Spiritbinding = Ex?

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

We shall continue this discussion in the beta forums once we're in~

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You, me, beta thread. Nao.


:D


I feel bad for these forums once beta starts - some people are going to be all alone lol.

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Originally Posted by Altena

^This.

It is certainly one of the "better" topics to actually bring up in the beta forums.

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Yeah really. No one should make any more threads until Beta.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Yeah really. No one should make any more threads until Beta.

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LOL that's gonna be super hard for the trolls :)

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

LOL that's gonna be super hard for the trolls :)

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Well, they could always necrobump. =/

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Well, they could always necrobump. =/

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Or make 1 line posts.

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Originally Posted by Altena

Or make 1 line posts.

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^______________^

http://img0090.popscreencdn.com/1048...ntage-nwt-.jpg
Don't feed the trolls.

Most games do bind on equip so crafters can keep selling stuff since its use it on 1 character then its pretty much out of the economy.

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Originally Posted by AmandaHuggenkiss

http://img0090.popscreencdn.com/1048...ntage-nwt-.jpg
Don't feed the trolls.

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Trolls look more like this..

http://www.goodcatch.org.uk/site_med...e_handline.jpg

The hater's the baiter! :O

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Originally Posted by Saiph

I get it this game has Crafters as Classes so there will be a lot of items in the market.
But why not add more options to remove items from the game rather then restrict the options even further?

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Bound gear is usually vendored (thus effectively removed from the economy) or sharded (via reverse engineering, de-synth, disenchanting). I guess this is more a way to prevent market saturation, which does happen in games with unrestricted resale.

I'm still have trouble wrapping my head around how Materia is a gil sink. Sure the item is gone, and you lose all selling power, but the money you invested to buy it in the first place is still circulating with whomever sold it to you.

I've always assumed that Gil Sinks is something that would take Money out the system entirely, such as buying from an NPC, Retainer stalls and taxes, and Airship fees.

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Originally Posted by Rau

I'm still have trouble wrapping my head around how Materia is a gil sink. Sure the item is gone, and you lose all selling power, but the money you invested to buy it in the first place is still circulating with whomever sold it to you.

I've always assumed that Gil Sinks is something that would take Money out the system entirely, such as buying from an NPC, Retainer stalls and taxes, and Airship fees.

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It would depend on if the total profit to materia is higher then the cost from materia - you'd have to total the servers profit gained and lost to make the best choice of what it was. Some people make big money off of double melds, but those are the ones that happen there may be people breaking more then making and we'd have to total it (it being RNG might mean on some servers it is and others it isnt, lol!).


I'd be curious to see that information - like what made / lost the most money and such.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the closet in the Inn rooms reset your spirit bond on items placed in it to 0%?

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Originally Posted by MetaVale

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the closet in the Inn rooms reset your spirit bond on items placed in it to 0%?

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It did, but I think you can only place certain things in it, anyway. Rare/ex things?

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Originally Posted by MetaVale

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the closet in the Inn rooms reset your spirit bond on items placed in it to 0%?

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It did.
I get the feeling that "something magical" happens to the item when you gain exp the first time with it equipped making it change somehow so you can't trade/sell said item.
Of course I am only guessing, we'll find out for sure soon.

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Originally Posted by Rau

I'm still have trouble wrapping my head around how Materia is a gil sink. Sure the item is gone, and you lose all selling power, but the money you invested to buy it in the first place is still circulating with whomever sold it to you.

I've always assumed that Gil Sinks is something that would take Money out the system entirely, such as buying from an NPC, Retainer stalls and taxes, and Airship fees.

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It's not a gil sink because there isn't an NPC shop around to buy materia from, taking it out of the game.

In 1.0, people used to buy a lot of items to meld, or buy the materia to meld them. Some people also spent a lot of time farming and crafting items they could have otherwise sold, investing time and energy. When they blew up, they would lose their investment in the items that went, in the hopes that a few good materia would stick.

Most of the time they did not go to the market ward to sell these multi melds, they would use them. If after a while, they got a better item, or melded a better item, they could then sell the one they had. The price reflected the current market as well as the extreme rarity of good Triple melds. It also reflected the demand for the melded gear in that particular class.

With the new system (unless there is an NPC that unbinds items) you have a choice, you either use it, or you sell it. You can't do both. It's not taking gil out of the system, it's taking GEAR out of the system. In theory, this will reduce supply and increase the price of the item that has a good meld on it. But that's only if people are still dependent on melding in the first place.

Remember, materia is not going to be the "I Win" button it once was. Will people still clamor for multimelds in the same way as they did in 1.0? If demand lowers sufficiently, that could offset the drop in supply. Also, materia melds won't be rigid stacking any more. What you need in a meld will depend on what character stats you have. If most people will be making their own melds, the demand will drop that way too.

All this is theory and we don't really know the consequences of this decision, but I'm predicting that it's going to be a good thing because it'll give crafters more to do. And what's good for crafters is good for gathering!

This new systems is real bad move on SE's part. This is an element from mainstream that should of stayed there, one of the best things of XI was being able to work towards an investment and not lose 100% of that work when the time came to sell.

This is one of the many failed mainstream mechanics that SE should of never even considered putting in this game.

Two thumbs down from me on this SE. I hope people actually stand up against these bad decisions in beta.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

This new systems is real bad move on SE's part. This is an element from mainstream that should of stayed there, one of the best things of XI was being able to work towards an investment and not lose 100% of that work when the time came to sell.

This is one of the many failed mainstream mechanics that SE should of never even considered putting in this game.

Two thumbs down from me on this SE. I hope people actually stand up against these bad decisions in beta.

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What defines a failed mainstream mechanic? I'm seriously curious.. lol


I mean its obviously not the game that determines if its failed.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

What defines a failed mainstream mechanic? I'm seriously curious.. lol


I mean its obviously not the game that determines if its failed.

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In XI crafting, armor, and almost everything heald value for near a decade. People where willing to put in the work to get something because that work was never lost, even when the armor was outleveled. A 5mill peice of armor was worth something sometimes more depending on inflation.

IN most mainstream mmos all your work gets flushed down the toilet every 5 or so levels because you have to buy something new but your old 5mill gear is now worth 5-10k at most at a npc that you can vendor it to.

It is a stupid mechanic, it is suppose to help the economy but it has been proven in past games it does not.

Most western mmo and newer releases use it... lots of copy paste, but it never was the best method of doing things.

Official translation is up now:

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

We wanted to give you more information about the item binding that was mentioned in the Letter from the Producer Live IV.

For items that bind to characters, it will not be possible to transfer them to characters under the same account.

Also, since we are planning to make it so once you accumulate more than 1 point of spirit bond the item will be bound to you, as long as you do not fulfill this criteria it will be possible to transfer it to other characters.

Finally, regardless of whether they are bound to you or not, EX items and such that could not be transferred previously will still not be able to be transferred.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post956725

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

This new systems is real bad move on SE's part. This is an element from mainstream that should of stayed there, one of the best things of XI was being able to work towards an investment and not lose 100% of that work when the time came to sell.

This is one of the many failed mainstream mechanics that SE should of never even considered putting in this game.

Two thumbs down from me on this SE. I hope people actually stand up against these bad decisions in beta.

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Why is this a failed mainstream mechanic, when something binds on equip it gets taken out of the economy allowing crafters to make more money and sell stuff easier instead of the market getting flooded with items that are never removed and lose a ton of value over time.

People only buy expensive gear at level cap, nobody is going to spend a fortune on leveling gear, which is often made of cheap materials that are not hard to come by.

I read the official response and was like ...."WTF??? since when is this guild wars 2??? >.>"

If they plan on doing this tho, if they implement an npc you can pay to deplete the spiritbond back to 0, I'd support it. The system they propose could and would encourage crafting, and then also those who want to share or trade, or even sell multi melded gear can. We all win.

No more high prices on gear since there won’t be any one selling multi meld equipment. Also with the other information about materia being easier to meld onto equipment, which turns out who will really need to buy materia when you have a high chance to attach materia onto equipment and at the same time farming for materia was never really a hard thing to do.


Only people loosing on out this is the ones who were selling multi-meld equipment at a ridiculous amount of gill lol.

^ beta hasn't even started yet. I wouldn't plan on antyhing we know about the game being 100% or solid. Besides, there still will be multi melded gear for sale on the market wards/auction house....as longas theres no spiritbond, it can be sold.

I'm a crafter, but I don't want soulbound gear. Bad idea SE. One of the features I don't like about WoW. I like to use the gear I craft, but I also like to sell it once I'm done with it. Are you telling me I either have to discard it or keep it in my inventory occupying space? No... I can't accept this... bad idea, really bad idea!!

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Originally Posted by VoltaAsura

^ beta hasn't even started yet. I wouldn't plan on antyhing we know about the game being 100% or solid. Besides, there still will be multi melded gear for sale on the market wards/auction house....as longas theres no spiritbond, it can be sold.

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Ahh thanks for the correction. ^^b

This is going to suck when you can't sell a triple melded piece of gear you've been using after you get something better or equivalent.

Vendor or materia :\

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Originally Posted by Paix

No more high prices on gear since there won’t be any one selling multi meld equipment. Also with the other information about materia being easier to meld onto equipment, which turns out who will really need to buy materia when you have a high chance to attach materia onto equipment and at the same time farming for materia was never really a hard thing to do.


Only people loosing on out this is the ones who were selling multi-meld equipment at a ridiculous amount of gill lol.

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People will still sell multi melded gear its just when someone equips it, its theirs for life and can't be sold. You just can't resell your old gear after you have used it.

bound armor FTL. now whatever you spend is worth nothing once you equip it. thats the shitty move SE.
looks like there really going in the WoW standard. we'll be grinding gear to no end level cap goes up then your equipment useless.

Bound Armor doesn't bother me as much as removing the belt graphics. (Chainmails looks like dresses now :/...)

Granted it will turn the game into a materia-fest, but that's not necessarily bad if they do it right and not shoehorn it in like they did in 1.0. If anything, I'm really interested in seeing how it all plays out when the game is released.

This is great for the economy, if I understand the translations correctly. The best gear in the game will be from raids/chests/instances anyways which is rare/ex from the start so should not be all that bad for people who are worried, most crafted items will be used for spirit binding purposes anyways, and double melds will not be worth as much as they were in 1.0 as double/triple melding in ARR will be more common. And the few hot crafted items that will be worth a decent amount of gil, well this new system will at least keep their value for more than a few days.

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Originally Posted by schism

Yep pretty much everything you said. And imo the armoury can go in the trash with it lol.

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This is the best move they could have done, specially with tons of quests in ARR that spit out 1-2 pieces of armor/weapons/rings and there is hundreds of quests, if they did not do this, crafting would be totally out the window. As nobody would ever buy anything in wards that is crafted since most likely they will get it from a quest.

As long as it doesn't mess with crafting i'm fine.

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Originally Posted by AdorraEloom

This is the best move they could have done, specially with tons of quests in ARR that spit out 1-2 pieces of armor/weapons/rings and there is hundreds of quests, if they did not do this, crafting would be totally out the window. As nobody would ever buy anything in wards that is crafted since most likely they will get it from a quest.

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This is one thing from other MMOs's I really really don't want to see in XIV. Keep the rare/ex. Materia melding and blowing up gear makes crafting useful as it is as did converting to materia. We don't need to be bent over cause we buy something as a temp or to work with a certain build only to have to npc it for 2 gil instead of making some $ back. FFXI and XIV have been unique from most other mmo's in that you can have different gear setups on the same job but still be almost equal because of the variety of stats and being able to compensate for a variety of stats on different pieces. There is no one clear cookie cutter best gear set. That along with playing every job on the same character makes for a crappy situation to have everything spiritbound. I could maybe see it for quest gear but not on crafted gear or drops. I know it's headed the direction of a borderline WoW/every other mmo clone but this is something I don't think belongs at all.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

This new systems is real bad move on SE's part. This is an element from mainstream that should of stayed there, one of the best things of XI was being able to work towards an investment and not lose 100% of that work when the time came to sell.

This is one of the many failed mainstream mechanics that SE should of never even considered putting in this game.

Two thumbs down from me on this SE. I hope people actually stand up against these bad decisions in beta.

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Biggest problem ff11 had was overflowing armor in the AH, like scorpion harness's, on my server there would be at least 20 for sale at all times, and people under cutting constantly just so they could get theirs to sell (1 a week would sell). This was a result of having the ability of selling items once you used them. And ff11 had a small population compared to other MMO's, which ARR hopefully and is planned to have a huge player base. But seeing how this was a big problem in ff11 with a small population imagine how bad it would be if they kept the same re-sale system with a huge player base, sure would be fine and dandy for the first few months but after a few months all crafted items would be worthless and crafting would die off instantly.

I suppose another way around this with a big population could be to introduce new crafted armor and weapons every month that are a bit better than the previous month, than you might be able to follow the same re-sale rules as ff11, how ever I'm certain most would complain about that too, as their old armor would now be out dated and again that would drop in value.

As much as most people feel this is a bad idea, I strongly disagree, this is a must for the economy, and since the economy should be good, than people should have no worries as making gil will be possible! even in 2-3 years! so buying upgrades more often will not sting as much.

I laugh at some people's logic. "I spent 100 gil on these pants and DARNIT I want to sell em back for 100gil!" Really? So, what's the point of gil then anyway if you are just gonna sell something for what you paid for it?

I'm all for this, it creates a demand for goods.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/12579/scorpion-harness

Here's an example Scropion Harness use to sell for about 20m, then 10m, 5m, 1m, 500k 100k, now its at 50k. Still a lot of people buy a scrop harness but since you can resell stuff it just loses its value over time.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/12579/scorpion-harness

Here's an example Scropion Harness use to sell for about 20m, then 10m, 5m, 1m, 500k 100k, now its at 50k. Still a lot of people buy a scrop harness but since you can resell stuff it just loses its value over time.

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That is kind of my point, so lets say 1 year ago a bunch of people bought the scorpion harnesses for 1 mil, 1 year later they decide to sell them back to get their "Investment back" problem is now they are selling for 30k, because people are done with them and are just under cutting to get rid of them. It's no different than NPCing them with this new system or turning it to materia, It is still a loss with both systems but with the new system at least crafting will be use full still, in ff11 crafting is pretty much done, 99% of crafted items in ff11 are not worth a persons time, it's cheaper to buy the finished product than to buy the materials and craft it in most cases.

This doesn't really change anything for me. I must be a minority of people who would always always blow up the old gear i just made another better version of.

Dying an item would reset spirit bond i remember but the materia and +1 would remain. This may not apply since dying is going to change. Pretty sure it was said we will be able to dye dyed gear so something will likely be tweaked. If not, at worst, you'd have to be a crafter to loophole your way out of being stuck with sb'd multi-melds. This also wouldn't bother me at all.