They should scrap the PS3 version.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fusional

log into official forums

see more alarmist drivel

360 and walk away

---

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...psd4374b5e.png

But we could have better grass if they scrapped it.

In all seriousness, I'd prefer if they cut PS3 development because it means more work for the superior PC users.

PS2 limitations.

PS3 version still has around two months of development time going into it before its phase of beta opens up. Yoshi-P has kept good on his word up until now, I see no reason why we should start doubting him now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abriael

You're not getting "insulted". You're being told you're wrong.

I guess some people take that as an insult, but it isn't.


As a matter of fact, I don't think so. I know so.



Only massive ignorance about computer hardware causes people to make a direct comparison between PC specs and console specs. Consoles run on a single hyperoptimized configuration, as opposed to the myriad of configurations on PC, which means that they can be juiced a lot more for power than a PC with the same specs.

Let's not even go into the fact that the PS3 has a completely different architecture, that alters performance quite masisvely as well.

The PS3 has been proven capable of running MMORPGs, and there's no reason to believe that FFXIV will be different.



You brought absolutely no evidence that "they shouldn't be releasing FFXIV for PS3". Your very personal and highly uninformed opinion is no evidence.

---

SPOT ON!

The ps3 is a monster in its own right, it will never outperform a pc with higher end hardware. I think the only thing i read that Yoshi said about the ps3 was memory issues but that was it. This game is gonna run smoothly on the ps3 i have no doubt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Norack

because its a much cheaper alternative than buying a computer..

---

That actually accounts for a lot. I'd be fairly certain it'd run a lot smoother on a ps3 than any pc you could buy for £159.99

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alerith

What was downgraded?

---

Namely zone sizes, textures, shaders. It's a little hard to tell if polycount was reduced too, but certainly seems that way on some of the buildings in gridania at least. Zone size is probably the most quantifiable of these since you can measure it, and also noticeable since, for example, Gridania the town is now two separate zones,which is obviously a pretty significant shrinkage from what used to be the entirety of the blackshroud and Gridania together in a single area. Some of this was to promote diversity of environments, but also, I imagine that much of it was due to PS3 memory limitations (i.e., Gridania the city now being split into two separate zones whereas 1.0 could handle it fine in one zone). Graphically, these things were changed to accommodate the lower specs of PS3, so if they threw out the ps3 version, it would make their efforts somewhat futile and downgrades hard to justify, except to say that now the game can be handled fine on low-end machines which could potentially attract a bigger playerbase.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClausL

I'm not sure why I'm getting insulted. They have shown us footage of FFXIV-PS3 running at extremely low framerate. do you think the extra 25% optimization really change the final product much?

and the PS3 hardware's specs and what the console is capable of are well known by now

Cut it out with the "SE CAN DO NO WRONG" attitude, people... look at the evidence, they shouldn't be releasing FFXIV for PS3

---

Im sure some people will be happy enough to put up with some framerate drops, even if it isnt ideal, and if it still persists as an issue in beta, im sure SE will try to rectify it. The main reason they will release on PS3 regardless of your misgivings is that they redesigned the engine purely to fulfil their promise of releasing on PS3, and that was a huge element of redeveloping the game to begin with; to re-instill a sense of trust which was previously lost with the "flop" of version 1.0. So framerate issues or no framerate issues, SE will release on ps3 if it kills them since they believe thats the only way they can regain trust and maintain their brand power. If they dont release on ps3, they probably see this as an admission of failure which would have repurcussions on future endeavours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tibian

But we could have better grass if they scrapped it.

In all seriousness, I'd prefer if they cut PS3 development because it means more work for the superior PC users.

PS2 limitations.

---

This is pretty short sighted. The PS3 version has a MASSIVE potential to make the game more successful and profitable, as it opens it to a very large audience that's sensitive to the Final Fantasy brand already.

Opening the game to a wider audience and making it more profitable is an advantage for PC users as well, for obvious reasons.

the "PS2 limitations" part I guess refers to Final Fantasy XI, which is an entirely different animal. The PS2 limited the PC in FFXI because the game was created for the PS2 and then ported to the PC. There was little upgrading that could be done without redesigning the assets completely, so the PC version didn't look too stellar.

On the other hand FFXIV is developed with PC as the lead platform, which means the PS3 version doesn't limit the PC version at all.

They could run on a completely different graphics engnine and still work together seamlessly online as the only necessary common denominator is the data flow. All the graphical assets are client side. As long as the assets that offer a level of interaction with the players are in the same position, the PC version could have gorgeous green grass made of 212232 polygons per blade and the PS3 version could have purple grass made of cubes and it'd change absolutely nothing functionality-wise.

Again, the PS3 version doesn't "limit" the PC version in any way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bobbygunz

Namely zone sizes, textures, shaders. It's a little hard to tell if polycount was reduced too, but certainly seems that way on some of the buildings in gridania at least. Zone size is probably the most quantifiable of these since you can measure it, and also noticeable since, for example, Gridania the town is now two separate zones,which is obviously a pretty significant shrinkage from what used to be the entirety of the blackshroud and Gridania together in a single area. Some of this was to promote diversity of environments, but also, I imagine that much of it was due to PS3 memory limitations (i.e., Gridania the city now being split into two separate zones whereas 1.0 could handle it fine in one zone). Graphically, these things were changed to accommodate the lower specs of PS3, so if they threw out the ps3 version, it would make their efforts somewhat futile and downgrades hard to justify, except to say that now the game can be handled fine on low-end machines which could potentially attract a bigger playerbase.

---

I'm sorry, but you're completely off mark. Those elements were not changed for the PS3 at all.

The split maps are to reduce server load and latency as every map is a server in the cluster. They're there to avoid having servers bogged down too often by maximum traffic. having zoning instead of a seamless transition between one server and the other (areas were still divided in different servers before, but the transition was partially invisible and you'd notice it only when zoning with someone else and they briefly became invisible) helps them optimize and reduce server load, and keep lag low.

The slight graphical downgrade in some areas was done in order to optimize the engine, let it visualize more than 40 players at once and introduce effects that previously were lacking, like dynamic shadows and lighting for instance, andthat's a BIG graphical improvement that eats a lot of resources.

Again, it has nothing to do with the PS3 version. For what would matter, characters could be photorealistic on one platform and and made of sticks on the other, and they could still be seamlessly paired.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClausL

I just finished watching the "Tour of Eorzea" video. They should really consider scrapping the PS3 version.

There was so much screen tearing and the frame rate was plain horrible. "We're bringing in the guys from Sony" doesn't give me much hope.

If they try to actually sell that for money, it will just piss even more fans off.

Who else agrees they should give up on the PS3 version? Release ARR for PC and perhaps consider a future PS4 release. :confused:

---

PS3 is only at 75% optimization, dig a little deeper next time. in otherwords, its still a work in progress.

dont even matter when its perfect PS3 version will suck period. its a 2006 console and there squeezing a 2013 pc game into it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fusional

log into official forums

see more alarmist drivel

360 and walk away

---

So you're... Going deeper into the forums?!

Surely scrapping the game would piss of fans just as much, and besides like others have said it is not optimized yet. The video did have me a little worried about the quality of the PS3 game but they have said it will improve and so we have to trust them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by indira

dont even matter when its perfect PS3 version will suck period. its a 2006 console and there squeezing a 2013 pc game into it.

---

Irrelevant.

XI survived on the PS2 long past the life expectancy of the system.

Also to any PC gamer that thinks a Final Fantasy game should not release on a console, you are an idiot and may want to take a look at the history of the franchise. How many FF games are available on PC?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akira_Tenshi

Also to any PC gamer that thinks a Final Fantasy game should not release on a console, you are an idiot and may want to take a look at the history of the franchise. How many FF games are available on PC?

---

This is irrelevant. No MMO, final fantasy or otherwise, should be released on consoles. Also, just because a franchise is historically released on one platform, doesn't mean that can't change- it in fact has changed many times, both for Square Enix and many other developers.

The reason is simple. Virtually all MMOs demand an extendable, upgradable platform, because the games themselves are extended and upgraded over time. Such games should not be released on platforms not capable of that. This isn't about being a PC fanboi, it's about simple facts and reality. Look no further than FFXI and PS2 limitations for the prime example of why an MMO should not be on a console. I have owned every Nintendo console ever made except the virtual boy; I don't hate consoles. But certain kinds of games are not well suited to them.

Capcom was very smart (in a rare display of smartness) with the Monster Hunter series. While the other games were released on consoles, Capcom chose to make their MMO, Monster Hunter Frontier, on the PC in order to be free of the limitations of the consoles avialable at the time. Later, it did release on the xbox 360 (Microsoft threw a lot of money at them to get them to do it), but that was the next generation and the hardware wasn't too likely to be stressed by the game for a while to come.

(For the record, FF7, FF8, FF11 and FF14 are available on PC; and several spinoffs are available on various non-console devices)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alerith

Irrelevant.

XI survived on the PS2 long past the life expectancy of the system.

---

FFXI was MADE for the PS2, even though it hit the PC first. get some facts, or were you still in diapers back then.

So this thing called internet, huh?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alerith

Irrelevant.

XI survived on the PS2 long past the life expectancy of the system.

---

Actually, it's not irrelevant, because XI is not surviving on the PS2 all that much longer- Support is gone in the US, and will be gone in Japan at some point after the new expansion comes out. XI tested and pushed the limits of the PS2 and can not grow or expand much more without leaving that platform.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

This is irrelevant. No MMO, final fantasy or otherwise, should be released on consoles. Also, just because a franchise is historically released on one platform, doesn't mean that can change- it in fact has changed many times, both for Square Enix and many other developers.

The reason is simple. Virtually all MMOs demand an extendable, upgradable platform, because the games themselves are extended and upgraded over time. Such games should not be released on platforms not capable of that. This isn't about being a PC fanboi, it's about simple facts and reality. Look no further than FFXI and PS2 limitations for the prime example of why an MMO should not be on a console. I have owned every Nintendo console ever made except the virtual boy; I don't hate consoles. But certain kinds of games are not well suited to them.

Capcom was very smart (in a rare display of smartness) with the Monster Hunter series. While the other games were released on consoles, Capcom chose to make their MMO, Monster Hunter Frontier, on the PC in order to be free of the limitations of the consoles avialable at the time. Later, it did release on the xbox 360 (Microsoft threw a lot of money at them to get them to do it), but that was the next generation and the hardware wasn't too likely to be stressed by the game for a while to come.

---

well WoW upgrades every expansion to use the new tech out there. proof it works to stay on a scalable platform

Seems like this forum's "I don't want anyone to have X" mentality is getting worse and worse the closer we get to release.

first just a quick question to op. What are your credentials and may I see your diploma in game design?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by indira

FFXI was MADE for the PS2, even though it hit the PC first. get some facts, or were you still in diapers back then.

---

to Indira FFXI came out in JAPAN to the PS2 first and foremost before it EVER was released for the pc

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XI

Quote:

---

PlayStation 2 version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__..._Japan.svg.png May 16, 2002 http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...States.svg.png/http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...Canada.svg.png March 23, 2004

PC version:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__..._Japan.svg.png November 7, 2002 http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...States.svg.png/http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...Canada.svg.png October 28, 2003 http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...n_flag.svg.png/http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...tralia.svg.png September 17, 2004

---

Quote:

---

to Indira FFXI came out in JAPAN to the PS2 first and foremost before it EVER was released for the pc

---

The PC version was planned from the beginning. It doesn't matter when it came out- and to everyone except Japan, the PC version came out first- because in every other region, PC gaming was much more prominent.

that still doesn't matter since it still originally came out on the ps2 though *shrugs*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bobbygunz

Namely zone sizes, textures, shaders. It's a little hard to tell if polycount was reduced too, but certainly seems that way on some of the buildings in gridania at least. Zone size is probably the most quantifiable of these since you can measure it, and also noticeable since, for example, Gridania the town is now two separate zones,which is obviously a pretty significant shrinkage from what used to be the entirety of the blackshroud and Gridania together in a single area. Some of this was to promote diversity of environments, but also, I imagine that much of it was due to PS3 memory limitations (i.e., Gridania the city now being split into two separate zones whereas 1.0 could handle it fine in one zone). Graphically, these things were changed to accommodate the lower specs of PS3, so if they threw out the ps3 version, it would make their efforts somewhat futile and downgrades hard to justify, except to say that now the game can be handled fine on low-end machines which could potentially attract a bigger playerbase.

---

Maybe for the 10 people who could actually run 1.0 on max settings. I had to turn down so much to run 1.0 at a decent framerate but I could run the benchmark with no issues at max. For the vast vast majority of us ARR will look better.

If the ps3 in beta 3 is still tearing then it is time to panic.

But I can garentee you one of 2 things will happen.

1) They will actually optimize it, they have their team and now a team from Sony helping them to maximize what the ps3 can do.

2) They will reduce the graphics more... the ps3 is already running at surprisingly high graphics between Mid and High setting according to Yoshida. test the benchmark yourself for pc. Change from High to Mid and turn off some of the fancy settings and it drastically improves. They can do the same thing for PS3, it will look slightly worse but improvement will drastically improve at the same time.

People on the forums saying it is a lost cause proves their own ignorance. They are acting like the game is being printed and sent out atm. PS3 is not even in beta yet. People are judging a working development build as a released game... the stupidity of that just has no real comments.

Everyone knows ps3 is not ready including the devs. And if anyone can push graphics to the limit on consoles SE can.. that is 1 thing they are good at and playstation is their home turf.

They've been promising the PS3 version and have gotten this far, might as well finish it.

/dislike the OP...They will not trash the ps3 release and they better not. It is obvious they know how the video looked also and i'm sure they won't release the ps3 version until it is the best it can be. I only got 2600 on benchmark on my pc, and i'm sure my ps3 will run the game way better than that. so i'm excited for it.

its gotten quite warm in here lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

This is irrelevant. No MMO, final fantasy or otherwise, should be released on consoles. Also, just because a franchise is historically released on one platform, doesn't mean that can't change- it in fact has changed many times, both for Square Enix and many other developers.

The reason is simple. Virtually all MMOs demand an extendable, upgradable platform, because the games themselves are extended and upgraded over time. Such games should not be released on platforms not capable of that. This isn't about being a PC fanboi, it's about simple facts and reality.

---

Nope. It's about not knowing what you're talking about :D

Quote:

---

Look no further than FFXI and PS2 limitations for the prime example of why an MMO should not be on a console.

---

Look no further for a completely unfitting example that describes a completely different situation, that mind you has already been explained in this thread and a million of other times.

FFXI was limited by the PS1 for the simple fact that the PS1 was the *lead platform*. The game was developed for PS1 and then ported to PC. Its core assets were designed for the the PS1 and could not be upgraded to PC standards unless they were completely remade for scratch.

This problem does not appear when PC is the lead platform and the game is only ported to consoles, as assets can be downgraded easily and as much as you want to fit ONLY the console version, while the PC version can remain untouched.

It's no different from any other games made for consoles and ported to PC. Unless the developer is willing to do a lot of additional work on them, they're bad for PC standards. See Skyrim and many others.

But if you look at Crysis 3, it easily looks like one of the best PC games out there graphically, while on consoles it looks a TON worse. It has not been limited by consoles, because PC was the *lead platform* and the game has been just downgraded to fit on PS360.

Your point about MMORPGs needing an upgradable platform is equally and completely off mark. A MMORPG that runs on PC on consoles doesn't even need to run on the same engine to run seamlessly on the same server. All that needs to be common between the two platforms is the data flow about characters, enemies and variable elements and the collision map so that a character doesn't look stuck inside a wall on the other platform. That's it.

You can very easily upgrade the engine of the PC version without even touching the PS3 version, as long as the collision map of the world is the same, the PS3 version could be made with the graphics of minecraft and the PC version could be evolved to photorealism and it would. not. pose. a. single. problem.

You, sir, are just involving yourself in the usual meaningless exercise of platform elitism, no matter the fact that you say or think you aren't.

Should check this Interview with Yoshi P from Gamer Escape:
http://gamerescape.com/2013/02/21/ga...iv-media-tour/

The first question is regarding exactly this.

Quote:

---

GE- Being a long time FFXI player, I have concerns about the hardware limitations the PS3 hardware will have on the PC client. I know with PS2 and FFXI there were memory limitations and things like that- and because one console is burdened by these limitations, the other clients had to adhere to those.

Have there been any steps taken so that the PS3 hardware won’t hold back other clients?

Yoshida- To be honest, the biggest problem we had with XI was yes the memory, but also the hard disc space. But with the PS3, you can add as much as you like, so to be honest I’m not really concerned about that.

Also there was a fundamental difference between XI and XIV was made. With XI it was based on the PS2 and then that was brought over to windows. On the other hand with XIV we’re making the windows version first and then bringing it to PS3 without reducing the quality too much. We’re making sure the balance is good for PS3 players, but the foundation is on the windows version.

---

Psht.. See that ps3 over there?
Yea, that one.. looking all smug..
Lets go beat it.. beat it gooodd..

Personally all I see from cross platforms, is the limitations they bring to the pc..

Until Sony makes a way, to create easily upgradeable consoles, they will always be steps behind.
Those steps will always bring limitations to the pc.

I stopped playing on consoles for this very reason.
They have always caused limitations.

Everyone just needs to go out and buy a computer already.. :P
Come on.. do eeeetttt..

Regardless of what you think. They 'promised' to release it for Ps3 ever since 1.0. They can't scrap... or else someone will sue. And you bet your ass someone will definately sue if they do scrap the Ps3.

Also they want to reach the more domestic audience. Even though the PC is considered future proof, many people don't have the time, knowledge and/or money to upgrade anyways. And yes, you can say "well they shouldn't play MMOs then" but (SE) doesn't share that opinion either...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nokinator

oh btw my computer is 18 years old and i got a 9000 score so i think the Ps3 will be fine

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nix

This is a bit hard to believe lol ><

---

Lol...Compaq Presario for the WIN

Bunch of "I know it all" kids. So you kids think if your mom get all beat up in the face, she'll stay forever ugly? She'll never heal huh? Can't restructure her face eh? If the media say this and that, you kids would be the first one up believing like "oh shiet, ice creams are falling from the sky!" Please just sit down and look cute, and let the grown up take care of the business.

And you know what make things worst? If you kids are actually adults. Now feel more pathetic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

Lol...Compaq Presario for the WIN

---

I want to play FFXIV on my Commodore 64 and I won't be satisfied until I can. Even if it comes on a thousand tapes, I don't care. D:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by indira

FFXI was MADE for the PS2, even though it hit the PC first. get some facts, or were you still in diapers back then.

---

I'm not arguing which system it came out for first, and if it was made specifically for the PS2, then it shouldn't be the PS2 holding it back. I'm also not saying that XI would last forever on the PS2.

What I am saying is that your suggestion that XIV on PS3 automatically fails because the system is older is irrelevant, because XI survived on the PS2 after the console had become outdated. Regardless of whether the PS2 is no longer supported for XI in the near future does not take away from the fact that it was a successful MMO on that platform.

The PS3 is not yet outdated, even with the announcement of the PS4. It will still be many more years before the PS3 becomes dated enough for XIV to no longer be supported on it, and in that time, it can still have a very successful run.

That, and what is SE going to do, cut out a market of people who want to play it on their PS3? That itself would be something as simple as a horrible business decision.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

Lol...Compaq Presario for the WIN

---

lol my first computer ever was a Compaq Presario many years ago when I first started playing ff11 XD I too upgraded the video card on the Compaq Presario after a few years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nosiahk

Bunch of "I know it all" kids. So you kids think if your mom get all beat up in the face, she'll stay forever ugly? She'll never heal huh? Can't restructure her face eh? If the media say this and that, you kids would be the first one up believing like "oh shiet, ice creams are falling from the sky!" Please just sit down and look cute, and let the grown up take care of the business.

And you know what make things worst? If you kids are actually adults. Now feel more pathetic.

---

That's... the internet for you basically. Thought you knew that already. Anyone can throw a reaction anytime down here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nayto

That's... the internet for you basically. Thought you knew that already. Anyone can throw a reaction anytime down here.

---

Eh... was directly at OP and whoever agrees with that moronic turd. What gives..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nosiahk

Eh... was directly at OP and whoever agrees with that moronic turd. What gives..

---

Eek I gotta admit, I didn't know who your statement was directed toward lol, but thanks for clarifying :)!!