the potential that SE has missed out on here. FYI it did have a strict NDA policy which was recently dropped.

Finally, nobody is saying early access is the official launch so you can stop stressing that. Having an NDA this close to release, especially without reason, in this day and age is just a sign of SE being out of touch.

I don't honestly think SE is making a horrible decision. Lets face it, the MMO community is judgemental as ****! Just look at the error 3102 and 9000, despite being errors outside of the game due to the stress everyone put on the server people still complained to the high heavens. In this day and age you got to hide everything because the MMO community is still far to immature to handle the slightest of things. Regardless, it is only 3 days and if that tests the patience of the audience that streamers display this to then they would never last past the first week anyway.

As other people said, when a game launches it usually has some problems and this gives SE some time to stabilize everything for your show. My words don't have the power to stop your from streaming as I'm unimportant to that decision some of you wish to make, however, you must understand the possible consequences of your actions.

Just wanted to edit in that I'm glad SE has been so open about its development decisions. I also hope I didn't sound harsh; but people like blowing the smallest of problems out of proportion. Have you seen the beta forums before getting closed? People stomping their feet at the sever issues and canceling their pre-order because of it. People are fickle and a slight problem during early access (huge amount of people causing: not enough realms, long que times, errors (they might not be completely fixed by now but has had some progress), etc) can turn people away from this game forever despite it being a really good game (well until I see endgame's longevity, ofc. :P)

Just so you know. I asked for Permission to stream on twitch through early access.

Their logic is absolutely retarded they're handling this terribly. We've already purchased the product and by the time Early Access is over I'll be level 50 and raiding skipping all the story quests and the beautiful game and losing viewers over it :/

So if we can't show the Game or Sound, What are we allowed to show then?
Early ScreenCaps? The Benchmark?

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Originally Posted by ZettsLive

So if we can't show the Game or Sound, What are we allowed to show then?
Early ScreenCaps? The Benchmark?

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I think you're allowed to show screenshots, but you can't make a slideshow of screenshots that are around 1-5s apart to make a mini movie out of them. At least from what I heard from someone in this forum.

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Originally Posted by Philderbeast

If it is Square's intention to prevent us from streaming video/audio then these terms must be updated prior to launch to ensure that they are complete and legal in accordance with the laws of the countries of your users.

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....as you link a post from SE stating before the game launches that you cannot stream.

If you want to stream EA that badly, why not just ask permission to do it.

Wow only losers stream games and only bigger losers watch them..... YOU GUYS NEVER PAID FOR EARLY ACCESS so that is why you cant stream it!

early access is a bonus.

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/8045...13/05/Owl1.gif

What does it matter what people do anyways? Each to their own.
If they want to risk it or believe that they haven't agreed on any NDA for Early Access, you should just let these people stream and upload videos as they wish.

It's their accounts, they're taking the risks, it has nothing to do with anyone else.

I can't stress it enough, each to their own. Now stop this silly argument, SE have said theirs, now it's up to people to decide for themselves if they want to risk it or not.

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Originally Posted by infiltration

Your line of reasoning seems to be "I don't see why..." or "I don't care about..." and then you go on to say "it's not hard to understand" - the world doesn't revolve around you.

Fact of the matter is: streaming or making videos at this stage of the game's development will not harm you or anyone else. It's basically free advertisement from the community (community being the keyword). Don't SE (and you) want more people playing this game?Just because Hearthstone isn't an MMO doesn't mean that it's a game that doesn't go through testing phases, marketing and what not. I was merely citing it as a recent example of the potential that SE has missed out on here. FYI it did have a strict NDA policy which was recently dropped.

Finally, nobody is saying early access is the official launch so you can stop stressing that. Having an NDA this close to release, especially without reason, in this day and age is just a sign of SE being out of touch.

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Afaik they have to keep the NDA up cause of their contracts with the Seyuu. Beta forums are down so i can't look that post up...

And i don't really understand why everyone is whining cause of 3 days they can't stream. You don't really gain any advantage neither if you stream during the EA....

THey need to repost what they concider video and streaming on this forum.

Mistyped the timing but anything 1 fps or faster is considered video.

Streaming is any screen captures within that rate across any streaming source that becomes automated.

I imagine if they change policy we have to re-accept so then we will clearly know when and if it is allowed. Riight now it is just stated for use of the product.