Climbing in ARR - Ladders, Rock/Ivy Walls

"What if player try to exploit ladders for combat ?"
Let them exploit it, it's called "strategy". FFXI was stupid to let mobs "teleport" at you by climbing vertical ledges.
I suggest to implement a feature that prevent you from attacking a mob that didn't see you...people will try to exploit "initiative"...

"What if they press jump ?"
They jump and they fall. Since there will be fall damage, you'll have to pay attention when you jump.
The game can't hold your hand every time you might make a mistake...

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

"What if player try to exploit ladders for combat ?"
Let them exploit it, it's called "strategy". FFXI was stupid to let mobs "teleport" at you by climbing vertical ledges.
I suggest to implement a feature that prevent you from attacking a mob that didn't see you...people will try to exploit "initiative"...

"What if they press jump ?"
They jump and they fall. Since there will be fall damage, you'll have to pay attention when you jumps
The game can't hold your hand every time you might make a mistake...

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Isn't this feature already in XIV where it says. "The target is to far above/below you". Which I always thought was weird response being an Archer! lol I shoot things I should be allowed to shoot things from afar above! Below probably not so much because the wall more than likely would be in the way. (realistically that is!)

Which this is something they would need to change if they are going to allow for climbing.

I can see it going both ways though. They either allow you to attack from above/below things or not at all! And if you did climb it should be slow. What I mean by this is, I would like to see the character grab onto the wall and actually climb up it moving both hands and feet correctly up the wall. Only certain surfaces would be climbable. Like in most games where, stuff covered in Ivy/or specific rock texture would give the player the visual queue that. "Hey, this is climbable!"

It would be awesome if they could allow us to climb any wall! Or all Wall/Tree/Rock in the game is climbable except for the outer edges of the zone where there is nothing to get to. Or the outer edges of zones that had textures to indicate that you could climb here. The edge of zones typically would have no destination to get to once you climb it. It's the edge of the map after all!

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Originally Posted by finiteHP

I like the idea of being able to climp as long as the pervs go up before me.

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Wheres the fun in that? ...not like i need it to see up skirts been a Lalafell and all

I'm not against this idea, I am however saddened by how we are allready starting to hear "PS3 limitations" being pulled out of the old "We don't really want to do this" hat.

It's also sad that making new animations is a expensive task, gives them more reason to never look back at giving us proper movement animations ever again. Let alone making the attacks all have unique animations might fall to the wayside as well.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I'm not against this idea, I am however saddened by how we are allready starting to hear "PS3 limitations" being pulled out of the old "We don't really want to do this" hat.

It's also sad that making new animations is a expensive task, gives them more reason to never look back at giving us proper movement animations ever again. Let alone making the attacks all have unique animations might fall to the wayside as well.

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You can have all the animations you want in a single player RPG like Kings of Alamur Reckoning but this is a MMO

I think climbing is a great idea. If it can't be implemented I think everyone and the Dev's should focus on the point of it, the end result. The game would be far more in depth if we were able to see things from a birds eye view. Especially when in towns and important area's. I loved the way GW2 did their jumping puzzles and Vista's. When you got to the top and looked out you were like, WOW! did I just come all the way up here?

As far as climbing itself it's not really required but we should have ways to get up and down. Idea's such as vertical lifts(thinking of the wall in Game of thrones atm lol) to get on ramparts and walls, lots of stairs and magical lifts. Let your imagine go and I think the variety of these types of things in the game will make it come alive.

Really? We already got jumping, holy crap.

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Originally Posted by Warlock

You can have all the animations you want in a single player RPG like Kings of Alamur Reckoning but this is a MMO

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Never stoped them from giving each race unique animations in FFXI a 10 year old game that until recently had to deal with PS2 limitations...but you know we should just not say anything at all right?

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Never stoped them from giving each race unique animations in FFXI a 10 year old game that until recently had to deal with PS2 limitations...but you know we should just not say anything at all right?

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I don't want a FFXI-clone

I still want a crawl button.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5...52fo1_1280.jpg
Sneaking.

In many online games, I've seen multilevel tall thin outposts with ramps going up them if you have to get to the top. That seemed like the dumbest idea every time I saw it. If you were building an outpost 2 or 3 levels above the ground, would you go to all the trouble of building the ramp or would you just put a bloody ladder on/in it..? And a lot of games have ladders that you can't climb, as if to taunt you... Bring on ladder climbing, scenic vistas, hidden areas, trapped NPC's afraid of heights and exploratory achievements! Yay for climbable ladders!

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Originally Posted by mbncd

In many online games, I've seen multilevel tall thin outposts with ramps going up them if you have to get to the top. That seemed like the dumbest idea every time I saw it. If you were building an outpost 2 or 3 levels above the ground, would you go to all the trouble of building the ramp or would you just put a bloody ladder on/in it..? And a lot of games have ladders that you can't climb, as if to taunt you... Bring on ladder climbing, scenic vistas, hidden areas, trapped NPC's afraid of heights and exploratory achievements! Yay for climbable ladders!

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If you've ever played Dark Souls you'd know how much you love a drop ladder. With Yoshi talking about wanting to make longer bigger dungeons, ladders/climbing added to his (and the level designers) list of tools would be an indispensable boon.

(Better level layouts, and just more enjoyable - since as you say those useful unusable ladders are so damn annoying lol)

I love the idea of being able to climb stuff like ladders and crap. And climbing has played a role in FF series before. And this could add a great dynamic to the game.

And it's a peeve of mine when i see a ladder in game that no one can climb...not even the npc's are seen climbing them. I think this is a stellar idea.

I'm ready to start climbing! Ladders are meant to be climbed!

I would love to see some secret places or hideouts, that you can reach only by climbing. I just got some crazy idea ... make climbing a learnable skill, without this skill you could climb only low edges etc. and with it, you could climb vines, steep hills and other high/low places that you couldn't reach any other way. Of course this idea has no place if SE will implement flying mounts. What do you think ?

Well, Yoshi-P. It's time to scrap all the maps and do it again. Now they want climbing. But hey, won't it be fitting if you end up releasing the game in 2014?

Yeah sorry it could be fun, but all the work to redesign map for it, program all the moves to do it (YoshiP said it take a looot of time to program the moves of characters).

I don't think it's worth. I prefer more content than climbing, coz you know if they had climbing there's a lot of things you won't have in game coz of the time of development, they have to make choices doing that or that, you guys really want climbing whereas a better development of the story for example? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Yrusama

Well, Yoshi-P. It's time to scrap all the maps and do it again. Now they want climbing. But hey, won't it be fitting if you end up releasing the game in 2014?

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Leave it for the first big expansion ..just like FFXI added climbing in CoP

Personally I think that it is a great idea. It is something minuscule, but I think it is a nice touch. Ever since the long ladder scene from snake eater, I highly support the idea lol.

yes, allows you to plan out better vertical dungeon designs. it really shouldn't even be a do you want it question.

I like the idea in general, but it has to be paired with a strong actual purpose and presence to it such as vertical dungeons. One or to walls in some dungeons wont cut it or make it worthwhile to implement.

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Originally Posted by Warlock

I don't want a FFXI-clone

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Yes...yes.

Because pointing out that a 10 year old MMO can do something that FFXIV apparantly has trouble with means I want a clone. When you trying to tell me that if I want good animations I need to stick to single player games.

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Originally Posted by Yrusama

Well, Yoshi-P. It's time to scrap all the maps and do it again. Now they want climbing. But hey, won't it be fitting if you end up releasing the game in 2014?

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If same as old school game RPG programming... the way I know, maps are made by placing objects together. On the object you set setting such as passable, or none passable and you can assign motions to them. It will cost devs to create the new motions, that's for sure, but they won't need to redesign the maps at all. They can just replace or add new objects in existing maps to climb or go lower in existing map model.

Actually, why stop at climbing and jumping.

Let's have hanging.
http://b.vimeocdn.com/ts/348/532/348532431_295.jpg
And digging.
http://www.dog-obedience-training-re...om-Digging.jpg
Swimming!
http://store.justinhankins.com/image...40429_3767.jpg
And flight!
http://www.rodazlan.dubster.co.uk/bl...at-Dubstep.png
And interdenominational quasi-temporal reverence trotting!
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs44/f/20..._crotafang.jpg

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Originally Posted by Gramul

And interdenominational quasi-temporal reverence trotting!
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs44/f/20..._crotafang.jpg

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I want to Back Pedal there!!

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Actually, why stop at climbing and jumping.

Let's have hanging.
http://b.vimeocdn.com/ts/348/532/348532431_295.jpg
And digging.
http://www.dog-obedience-training-re...om-Digging.jpg
Swimming!
http://store.justinhankins.com/image...40429_3767.jpg
And flight!
http://www.rodazlan.dubster.co.uk/bl...at-Dubstep.png
And interdenominational quasi-temporal reverence trotting!
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs44/f/20..._crotafang.jpg

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I expect all but the last of these in various expansion packs, but hey, it's Final Fantasy, the last one might be coming too one day ^_^

I would like to see this and swimming.

A thought that came to my mind for this specifically.. It'd reduce its usefulness, but why not design it for in dungeons? Future dungeons, mind you. It reduces the whole redesigning every map thing. Animations still have to be made, but hey.. that can be worked on post release, and added in expansion packs/huge updates.

I'd rather just find the green chocobo that could scale mountains, like those horses from skyrim.

But on a serious note, ladder climbing shouldn't be too hard to implement. A good chunk of videogames already has ladder climbing. If animation's too expensive we can do it the old classy style where the character can just walks up the ladder :P

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Originally Posted by Nayto

I'd rather just find the green chocobo that could scale mountains, like those horses from skyrim.

But on a serious note, ladder climbing shouldn't be too hard to implement. A good chunk of videogames already has ladder climbing. If animation's too expensive we can do it the old classy style where the character can just walks up the ladder :P

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Wasn't ladder walking how it worked in FFVII? There's the nostalgic references everyone wanted right there XD

Seriously though, I fully support scripted climbing events (as in set items you can climb, not necessarily every wall/mountain/etc; some examples would be ladders, ropes, hand holds, vines - heck, even a scripted event chimney for the Starlight Celebration, I wouldn't mind a little Chim Chim Cher-oo time up there ^_^) all over Eorzea 100%!

Bring on the great heights! ^_^

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Cost of building new animations.
As YoshiP mentioned in the interviews that the cost to build new animations/motions are high and also there may be PS3 memory limitations to add in more animations.

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SE always complain about memory limitations on the consoles but usually in the strangest of places. We had it on FFXI with inventory and mog house space and here with animations. Animation files are pretty small in comparison with other visual assets. If they're really that low on memory we can say good bye to being able to have any new models for weapons or armour and definatly no new textures so more equipment at all. I can't see this happening. We're going to get new equipment, new mobs, etc. All of these use much more memory than animations, especially the mobs since they'll have new animations of their own, and model data, textures, particle effects for attacks, sounds effects, etc.

There will be time constrains to adding additional animations and they may consider it less worthwhile to add new emotions because they are a purely visual aspect and add nothing to gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

While climbing up/down/across how to handle if during battle? Wouldn't players try to use this feature as advantage to battles?
It's possible the players can use this feature to avoid getting hit from mobs while in battle.

My solution would be to not allow climbing while you are being targeted by a mob. If you're in a party, those party members that have the target will be the ones who can't climb. But say for others like WHM, if you cure or something you will be added in the hate list so it will also not allow them to climb during the duration of the fight. But at the same time I also feel like for example, archers, they should be able to shoot at mobs from the other side of the ledge, or from the top so restricting too much would cause problems imo.

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That would be one way. Another could be to allow people to climb during combat as part of the strategy but allow mobs to chase if they need to. Players could be knocked off walls they're climbing, maybe even the monsters too.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

What if you press 'jump' button by mistake while climbing?
Dev's could either lock the jump key while you're climbing OR if they are going to add damage values when you fall it may be good to leave it alone. But there will be people who will press jump by mistake so they need to come up with something for sure imo.

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Plenty of other games allow you jump off walls as you're climbing so that could be an option. Otherwise just lock out jump if for some reason it doesn't work well.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

What if you're on a mount?
I would just say, they need to get off first. Being able to go up/down/across with mount would just increase more work for devs to create those animations.

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I agree. While some climbing mounts could work I think its better that you need to be unmounted to climb.

Climbing is something I'd like to see along with other moment features such as swimming and vaulting over small walls/fences. Given that we're only now getting the ability to jump, I can't see it happening though.

I think my climbing while fighting large monsters will have to be kept to Monster Hunter.

It's a fun idea, but I don't see any real use for it. In other games like the Souls games where enemies can climb after you and kick at you to make you fall down, and you can do the same.

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Originally Posted by finiteHP

I like the idea of being able to climp as long as the pervs go up before me.

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Be reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Arkine

It's a fun idea, but I don't see any real use for it. In other games like the Souls games where enemies can climb after you and kick at you to make you fall down, and you can do the same.

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If the only purpose of a ladder to you in Dark Souls was to kick enemies I think you didnt understand how much insane amount of time they saved you. Most useful things ever... lol, that and they are awesome for when you dont have space or logical reason to put an elevator or stairs (which can happen a lot, specially if you are trying to create a particular feeling).

Ladder = incredibly useful.

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Originally Posted by Arkine

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Originally Posted by finiteHP

I like the idea of being able to climp as long as the pervs go up before me.

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Be reasonable.

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100% right, I'm always going to go up after the Miqotes. :D