Ending, plot discussion. Warning: Spoilers

They don't. XI and XIV are two different worlds that share similar lore is all.

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Originally Posted by Rex

Clearly this has happened before...


Because...they 12 clearly tried to recreate the Dalamud seal at the end again. They almost reconstructed the moon around Bahamut again.

I'm curious about how it happened the first time, and when.

And what would have happened if they did it again. (Well I guess he would have just gone back into orbit.)

Knowing that XI and XIV take place in the same world, but in greatly distant time eras...and Bahamut threatened to destroy the world in XI...

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Exactly what I was thinking. It has happened before.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

here

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I read that. And reading that just tells me that Bahamut is the dragon's Primal.

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Knowing that XI and XIV take place in the same world, but in greatly distant time eras....

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Huh? Source?

A little theory I'm thinking of at the moment are the 12 do not actually exist. They are merely objects placed at certain positions in certain areas to channel the lands aether (sort of like how Stone Henge and the Pyramids of Giza are on leylines and people think they channel the earth's energy) to seal Bahamut. The Tomb of Xandes (Mor Dhona's twelve) is the trigger for this aether weapon as it is closest to The Crystal Tower and the old Allgan king (possibly the man who designed it and sealed Bahamut the first time?) Maybe the Primals were sealed inside the Crystal Tower so they could not draw out the aether from the land and weaken the aether lines incase Bahamut is released.

From what I gathered the 12 answered the prayers and attempted to reseal Bahamut (This is what Dalamud was in the first place.) however he was too powerful. I guess we can assume that he had to have been fought, worn down and/or severely injured for it to have worked before. So now my big questions are..

1. What kind of being is Bahamut? How is this dude so powerful? Seemingly more than the 12 combined. So much so that he can't even be killed only imprisoned.. and what number of things led to him becoming strong enough to break free now.

2. What is really the true nature of the 12? They may be powerful entities but seemingly not quite as divine as those that worship them believe.

3. Once the 12 fail we are sent forward in time.. where towns are rebuilt and the world isn't a wasteland. It seems all hope was lost and Bahamut was absolutely destroying the world.. so who or what stopped it?

4. What in the hell was Atomos really doing, is it even a free being or more of a device?

They better make a long cutscene explaining what the hell has happened between then and now. I'm so confused >.<

I may be recalling this wrong but I remember something about dalamud being some ancient allag superweapon. This was an early Cid quest for GC. I had assumed it was because giant doom ball/fortress, not giant weapon inside spikey prison. So I assume that Bahamut might be some kind of created hate primal thing. FF has a history of doing that with things (chaos/ship in 9/etc).

Also someone mentioned the imperial walker magitech things- they are like identical to the ones in FF6. Thats obvious but thought id point it out since as an ff6 fanboy i was like WEEEEEE.

Let it be pointed out that Louisoix says himself that we are only using a tiny bit of the dieties strength because using it will be more destructive than what's inside Dalamud.

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Originally Posted by Denmo

I read that. And reading that just tells me that Bahamut is the dragon's Primal.



Huh? Source?

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I'd have to go digging around for it somewhere I don't remember if it was Yoshi or Tanaka that said this. ><

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Originally Posted by Phen

Also someone mentioned the imperial walker magitech things- they are like identical to the ones in FF6. Thats obvious but thought id point it out since as an ff6 fanboy i was like WEEEEEE.

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Me both XD
Well... everything in the end kinda FF6 + FF7 all over.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

I'm not the best at all the lore, but are you sure we went to the future?

...and not the past to prevent this from happening?

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It has previously been revealed that ARR takes place 5 years in the future

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Originally Posted by Destin

They don't. XI and XIV are two different worlds that share similar lore is all.

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I'm pretty sure Yoshi mentioned them being in the same world. I need to find it.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Let it be pointed out that Louisoix says himself that we are only using a tiny bit of the dieties strength because using it will be more destructive than what's inside Dalamud.

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Yah I assume that is a look into the face of god you die kinda thing. Also worth noting- god does not mean invincible/all powerful- think more like greek/norse. Very powerful but if you throw a damn titan at them they start to be worse for the wear.

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Originally Posted by Phen

I may be recalling this wrong but I remember something about dalamud being some ancient allag superweapon. This was an early Cid quest for GC. I had assumed it was because giant doom ball/fortress, not giant weapon inside spikey prison. So I assume that Bahamut might be some kind of created hate primal thing. FF has a history of doing that with things (chaos/ship in 9/etc).

Also someone mentioned the imperial walker magitech things- they are like identical to the ones in FF6. Thats obvious but thought id point it out since as an ff6 fanboy i was like WEEEEEE.

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Exactly this is why I'm coming up with my theory, if it is known that the Allgans sealed Bahamut, which becomes Dalamud so people would forget the fact it's Bahamut and would not try to ressurect him. What would the Allgans, whom were apparently the most advanced race ever to walk Eorzea, need with the 12? Especially since it was their technology that sealed him. They clearly didn't need deities, so what if the 12 are merely the tales passed down about the 12 objects which were used to seal Bahamut.

Primal energy fed to dalamud:
Atomos drains half the world- presumably goes to dalamud or void:
Garleans in dungeons feeding aether up- causes wildlife to go berserk crazy:
Main story hinted at someone riling up beastman to cause them to summon/get killed- more aether:
Midgardsomr incident slams into screws up aether at heart of eorzea- deaspected crystals appear:

so all that is removed from 12 and fed to bahamut- 12 cant beat a dragon aether junkie when hes full on tripping

May be lots of spoilers as far as plots go, I wasn't paying attention the entire time. For the most part these are just theories.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet. Right after Louisoux sends us into the future, when he looks up... I do realise Megaflare is about to own everyone, but the brighter light looks much more blue than it should for fire. At that moment when he smiles I also hear a cluster of noises: A horse whinny, a couple of bestial roars and a loud screech.

This is just theory, but after trying to incite help from the Twelve and the Aethyr in "Living on a Prayer", maybe something happened at that moment. Maybe Odin, Garuda, Titan, Ifrit and Leviathan showed up (I'm just guessing the last three, but the screech sounds very much like Garuda, and I'm pretty sure Odin is the only person to ride a horse in FF lore).

The only reason I say this is that there is a lot of flora, and fauna too I assume, in ARR. If it is set 5 years in the future, something must have saved bits of The Black Shroud -- No trees can grow that big. La Noscea looks as green as ever, and Thanalan has thriving plant life too. Many, many weeds.

Now I'm not saying that all the NPCs will live, as much as I want them to. However, I do think that something happened at that last moment and saved Eorzea from entire desolation.. And hopefully some NPCs. In saying that, I do think there is importance in death, especially in a storyline that ended the way this one did, and would not be surprised if many of the NPCs we know and love will not turn up in 2.0.

On a side note, Urianger was not in the End of an Era vid. Again, not sure about this because I didn't really care about him until too late in the storyline (and wasn't paying attention), but could he be from the future? He dresses strangely compared to other NPCs and has a strange weapon, and while he is very tied in to the Dalamud storyline, and has been from his rambling /shouts at the beginning, we know little of his real motives and less of his background. So could he be from the future, could he have shown Louisoux how to send us there? Or in the very least, will he be there to meet us when we come out? After all, he and Louisoux were the only two who seemed content that Eorzea would be safe as long as we could make it into the future.

I believe the Empire had no clue what they were really unleashing by using Dalamud. Maybe when they did fire it off the first time, Cid learned what was really behind it. That is the real reason why he defected perhaps.

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Originally Posted by Rex

Knowing that XI and XIV take place in the same world, but in greatly distant time eras...and Bahamut threatened to destroy the world in XI...

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Originally Posted by kimoi

They do? I have never heard this.

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I vaguely recall that the cartographer who made the maps for Vanadiel and Eorzea were connected some how. Roddard Ironheart and Gwynham Ironheart? Not proof by any means, but its a possibility. I am curious to know Rex's line of thought regarding this.

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

Exactly this is why I'm coming up with my theory, if it is known that the Allgans sealed Bahamut, which becomes Dalamud so people would forget the fact it's Bahamut and would not try to ressurect him. What would the Allgans, whom were apparently the most advanced race ever to walk Eorzea, need with the 12? Especially since it was their technology that sealed him. They clearly didn't need deities, so what if the 12 are merely the tales passed down about the 12 objects which were used to seal Bahamut.

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Maybe they are the allagans that did it? Crystal warriors past seems to fit the story. Also it fits the motif- the swords and the fact ff7 is yoshi's favorite game it screams knights of the round. So we have these 12 allagans who are now a conscious part of the aether to protect eorzea- they get drained to hell by garleans they cant stop the thing they created long ago.

question well it might seem like a newbie question but i always wondered this, why in other ff games bahamut is a summoned ally but between ff11 and 14 he is protrayed as a enemy?

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Originally Posted by sorahu

question well it might seem like a newbie question but i always wondered this, why in other ff games bahamut is a summoned ally but between ff11 and 14 he is protrayed as a enemy?

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Reasion for that is not to be able to summon him as a player but I've like how SE make's that a reasion why. ^-^

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Originally Posted by sorahu

question well it might seem like a newbie question but i always wondered this, why in other ff games bahamut is a summoned ally but between ff11 and 14 he is protrayed as a enemy?

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He's also an enemy in advent children. Even though it's a movie.

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Originally Posted by Destin

They don't. XI and XIV are two different worlds that share similar lore is all.

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I can't find where I heard this. >< It was lonnggggg long ago. AH! I promise you I heard this somewhere from Square. kljfalkghwlk. I wish I could find it.

it just seems so strange that in previous ff games he seems like one of your stongest summoned allies its weird how SE switches his allegience

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Originally Posted by sorahu

it just seems so strange that in previous ff games he seems like one of your stongest summoned allies its weird how SE switches his allegience

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You always have to fight him before summoning him anyway, don't you? I don't see this as any different.

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Originally Posted by Phen

Maybe they are the allagans that did it? Crystal warriors past seems to fit the story. Also it fits the motif- the swords and the fact ff7 is yoshi's favorite game it screams knights of the round. So we have these 12 allagans who are now a conscious part of the aether to protect eorzea- they get drained to hell by garleans they cant stop the thing they created long ago.

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Could be yeah, The Twelve could easily be named after Warriors of the Allgan Empire who sacrificed themselves to seal Bahamut, but I don't think they are conscious beings and help in anyway in the present. The funny thing is when Bahamut sees the rays of lights and the "swords," he folds his wings in a defensive posture because he knew what was coming.
What gets me though is the Dravnians openly worship Bahamut so somewhere I can't help but think about where their role in all this is.

Noobs didn't even have a full party and were in AF, no wonder they lost.

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Originally Posted by kimoi

How about the giant sword-looking thing that comes out Dalamud? Was that just some sort of lock keeping it in place?

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It's probly a sealing rod used by the Allagan(sp?) Empire to seal him in Dalamud the first time.

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

It's probly a sealing rod used by the Allagan(sp?) Empire to seal him in Dalamud the first time.

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Yeah it's just this. It's what happens when this kind of sealing spell/ritual is used. The seals are manifested as swords and 'lock' into place.

Has anyone notice that Baha & Lou seem to have known each other? Like Baha was going around wiping everything, came back to Lou and they had a "Moment" were they looked at each other as to say, so we meet again!! Then Lou calls the 11 and summons his strength to make 12 to seal Baha again.

I think this fight has been going on for some time.

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Originally Posted by sorahu

question well it might seem like a newbie question but i always wondered this, why in other ff games bahamut is a summoned ally but between ff11 and 14 he is protrayed as a enemy?

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i wouldn't say ally more like forced neutral. bahamut has been known to go from neutral to enemy in many of the FF games.

Yah thats the only thing that doesnt fit with some of the Allagan lore. Allag gets destroyed- think we can guess how now. The naming convention of the 12 makes me think high court. Azemya is literally a warden, Oschon the absentee noble, etc. But what is interesting is for a pantheon of gods- there is no zeus. There isnt a king. The king gone mad with power becomes a force of destruction his vassals seal him allag falls end of an era- rinse repeat~.

The voices in answers make me think they are people of some type, every other FF song had plot details hidden in it.

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Originally Posted by Phen

Yah thats the only thing that doesnt fit with some of the Allagan lore. Allag gets destroyed- think we can guess how now. The naming convention of the 12 makes me think high court. Azemya is literally a warden, Oschon the absentee noble, etc. But what is interesting is for a pantheon of gods- there is no zeus. There isnt a king. The king gone mad with power becomes a force of destruction his vassals seal him allag falls end of an era- rinse repeat~.

The voices in answers make me think they are people of some type, every other FF song had plot details hidden in it.

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I'm not sure if Bahamut destroyed their empire or not, but it'd make sense that at the cost of the empire being destroyed that they sealed Bahamut in the final act. Desperate times call for desperate measures. But I still think it's tied in with The Crystal Tower, Thaliak's 'stone' is associated with Sharlayan(s). Louisoix is suppose to be the reincarnated form of Thaliak, so after all these years of studying he was sent to complete the task before him. Here's a point I brought up in the Shinryu thread:

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Only Archons are said to be The Twelve reincarnated. Louisoix and Urianger being the only Archons. Y'shtola, Yda, Papalymo are only apart of The Circle of Knowing. So if Urianger is away and survives that leaves 11 Archons still alive.
Thancred

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So we still have potential allies, but whether they're on Louisoix's level of compassion and knowledge will remain to be seen.

Everyone keeps asking if the GC leaders lives, it was confirmed ages ago by the community team that they did.

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Originally Posted by Geiger

May be lots of spoilers as far as plots go, I wasn't paying attention the entire time. For the most part these are just theories.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet. Right after Louisoux sends us into the future, when he looks up... I do realise Megaflare is about to own everyone, but the brighter light looks much more blue than it should for fire. At that moment when he smiles I also hear a cluster of noises: A horse whinny, a couple of bestial roars and a loud screech.

This is just theory, but after trying to incite help from the Twelve and the Aethyr in "Living on a Prayer", maybe something happened at that moment. Maybe Odin, Garuda, Titan, Ifrit and Leviathan showed up (I'm just guessing the last three, but the screech sounds very much like Garuda, and I'm pretty sure Odin is the only person to ride a horse in FF lore).

The only reason I say this is that there is a lot of flora, and fauna too I assume, in ARR. If it is set 5 years in the future, something must have saved bits of The Black Shroud -- No trees can grow that big. La Noscea looks as green as ever, and Thanalan has thriving plant life too. Many, many weeds.

Now I'm not saying that all the NPCs will live, as much as I want them to. However, I do think that something happened at that last moment and saved Eorzea from entire desolation.. And hopefully some NPCs. In saying that, I do think there is importance in death, especially in a storyline that ended the way this one did, and would not be surprised if many of the NPCs we know and love will not turn up in 2.0.

On a side note, Urianger was not in the End of an Era vid. Again, not sure about this because I didn't really care about him until too late in the storyline (and wasn't paying attention), but could he be from the future? He dresses strangely compared to other NPCs and has a strange weapon, and while he is very tied in to the Dalamud storyline, and has been from his rambling /shouts at the beginning, we know little of his real motives and less of his background. So could he be from the future, could he have shown Louisoux how to send us there? Or in the very least, will he be there to meet us when we come out? After all, he and Louisoux were the only two who seemed content that Eorzea would be safe as long as we could make it into the future.

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Yes i agree and it would also put the poster that was behind the devs in the live letter into context. It has Bahamut and the other primals on it.

What Happened?
Darnus uses the ancient spell "Meteor" to bring down Dalamud, but no one can imagine that Dalamud was the prison of the king of the dragon, Bahamut.
Like Garuda said during the quest In for garuda wakening, Primals absorbs aether and crystal power...
So when we defeated Garuda, Ifrit and even Darnus, Dalamud was enough close to us for absorb their powers... This made Bahamut more strong...
And when the first key of god falls from Dalamud... the power of Twelve no more sufficient for keep bahamut in the prison..
And how we can see in last Cutscene, we can see Bahamut Power destroy the prison and get free finally, after years of prisoning.

So the Archons, Thancred and the others, tried to imprison again Bahamut praying for the Twelve.. And Louisoix cast the Imprisoning spell... But the power of bahamut is too powerful now..

Bahamut casts Giga-Flare... But Louisoix with last power of Althyk (God of Time and Space) teleport (all?) us 5 years in the future..



Now i've some doubt....


1. If We raise the power of Bahamut killing Primals and Darnus, why Louisoix asked to kill them?
2. Why Thancred and the others, even Louisoix, didn't tell us that Dalamud was only a prison for Bahamut?
3. Why Bahamut is different from other Primals? Why He try to destroy all?
4. How could Louisoix use the power (signet) of Althyk? He wasn't the Archon of Thaliak?

Im just gonna throw this, if this havent brought to topic

Do you all think that this ending has been planned since the beginning?

What do you mean by the beginning?

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Originally Posted by rina_inverse

Im just gonna throw this, if this havent brought to topic

Do you all think that this ending has been planned since the beginning?

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No. After the shitstorm Tanaka created with 1.0, and the shift towards a new game build, they basically put all the current stories on hold so that they could bring out the Darnus/Dalamud summoning.

A lot of the early quests (most noteably the class quests) have plots that weren't really resolved that looked like they might be wrapped up in future quests, but it all got put on hold for the introduction of Grand Companies/7th umbral era storyline.

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Do you all think that this ending has been planned since the beginning?

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I have been wondering too and my guess is that indeed it has been planned from the very beginning of FFXIV.