PROVE: ONE HUGE REASON FFXIV FAIL - BATTLE SYSTEM

I honestly loved ff:xi way of parties, I just wish different jobs could have been in different roles. I always wanted to be a drk tank lol. But yeah I'm so impatient to find out what yoshi-p has planned for classes and battles in xiv.

Looks like you were spamming you attack with Battle Regiment on.

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Originally Posted by Galamantyl

I am strongly against the ninja tank

Not because I don't like the ninja. If it's one thing I hated about FFXI, it was the ambitious desire for every party to have a ninja tank instead of a paladin or warrior tank. It was bad enough (imo) that Warrior got the back seat to tanking closer to the endgame.

However, I thoroughly enjoyed the ninja job. The need to manage your abilities and time them made it fun. But because common practice was to fight one monster at a time, the ninja replaced any conceivable tank. Even at endgame levels, ninja was the subjob of choice for tanks.

I am strongly against fighting one monster at a time

There is a way to make multiple opponents work, just not the way they did it in FFXIV. If you all recall Dynamis, every linkshell had it's own system for dealing with multiple spawns. There should be more incentive to fight multiple monsters over one at a time.

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That raises an extremely interesting notion. FFXI style partying with different numbers of monsters. Like a tag team of sorts, like two "tanks" one healer and two damage dealers. Both damage dealers can pull enemies, tanked by each tank while the healer heals, buffs, etc.

It's an interesting idea.

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Originally Posted by Anathiel

I honestly loved ff:xi way of parties, I just wish different jobs could have been in different roles. I always wanted to be a drk tank lol. But yeah I'm so impatient to find out what yoshi-p has planned for classes and battles in xiv.

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Haha and i wanted to be a DD paladin!

Jokes apart, more variation is the way to go, but i think there should still be limits to the roles otherwise the different classes would lose a reason to exist, like in the current FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Kirith

Haha and i wanted to be a DD paladin!

Jokes apart, more variation is the way to go, but i think there should still be limits to the roles otherwise the different classes would lose a reason to exist, like in the current FFXIV.

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Not really, just give them more options, pld and drk could be either tank/dd. Lol now I'm getting into the class system. But honestly I see OP's point but I think whatever they're coming up with is probably gonna be an original idea that is put together from some old systems.

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Originally Posted by Kirith

You could do other things while waiting for a party in FFXI, but people were so dead set on partying the whole day long they would be unable to think/do anything other than waiting excitedly for an invite. Obviously after 10 hours of waiting anyone would feel dreadful.

I still think that sort of thing shouldn't happen again, but i'd take it over the current system any day. SE thought they could solve it by making jobs flexible, but instead of giving single classes many roles they gave a generic role to every class.
The two systems are opposite extremes, if you will.

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I agree, hopefully the adjustments to the classes will make them more unique from each other like in many FF games. It really isn't necessary for the classes to be so generic, you would still be able to solo just as well on leves if you needed to.


I think a big problem with the game is just the length of the fights. When the mob dies in 5 seconds there is no need to coordinate anything, so this should be changed along with the class uniqueness. Increasing the mobs resistances and HP, as well as balancing there attacks and giving them more enfeebling skills and buffing abilities would improve the battles greatly and give more of an incentive for doing regimens, and it could be balanced by simply increasing the SP/EXP awarded by killing them due to the longer fights.

The imbalance is also a huge issue with the guildleves. I believe that needs to be adjusted along with the class uniqueness. It's supposed to be 1 star = solo 2 star = band 3 star = party, yet I can solo a 2 or 3 star leve solo. How does that make any sense? Or how about when a party of 4 does some leves on 3 stars and everything dies incredibly fast and easily, but when they do it on 4 to make the fights more interesting, they get one shotted by an aoe.

I also feel they should allow it to be possible to roam grind more effectively in the game at all ranks post 15 or so. Sometimes I want to rank up all day, yet after my 8 leves I have nothing else to do but craft. It should be a lot more viable to do both, without taking a hit to SP/hr either way. I would like to see mob distribution change in all areas and rank ranges so that those of us that choose to grind can. They don't need to be like in XI where we sit in one spot, but more like the raptor grinding we have now, or perhaps give us some cool dungeon areas like king ranperre's tomb so we can roam grind. Guildleves will always be around for the soloers and the groups that just want to party for maybe an hour or 2, but the players that play for longer stretches of time need to be catered to as well. Obviously it would have to wait until the battle system changes and hopefully similar mob changes to what I pointed out, but I'd like to see it at some point.

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Originally Posted by Kazimir

I agree, hopefully the adjustments to the classes will make them more unique from each other like in many FF games. It really isn't necessary for the classes to be so generic, you would still be able to solo just as well on leves if you needed to.


I think a big problem with the game is just the length of the fights. When the mob dies in 5 seconds there is no need to coordinate anything, so this should be changed along with the class uniqueness. Increasing the mobs resistances and HP, as well as balancing there attacks and giving them more enfeebling skills and buffing abilities would improve the battles greatly and give more of an incentive for doing regimens, and it could be balanced by simply increasing the SP/EXP awarded by killing them due to the longer fights.

The imbalance is also a huge issue with the guildleves. I believe that needs to be adjusted along with the class uniqueness. It's supposed to be 1 star = solo 2 star = band 3 star = party, yet I can solo a 2 or 3 star leve solo. How does that make any sense? Or how about when a party of 4 does some leves on 3 stars and everything dies incredibly fast and easily, but when they do it on 4 to make the fights more interesting, they get one shotted by an aoe.

I also feel they should allow it to be possible to roam grind more effectively in the game at all ranks post 15 or so. Sometimes I want to rank up all day, yet after my 8 leves I have nothing else to do but craft. It should be a lot more viable to do both, without taking a hit to SP/hr either way. I would like to see mob distribution change in all areas and rank ranges so that those of us that choose to grind can. They don't need to be like in XI where we sit in one spot, but more like the raptor grinding we have now, or perhaps give us some cool dungeon areas like king ranperre's tomb so we can roam grind. Guildleves will always be around for the soloers and the groups that just want to party for maybe an hour or 2, but the players that play for longer stretches of time need to be catered to as well. Obviously it would have to wait until the battle system changes and hopefully similar mob changes to what I pointed out, but I'd like to see it at some point.

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I think the whole difficulty selection of guildleves needs some good explanation, as I agree that it's pretty vague about the game calculates it.

Take heart though, as through my explorations of all the currently open zones in Eorzea(still missing 7 named), there are plenty of areas on the map that look like they'd be perfect for dungeons or raid-type areas, while there are also plenty of areas that are blocked off by invisible walls and "this area is currently inaccessible" messages. This probably means these areas will be filled with stuff eventually.

I feel the solo world mobs should stay weak and that they release dungeons with hard mobs in them for party play. And make them scary mobs lol, huge rats doesn't cut it.

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Originally Posted by Zaene

That raises an extremely interesting notion. FFXI style partying with different numbers of monsters. Like a tag team of sorts, like two "tanks" one healer and two damage dealers. Both damage dealers can pull enemies, tanked by each tank while the healer heals, buffs, etc.

It's an interesting idea.

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I think this is what SquareEnix was going for in the first place with FFXIV. It just seems like it was poorly executed. Because of how fast-paced combat is now, it's become a spam-fest of AoE attacks.

Youtube video's don't show what the gameplay is like. XIV parties might look interesting on video as it looks like a lot of things are happening at once but if you've played in even the most mundane grind party in XI you can easily tell that a basic XIV battle is challenging enough for a drooling vegetable but mindless bore to anyone else.

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Originally Posted by Anathiel

I feel the solo world mobs should stay weak and that they release dungeons with hard mobs in them for party play. And make them scary mobs lol, huge rats doesn't cut it.

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If they were all weak than the open world would be incredibly boring. We need some sort of challenge when getting through areas.

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Originally Posted by Seif

Youtube video's don't show what the gameplay is like. XIV parties might look interesting on video as it looks like a lot of things are happening at once but if you've played in even the most mundane grind party in XI you can easily tell that a basic XIV battle is challenging enough for a drooling vegetable but mindless bore to anyone else.

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I thought everyone who liked the XI battle system was a Drooling Vegetable...so then they should like XIV too! Sadly, they don't seem to...so then this means that XIV is not for Droolnig Vegetables.

The videos used for comparison are waaaaay off. You're comparing a party play of 5 against an engaging monster, with a party of 2 against a puk << in alpha stage.

FFXI has more strategy and more clearly defined roles. But it is much slower than FFXIV. But even in FFXIV people assume roles. I've been in parties with gladiators tanking, archers pulling, conjurers healing and thaumaturges debuffing and buffing.

Anyway, if FFXIV was launched with all the content in FFXI, I don't think people would complain about the battle system. Only about the classes/skills. Then again, I don't know cuz people would have no reason to bitch anymore so probably would complain about it anyway xD

i love how people compare the videos of fights and take completely unrelated fights and post them as a side by side. i should go looking for one where someone is sitting in xi for hours waiting for a party next to one in xiv where someone is actually fighting a mob. they would be about as good of a comparison.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i love how people compare the videos of fights and take completely unrelated fights and post them as a side by side. i should go looking for one where someone is sitting in xi for hours waiting for a party next to one in xiv where someone is actually fighting a mob. they would be about as good of a comparison.

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I should take a video of someone doing a battle in puzzle pirates and post it next to a warcraft raid video and do a comparison too

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Originally Posted by Blair

See It yourself


This is FFXI:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbBHl...eature=related
(Unless you never played FFXI, the above is a great example of PARTY play)

THis is FFXIV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8KSD...eature=related
(Until lv50, until patch 1.16a, grinding is smiliar to this )


Yeah, FFXI party waiting is definitely worthed it.

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I see 2 fail.

1. a repetitive gameplay (FF11)
2. a low level troll thread

This does not mean FF14's combat system is perfect, but at least, compare it with a modern, good, well done combat system.

FFXI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s7WQCzPGEE

FFXIV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRM96Ko2Igs

I can be like the OP too...

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Originally Posted by Blair

See It yourself


This is FFXI:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbBHl...eature=related
(Unless you never played FFXI, the above is a great example of PARTY play)

THis is FFXIV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8KSD...eature=related
(Until lv50, until patch 1.16a, grinding is smiliar to this )


Yeah, FFXI party waiting is definitely worthed it.

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The whole "(Until lv50, until patch 1.16a, grinding is smiliar to this )" makes me think the TC was trying to get by on an Alpha footage.

The real question of this whole thread is....did the TC purposely link alpha footage and try to fool the viewers?

And they are barely attacking it....

i.. never attack so slow like that... . ._. that video is like a cake; and ya'all know that cake is a lie!

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Originally Posted by Tahlia

FFXI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s7WQCzPGEE

FFXIV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRM96Ko2Igs

I can be like the OP too...

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exactly what i mean. now wait til 3 years from now and get a xiv video and compare it to that xi video and you really can be like the op.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

Or a comparative of how you had a role/purpose in 11 while this system is an utter joke?

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I think this is definitely what this thread is/should be about.

EDIT: Lmao I was thinking that comparing Alpha Battle System in XIV to FFXI Battle System is like comparing how smart a baby is to a 20-year-old college student. :P

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Originally Posted by Nuru

I think this is definitely what this thread is/should be about.

EDIT: Lmao I was thinking that comparing Alpha Battle System in XIV to FFXI Battle System is like comparing how smart a baby is to a 20-year-old college student. :P

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Honestly, is it that different? Is the Alpha game all that better than what it is now? A joke is a joke. The punchline is just a tad bit different now.

How can you not get what I'm trying to say? wow.. lol

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Originally Posted by Nuru

How can you not get what I'm trying to say? wow.. lol

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Protip: People get it but it kills their argument/stance/counterargument so they dance around it.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

People exaggerate how hard it was to get/make a party in 11 like no one who actually played the game wouldn't notice.

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no it was that bad. When monks couldn't pull high dmg i had a party once maybe twice a mnth and I played everyday. This was @ 55ish way before treasures game out. I had to solo mnk mostly, not fun. ffxi after the first year ( of ps2 us launch) ppl started to only like certain jobs/ combos. Even whm started having tough time getting parties due to rdm or smn/whm being the more popular healers.

They can just go do the endless dancing in other MMOs then. :P

Anyways, I'm amused at how anyone can have the balls to post a thread comparing the battle system of 8+ year-old game to a battle system of a game in Alpha Phase (Non-Retail). I've seen some rather intelligent posts here and there, more so than I thought I would, but when crap like this comes around, I just get the urge to make sense of what the hell is going on here.

Also, I still find it a bit hard to get parties as a Monk 56, but after Abyssea came out, people have been desperate to get a 6-man party to do some Abyssea. I've been invited plenty of times, but how silly of me, to not purchase Abyssea but to know that I can get to lvl 90 within a few days worth of playing.

Might as well add in some micro transactions for Dragon Chronicles so you can sit there and lvl up without fighting anything. Great fun.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

They can just go do the endless dancing in other MMOs then. :P

Anyways, I'm amused at how anyone can have the balls to post a thread comparing the battle system of 8+ year-old game to a battle system of a game in Alpha Phase (Non-Retail). I've seen some rather intelligent posts here and there, more so than I thought I would, but when crap like this comes around, I just get the urge to make sense of what the hell is going on here.

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The game did go to retail and the battle system sucks. What don't you get?

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

The game did go to retail and the battle system sucks. What don't you get?

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Oh wait, yeah i didnt get the fact that the Battle system has DRASTICALLY changed since Alpha. my bad. You win.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Oh wait, yeah i didnt get the fact that the Battle system has DRASTICALLY changed since Alpha. my bad. You win.

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Lol... he said drastically.

What really makes the battle system suck? From how it sounds you're complaining about the amorury system, not the battle system.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

Lol... he said drastically.

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Compare Alpha Battle System to the current battle system and try to find a different word to better describe wtf you are looking at.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Compare Alpha Battle System to the current battle system and try to find a different word to better describe wtf you are looking at.

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What am I looking at? A Hope diamond sized piece of crap (the games battle system) and no matter how much spit-shine you put on it its still a whopping turd. The difference is not "drastic" or whatever word you want to put in there. Is it different? Yeah, sure barely but what does that really have to do with the point or meaning of the OPs intent? It would have been a drastically different system if they listened to what we were screaming in alpha and beta (which I was a part of) but instead they elected to go with the slow-rolling train wreck we're trapped in.

Its utterly baffling to me how anyone can try and defend this in even a quasi kinda way. The people in charge of the game (ad-libing for brevity sake) say the game sucks and is boring. The polls pointed out the populace is clambering for drastic change cause the game sucks (in particular the battle system which is why Yoshi fixated on it) and they don't even charge us because the game sucks. The fact anyone can defend this game in borderline laughable.

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Originally Posted by Blair

See It yourself


This is FFXI:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbBHl...eature=related
(Unless you never played FFXI, the above is a great example of PARTY play)

THis is FFXIV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8KSD...eature=related
(Until lv50, until patch 1.16a, grinding is smiliar to this )


Yeah, FFXI party waiting is definitely worthed it.

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So true, just 100%

How am i even defending it? lol I'm just saying there is a drastic "change/difference." Not a drastic "improvement"

Learn to read before you start defending your own opinions. I was aiming at how the OP can compare a battle system we dont even use anymore to a battle system we've known and loved for over 8 years. Its a no-brainer.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

What am I looking at? A Hope diamond sized piece of crap (the games battle system) and no matter how much spit-shine you put on it its still a whopping turd. The difference is not "drastic" or whatever word you want to put in there. Is it different? Yeah, sure barely but what does that really have to do with the point or meaning of the OPs intent? It would have been a drastically different system if they listened to what we were screaming in alpha and beta (which I was a part of) but instead they elected to go with the slow-rolling train wreck we're trapped in.

Its utterly baffling to me how anyone can try and defend this in even a quasi kinda way. The people in charge of the game (ad-libing for brevity sake) say the game sucks and is boring. The polls pointed out the populace is clambering for drastic change cause the game sucks (in particular the battle system which is why Yoshi fixated on it) and they don't even charge us because the game sucks. The fact anyone can defend this game in borderline laughable.

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I see alot of "this sucks" and "that sucks". What things in the battle system do you not like in particular? I think the pace of the battle is faster than what FFXI had. I consider it less boring too since you pretty much control "when" you're going to attack, etc. and are not just watching your character attack for you.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

How am i even defending it? lol I'm just saying there is a drastic "change/difference." Not a drastic "improvement"

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Semantics. Anyway, its not drastic but thats your opinion. Bizarre as it may be. The OPs ultimate point remains: The system sucks. Whatever footage he put in from then or me playing today it sucks.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Learn to read before you start defending your own opinions. I was aiming at how the OP can compare a battle system we dont even use anymore to a battle system we've known and loved for over 8 years. Its a no-brainer.

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I read just fine. Thank you for my literacy concerns.

The comment was aimed at anyone defending this game still. Again, the battle system itself is not all that different from Alpha to now. Suck is suck. And it is relevant (the comparison) because they had 8 years of data on what works and what doesn't and instead they gave birth to this freakshow that they can't even charge admission for because its that stinking ugly.

According to?

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Originally Posted by Zaene

I agree eww, the battles we have now are RADICALLY DIFFERENT from what was seen in that video, I agree Malakhim. Good point.

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lol no they are not! all they did was speed up the attacks that actually negatively affected the animations. like a MAR now strikes too quickly and the animations cannot keep up so they are inadvertantly cut off between attacks.......

I agree on how FFXIV's current battle system is different from XI's, but that doesn't make it any better than XI's. I'm not saying XI's is better than XIV's either. It depends on who is playing the game and what style they prefer to play it. If there was some sort of Auto Attack Toggle (which would be extremely difficult to implement), that would solve the issue.

My personal tastes deal with more tactics, instead of rushing in and pressing a lot of buttons. I've had a few ideas about a nice Auto Attack battle system that also includes Stamina bars, and actions would work like FFXIII. Weapon skills would be more powerful if you had more bars of stamina stored up. etc.

I think it may be a bit too late to suggest it now though, since they've already decided what they are going to do, it would be pointless to post it. =/