Um.. summer release?

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Originally Posted by Abriael

That's like saying that FFXIII is the same game as FFXIII-2 to be honest.

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I'd normally agree with you, but in this case I must clarify what Amherst meant. 1.0 and ARR are comparable because ARR is a reattempt at XIV. The story might be a continuation, but ultimately it's an updated version of the same thing, whether it uses the same client or not. We keep our characters and items, though the rest changes.

Indeed it's more analogous to that 4-part .hack series released on PS2. I never did get to play past the first :(

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Originally Posted by Yrusama

I'd normally agree with you, but in this case I must clarify what Amherst meant. 1.0 and ARR are comparable because ARR is a reattempt at XIV. The story might be a continuation, but ultimately it's an updated version of the same thing, whether it uses the same client or not. We keep our characters and items, though the rest changes.

Indeed it's more analogous to that 4-part .hack series released on PS2. I never did get to play past the first :(

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Keeping the same characters doesn't make it less of a new game. It's very comparable to a sequel.

Balur's Gate 2 is not the same game as Baldur's Gate, yet you get to keep your character. Same for the Mass Effect trilogy and many others.

New engine, new client, new assets, new gameplay mechanics, new environment. It's literally and by all means and purposes a new game. It shares the setting and reuses a few models, but that's as far as it goes, and many sequels do that as well.

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Originally Posted by Kayokane

Welcome back Neptune, I was starting to worry after you disappeared in January. :D

Also you do know they delayed the phase 3 beta to early June to apply the feedback from phases 1 and 2, right?

~Nyaa

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Thanks. I've been reading here and there, but nothing to post about until now. I'm aware of the date for phase 3 but if you take it all in context I think it's more because they had work to do and less because they stopped in their tracks to implement feedback.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

Restate: i trust better an insider then someone responding to him "Oh really? Tell me more." in a sarcastic behavor

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Then you are a

http://www.gamba.cl/wp-content/uploa...04/ovejas1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Oh no, you tell us more. Do you have any evidence of what you say, or all you have is "the previews disagree with my doomsaying, so they must obviously be dishonest!"?

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Evidence? Of what? That you agreed to an NDA? You already said you did. I'm not sure if you really don't understand what a contract is or if you're just too belligerent to read my post without coloring it with your own bias. I also didn't say anyone's reporting was dishonest, I said it wasn't honest, because to be honest there would have to be no NDA thus no restriction on what could be written. Do I really need to explain that to you? Surely you are capable of understanding that on your own. Also people (blind fanboys?) knocked "doomsayers" in 1.0 beta testing too. So things go without critical thinking and prebaked agendas.

So to sum up if you were a better journalist you would understand what a contract is without it being broken down for you, you would understand the effect of the NDA on your reporting, you would understand the kind of rosy scenario Square has painted for themselves with glowing (but notably restricted) press, and perhaps if you were a better person overall you would understand that I'm not doomsaying because I do enjoy the idea of the game and I posted to encourage it to be a success instead of having a rough launch.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Oh really? Tell me more.

Done and done.

Let's be a better journalist next time.

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...

Well you opened my eyes to something with that exercise, given your A + B = C conclusion, my only possible realization is:

• You don't have any semblance of a logical thought process.
• You have no deductive skills.
• You may have a critically damaged decision making paradigm.

Seek help. Honestly, I don't mean that as an insult in any way. If you really came to the conclusion you did from reading Abriael's response, then you have much bigger problems then a paranoid belief of corporate scandal.

So far, sites have posted in-depth impressions of the Beta (while following the NDA, something that you clearly don't understand). When it comes to information on the various game systems, Yoshi-P and his entourage have been more transparent than other developers on their respective games. The game will be at E3, the largest gaming press conference for upcoming games, to be tested by the press.

So please explain to me how the gaming press - people who are paid to write about any game-related thing shortly after it happens - won't have time to write their impressions of Realm Reborn before it launches. Your logic here is ridiculous.

The biggest difference between the original game's development and ARR's development is that with 1.0, Square was releasing a shitty game to begin with. Almost everything inside and out, from its engine to its server architecture, was a broken mess. All that Yoshi-P did was make the game's faults easier to deal with - they still existed, but in a lesser form - while working on the product Square should have released in the first place. Suggestions from players and the press couldn't stop a disaster of such magnitude from happening back during 1.0's launch simply because it would have required Square to scrap the entire game and start from scratch - something the producer and CEO adamantly didn't want to happen.

And the mainstream gaming press's complete lack of journalistic integrity? Congratulations - you finally understand how sites like IGN keep food on their contributors' plates. But not for the reason you think.

There are plenty of reasons, but the NDA is not one of them. A game journalists's impressions of a game are as simple as this: I like this part, I do not like this part. Any of the extra details are just ways for the writer to prove his point. There is no need to explain it in NDA-breaking detail - that's for later, when the game launches. Plus, anything that is released at E3 the journalists can write about - NDA doesn't apply there.

If you think the NDA will stop journalists from posting their general impressions on Final Fantasy XIV before it launches, then you are clearly wrong.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

cut

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There was an NDA in place to not write about any area outside Gridania or things wasn't in place of phase 2 beta (the same NDA got lifted about Gridania). Because you know, they were the parts still under heavy development. What they should wrote, about an area with missing textures, monsters, half the skill still under revision ?
Is this the kind of publicity you think they should do ? Your post is an insult

All you guys talking about the NDA as it relates to journalism, pretending as if it doesn't have an impact: you are delusional about that. More than that, none of you seem to care because very likely you are self-interested in the game and you can't see the bigger picture. The point of discussion you are failing to grasp is whether a restriction on reporting created an overpositive effect on feedback which had a delusional effect on the dev team's perception of the game's future reception. Have you considered that? If you want to discuss it let's be sure we're discussing the right topic and not talking about E3 like someone whose mind helplessly wanders.

On the subject of E3 I'm happily looking forward to the game's reception there. I think any critical response will lead to a better game.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

All you guys talking about the NDA as it relates to journalism, pretending as if it doesn't have an impact: you are delusional about that.

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No, you are trying to use the NDA as the "contract" from your first post to try and support your off-the-wall claim to save face. It's making you look silly, and infantile the more you try and back yourself up with faulty logic.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

More than that, none of you seem to care because very likely you are self-interested in the game and you can't see the bigger picture.

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For someone that talks about the bigger picture, you seem to only see your own. You have your desires for the game, your narrow view of what you remember happened last time. Through those blinders is how you see everything happening. Your arguments drawn out to conclusion would lead to companies never having NDA's in place, therefore no way to protect their intellectual property during development. You insist upon complete transparency from the company standpoint but ignore that the rest of the industry, community, and world would not share that moral high-ground.

You also assume that every word put out by anyone under the "NDA" is going to have to be positive because of the NDA, which has already been demonstrated false. Your argument has already broken down, your points make no sense, and anyone that uses a normal thought process would have a hard time trying to follow yours.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

The point of discussion you are failing to grasp is whether a restriction on reporting created an overpositive effect on feedback which had a delusional effect on the dev team's perception of the game's future reception.

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No, the point of the "discussion" is that you made an unfounded claim:

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Every news outlet has been under a contract to not give honest feedback about FFXIV

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THEN you go on to say that Square should "take temperature" before releasing information". So first you say every media outlet has lied. Yes lied. being "not honest" and "dis-honest" is the same thing. Look it up. That's one of those other things that leads me to believe that you have a critically damaged thought process, and honestly wonder how you function if you really perceive things this way.

By that statement, it also follows, that since every news outlet has been giving "not honest" feedback then nothing we have heard about the game is accurate. so all the negative reviews can't be trusted along with the positive. Now what?

No No, you said "every". Works both ways, there have been some invited to the private events that gave pretty negative reviews. So that must have been "not honest" as well right? SE must be playing mind games with us!

So is SE is purposely making media outlets release conflicting information by putting them under contract, how are they supposed to take temperature again?

Oh I know, this is where you come back and say "That's right! that's the point they can't!" Except you are forgetting where most of the feedback is being collected. From the same place where the people under the NDA can actually talk about things controlled by the NDA without breaking it.

Your argument holds no water. At all. It doesn't make any sense. Non-sense. ( dis-sense?)

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Have you considered that? If you want to discuss it let's be sure we're discussing the right topic and not talking about E3 like someone whose mind helplessly wanders.

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Seems you are the one trying to change gears and re-direct the focus away from yourself. You fail to address the points that call out the blatant holes in your arguments.

The only thing left to consider is why you are continuing to post at all? You didn't think your original post though. You tried to recover it with baseless insults and just made yourself look silly, you then attempted to try and recover with some kind of logical foundation and without understanding logic made yourself look incompetent.

You've dug yourself deep enough. You are 'helplessly' outgunned here, and I'm not even talking about me. I'm fairly confident that given the desire that most of the journalist that you insulted offhand could burn you to the ground much more thoroughly, if you were actually worth their time.

I'm not sure why I bothered to respond, perhaps I really am worried that you actually believe some of what you write. If you do then you really have a ...unique perception of reality, one that may not function well in society. It is possible you are trolling, and getting a good laugh out of all this. If that's the case, then good form, you got quite the talent there for getting the "bites".

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Originally Posted by Neptune

On the subject of E3 I'm happily looking forward to the game's reception there. I think any critical response will lead to a better game.

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Well, at least we have common ground on the looking forward to the game at E3.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

The point of discussion you are failing to grasp is whether a restriction on reporting created an overpositive effect on feedback which had a delusional effect on the dev team's perception of the game's future reception. Have you considered that?

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I'm pretty sure the devs play the game themselves and don't rely on a handful of "journalists" to gauge the game's quality.

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Originally Posted by Colino

I'm pretty sure the devs play the game themselves and don't rely on a handful of "journalists" to gauge the game's quality.

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That's without a doubt true. They surely rely more on beta testers anyway.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Evidence? Of what? That you agreed to an NDA?

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Nope. of this: "Every news outlet has been under a contract to not give honest feedback about FFXIV" :rolleyes:

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]You already said you did. I'm not sure if you really don't understand what a contract is or if you're just too belligerent to read my post without coloring it with your own bias.I also didn't say anyone's reporting was dishonest, I said it wasn't honest, because to be honest there would have to be no NDA thus no restriction on what could be written.

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First of all telling that someone's reporting isn't honest is exactly the same as telling that someone is dishonest.

Secondly you're running your mouth without any knowledge of what you're talking about.

We didn't sign any contract to write our previews. The only NDA we had was exactly the same every single beta tester agreed to (same site, same system, same text), as I already wrote and as you conveniently ignored. It had absolutely no specific restriction on what to write about and on how to write about it in any kind of article. As a matter of fact it did not even TALK about writing previews because it was the standard NDA for all players. The NDA was there to initially access the beta, and not to cover it on our outlets, and it forbid to talk about anything related to the game, like for everyone else.

Once the embargo on previews was removed the NDA ceased to exist for what those previews were concerned. The removal of the embargo is by all means and purposes a full exemption from the NDA, making it completely irrelevant.

There was nothing in the NDA that indicated what we could or couldn't write about after the drop of the embargo, nor there was anything about it in any further communication had with Square Enix.

We were authorized to talk about every single element of the game that was present in phase 1 and 2. Nothing was excluded. There was also no indication about being positive, negative or anything in between.

No indication was given other than the informal recommendation to use the screenshots provided and not our own (which again is standard practice for previews), separate from the NDA.

So yeah, you're making a false claim with no evidence about something you know nothing about.

Some developers do have you sign a specific NDA when you write previews, limiting what you can talk about because some elements are kept for future unveiling. But those NDAs never induce you to give less than honest feedback, as they don't in any way ask you to be less or more positive about the game.

In any case NO such NDA was required by square Enix when writing the preview of Final Fantasy XIV: ARR, and the removal of the embargo completely exempted us from the standard NDA as far as the preview was concerned.

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So to sum up if you were a better journalist

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Luckily exposing your lies and attempts to mislead and misinform doesn't mean being less than a good journalist. Quite the opposite, since the duty of a good journalist is to portray reality. Reality is that you made a claim that not only you can't prove, but that is also completely false under every point of view.

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you would understand the kind of rosy scenario Square has painted for themselves with glowing (but notably restricted) press

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Only, they didn't paint any rosy scenario, because the only restriction was about screenshots. There was no restriction of any kind on content and opinion, or on the topics we could talk about.

No. Restriction. Or. Indication. At. All.

Did i spell it easy enough?

If I felt like writing that the game was a piece of crap (obviously I did not), I could have done so. I had absolutely nothing preventing me from doing so, besides the fact that it isn't true. And differently from you I'm not into the business of making up stuff.

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and perhaps if you were a better person overall you would understand that I'm not doomsaying because I do enjoy the idea of the game and I posted to encourage it to be a success instead of having a rough launch.

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A good person points out a lie or a false claim when he sees one, and that's exactly what I'm doing. :rolleyes:

The fact that basically everyone that wrote a preview disagrees with you doesn't mean they're not being honest. It just means that they disagree with you, and that should probably tell you something about your own opinion.

Yeesh, calm down everyone! No need to start a flame war or anything. This is the lodestone forum after all. On a side note, does anyone know the specific date we will be able to pre-order or the specific date the release date will be released? I think both are supposed to come out in "late May" if I recall correctly and it is already the 18th.

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Originally Posted by jesseleewelch

Yeesh, calm down everyone! No need to start a flame war or anything. This is the lodestone forum after all. On a side note, does anyone know the specific date we will be able to pre-order or the specific date the release date will be released? I think both are supposed to come out in "late May" if I recall correctly and it is already the 18th.

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It's not a matter of flames. It's a matter of correcting a plainly and factually false and disingenuous claim. Lies are a bad thing, so it's always a good idea to wipe them off the table when they surface.

As for your question, at the NicoNico event Yoshida said around the 20th, so it's very possible that they'll be open on monday, or near that date.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

I remember when people denied a summer release of ARR because it was inconceivable.

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Holy shit change your fucking sig.

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Originally Posted by jesseleewelch

Yeesh, calm down everyone! No need to start a flame war or anything. This is the lodestone forum after all.

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LOL.......:D

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Originally Posted by jesseleewelch

Yeesh, calm down everyone! No need to start a flame war or anything. This is the lodestone forum after all.

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Welcome to General Discussion my friend.

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Originally Posted by jesseleewelch

On a side note, does anyone know the specific date we will be able to pre-order or the specific date the release date will be released? I think both are supposed to come out in "late May" if I recall correctly and it is already the 18th.

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You can probably pre-order at most game stores already. Gamestop takes pre-orders for games that don't even have release dates yet.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

All you guys talking about the NDA as it relates to journalism, pretending as if it doesn't have an impact: you are delusional about that. More than that, none of you seem to care because very likely you are self-interested in the game and you can't see the bigger picture. The point of discussion you are failing to grasp is whether a restriction on reporting created an overpositive effect on feedback which had a delusional effect on the dev team's perception of the game's future reception. Have you considered that? If you want to discuss it let's be sure we're discussing the right topic and not talking about E3 like someone whose mind helplessly wanders.

On the subject of E3 I'm happily looking forward to the game's reception there. I think any critical response will lead to a better game.

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So you're arguing that those who don't agree with your baseless opinion are self-interested and delusional. I guess the every-man's definition of delusion is completely different than your own. But it isn't the fact that you're simply incorrect that pisses us off: It's the fact that you disregard our arguments and call them off as fanboy-induced falsehoods despite us giving you the exact opposite.

To Abriael I realize you jumped on my comments without asking any questions to clarify your assumptions about what I meant by being under a contract. You assumed I meant that outlets had to sign some kind of contract forbidding them from writing this or that right? Like some sort of conspiracy theory? But that's not what I meant because I'm not an idiot right? If I meant that, that would be ridiculous. No, I was simply talking about the NDA and that's all. The NDA is in fact a contract and I feel like we're making readers dumber just going into the details of what I meant by that statement.

As you mentioned, your outlet in particular didn't sign any special, extra, additional contract so just in case anybody is unclear on that (I'm guessing about 0 people are) please take note.

Also I want to point out that it was my understanding that the lifting of the NDA had specific application; it was not a complete abolishment. So here's the actual statement from Reddit that I went off:

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FFXIV: ARR Beta Testers Permitted to Discuss Character Creation and Gridania
During the Nico Nico Super Convention 2 that will take place on April 27 and 28 in Japan, there will be a FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Beta demo area and we will be lifting the confidentiality provisions on:
Information related to character creation
Information related to New Gridania and Old Gridania
IMPORTANT: Please note that all other information about FFXIV: ARR, as well as images, videos, and sound, will continue to be confidential in accordance with Section 2.6 of the FFXIV:ARR Beta Test Agreement. This means that, except for the above listed topics, it will still be a violation of the Beta Test Agreement to disclose information related to the features and technology of the FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Beta Test, bugs, information posted on the Beta Tester forum, and any other related information (including testers’ comments and thoughts).

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http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen..._new_gridania/

You are saying your particular outlet had more freedom than that, but it really doesn't matter since the degree of freedom has no bearing on what I posted. There's still a restriction on screenshots, for example, and maybe that's something that people would like to see when forming an impression of a beta test. Not that there's anything wrong with wanting to withhold that to make a GOOD impression later. All I'm saying is there's an effort to kind of aim impressions for LATER instead of NOW when that exact same thing was the cause of the failure of the initial launch. Square even asked magazines to wait a month to review the original RELEASE of FFXIV. Why aren't you a little concerned by that consistency?

My comments about your journalism and humanity were aimed at defending myself, since you came in here like an asshole claiming I am lying and spreading false information and making such a big deal out of my post when that's a silly sideshow at best and arguing semantics at worst. I'm not some conspiracy nut out to troll the dead board, I'm just pointing out what I think is a reasonable concern over the health of the game's planned launch. I'm concerned and I think you should be too.

What you linked forom reddit is related only to non-media beta testers and not to media coverage.

The media had no restriction whatsoever in their coverage and were authorized separately. The NDA simply didn't apply anymore for us for what previews were concerned and we were allowed to talk about every single aspect of the game. In fact basically every outlet talked about more than the elements listed in that link.

The screenshot restriction is common practice in the industry, and there's nothing strange or suspicious in it. I'm personally a fan of taking a million screenshots and adding ginormous galleries to my previews. My Archeage one had 388 screenshots in it for instance, but I'm completely aware that it's a very normal industry practice to embargo screenshots until the drop of the general NDA (and some do it for media even AFTER the NDA is dropped).

For instance we weren't allowed to post our own screenshots even for Civilization V: Brave New World, and there's going to be absolutely no graphical change from vanilla Civ V and Brave New World. Why do they do that? Simply because that's common practice. Not all devs will abide to it, but most will.

Mind you, it's obvious that there's no intention to hide the looks of the game, as Square Enix themselves are showing plenty of it, and for some mysterious reason, while western outlets were asked not to use their own screenshots, all Japanese ones were allowed to.

This is probably due to SE Japan and SE USA and Europe handing media relationships completely separate from each other, but one thing is for sure. If SE had any intention to hide stuff during previews the restriction would have worked for everyone, Japan included (screenshots on the internet travel faster than light).

Opposite to what you think, I was absolutely surprised by the drop of the embargo so early in the beta and by the lack of coverage restrictions. I fully expected SE to wait for phase 3 (and actually a couple weeks into phase 3, not on the very first day, to force people to actually experience content before writing) to drop the embargo, as it's most likely that much more content and more polish will be conducive to even more positive previews.

I was so surprised that I didn't prepare in any way beforehand, thinking I had plenty time until phase 3, so I had to cram the preview writing for 15 hours in a row.

If there's one thing we can take from this, is actually the geometric opposite of your post, and it's that SE is very confident about the quality of the game and the feedback received, otherwise they wouldn't let us loose with writing about it.

And honestly, it doesn't seem you're clarifying now. It seems you're backpedaling. There aren't many ways to interpret "Every news outlet has been under a contract to not give honest feedback about FFXIV"

And that's simply false.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

And honestly, it doesn't seem you're clarifying now. It seems you're backpedaling.

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First thing I thought when I read his last reply.

The rest of your post was nice insight on how SE has let the game speak for it's self, so to speak. Kinda makes the thread feel a little more worthwhile to find those little tidbits.

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Originally Posted by Colino

Welcome to General Discussion my friend.



You can probably pre-order at most game stores already. Gamestop takes pre-orders for games that don't even have release dates yet.

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True. Amazon has been holding my preorder for the PS3 version since Aug 2010.

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Originally Posted by Rizon

True. Amazon has been holding my preorder for the PS3 version since Aug 2010.

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Did you have to put any money down on the preorder and do you think there's going to be much of a price difference between what it was listed as and what it'll cost now?