Area of Effect: Display Markers

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

No keep that shit away, tired of people and there hold my hand syndrom. Knowing the radius of your AoE skills is part of being proficient at your Class & Job. if you cant figure out after hours of playing White mage and Black Mage where your AoE's Falloff then you suck, just plain and simple.

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Should also remove the hp and mp bars because if you dont know where your hp is at you also suck. Oh and cooldown counters? Get rid of them, in fact get rid of the whole skill bar - all the better.


Being facetious because you said anybody that wants an aoe UI sucks.

expert mode ftw lol

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Should also remove the hp and mp bars because if you dont know where your hp is at you also suck. Oh and cooldown counters? Get rid of them, in fact get rid of the whole skill bar - all the better.


Being facetious because you said anybody that wants a UI sucks.

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now your just being stupid.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

now your just being stupid.

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As I believe you are for posting just this.

UI is designed to help us, all the OP wants is a feature to better manage their skill - a skilled player can play better with this. It doesnt turn the game into easy mode - it allows game play to require higher skill because it is better learn able and therefore better expected.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

As I believe you are for posting just this.

UI is designed to help us, all the OP wants is a feature to better manage their skill - a skilled player can play better with this. It doesnt turn the game into easy mode - it allows game play to require higher skill because it is better learn able and therefore better expected.

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the OP want spoon fed where his AoE is going to land. something you can do right now with enough skill and practice in your class therefor skilled player doesn't need this.

Wants wanted is clear no Learning Curve at all and im 100% against this.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Should also remove the hp and mp bars because if you dont know where your hp is at you also suck. Oh and cooldown counters? Get rid of them, in fact get rid of the whole skill bar - all the better.


Being facetious because you said anybody that wants an aoe UI sucks.

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I hate to jump to Valmonte's defense, especially given his post was entirely negative and not in the least constructive; but there is a bit of personal preference to be noted here. Pride is a strong motivator, and being able to just barely clip that group when a less experienced BLM could not have is extremely satisfying. On the other hand, having to just guess how wounded you are is purely frustrating.

A better comparison would be between this and the Enmity meter. Both are replacements for the player's judgment ability when accomplishing their job, while not strictly being associated with life or death. Personally, I prefer leaving it up to the player to learn by experience, rather than explicitly shown to them. On the other hand, as I have noted previously, I don't think having these helping hands is a game breaking utility.

This is getting a little into the darker side of MMO psychology, but the more attached to a character players are, the more likely they are to continue playing. Collecting valuable items is one part, but pride in skills learned is an equally strong component, and should not be so easily dismissed.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

the OP want spoon fed where his AoE is going to land. something you can do right now with enough skill and practice in your class

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It is also possible to calculate all the damage done and mp spent, and remember the cooldown timers. Is that being spoon fed? I believe whatever you want to call it "spoon fed" it doesnt matter because it is already in the game - you should be playing another game as the spoon feeding will not end.

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Originally Posted by Hulan

I hate to jump to Valmonte's defense, especially given his post was entirely negative and not in the least constructive; but there is a bit of personal preference to be noted here. Pride is a strong motivator, and being able to just barely clip that group when a less experienced BLM could not have is extremely satisfying. On the other hand, having to just guess how wounded you are is purely frustrating.

A better comparison would be between this and the Enmity meter. Both are replacements for the player's judgment ability when accomplishing their job, while not strictly being associated with life or death. Personally, I prefer leaving it up to the player to learn by experience, rather than explicitly shown to them. On the other hand, as I have noted previously, I don't think having these helping hands is a game breaking utility.

This is getting a little into the darker side of MMO psychology, but the more attached to a character players are, the more likely they are to continue playing. Collecting valuable items is one part, but pride in skills learned is an equally strong component, and should not be so easily dismissed.

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I agree to a point. We should avoid addons which tell you "when" to do something, that's pretty much telling you how to play.

Having a targeting assist for AOE spells opens up lots of other benefits, such as ground cast AOE (pre-casting an AOE to hit a moving target) or putting magic effects down (barriers, setting an area on fire etc.)

Edit: And fluff wise, wouldn't a mage capable of summoning giant fireballs be able to control how large of an effect he/she wants? :P

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Originally Posted by Shougun

It is also possible to calculate all the damage done and mp spent, and remember the cooldown timers. Is that being spoon fed? I believe whatever you want to call it "spoon fed" it doesnt matter because it is already in the game - you should be playing another game as the spoon feeding will not end.

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What I'm arguing and what your arguing are two different things, MP HP all that shit is in a constant Flux its ok to be able to review that information, its not ok For Spoonfeed Me to come and have to learn absolutely nothing about the game because he's being told exactly what do do. thats what i don't want.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

What I'm arguing and what your arguing are two different things, MP HP all that shit is in a constant Flux its ok to be able to review that information, its not ok For Spoonfeed Me to come and have to learn absolutely nothing about the game because he's being told exactly what do do. thats what i don't want.

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At no point does the aoe circle say when to cast. It does not tell you when to do anything.

EXACTLY like hp mp and cooldown timers (being visible timers I mean). You may not like aoe circles but saying their spoon feeding you information opens your argument up for ridicule - as under similar situations is also many other pieces of information.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

At no point does the aoe circle say when to cast. It does not tell you when to do anything.

EXACTLY like hp mp and cooldown timers (being visible timers I mean). You may not like aoe circles but saying their spoon feeding you information opens your argument up for ridicule - as under similar situations is also many other pieces of information.

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It tells you when to cast that AoE when the unwanted mobs are out of the circle.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

It tells you when to cast that AoE when the unwanted mobs are out of the circle.

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If you consider that telling you when to do something then take this example:

Casting blizzara - 200 mp, 10 second cooldown.

Your mp is telling you how many/how many more blizzaras you can cast now
Your cooldown timer is telling you when to cast it again

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Originally Posted by Shougun

If you consider that telling you when to do something then take this example:

Casting blizzara - 200 mp, 10 second cooldown.

Your mp is telling you how many/how many more blizzaras you can cast now
Your cooldown timer is telling you when to cast it again

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you list a game mechanic as your defense, against Skillful manipulation of ability's being striped away. Whatever it takes to be right on a forum.

You want it. i dont.
end topic.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

you list a game mechanic as your defense, against Skillful manipulation of ability's being striped away. Whatever it takes to be right on a forum.

You want it. i dont.
end topic.

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Either way there is skill opportunities, not just the invisible way.

(I dont disagree that knowing the invisible areas is a skill - but on the flip side there are also new tactics to consider for both player and developer designs when you can see/place aoes)

I vaguely recall an official response stating that magic glyphs would appear when casting spells to show the range of the spell, however, I've not seen it in any recent media or heard about it since.

I hope this concept wasn't dropped as it sounded really cool and helpful.

I appreciate the effort and thought you put into this not just by proposing the idea, even in the face of an uncertain UI/spell structure in ARR but because of the graphics overlay to help convey your thoughts.

Please Twelve yes. Never used to have trouble targeting AoEs in XI - especially not with distance plugin >> - but I do with FFXIV something fierce.

I'd also love to see some AOE markers to see where our moves are going to land.

While they're at it, they also need to make it to where we can cast AOE spells without requiring a specific target. I've encountered many times where, in parties with a lot of BLM's, we need to nuke a bunch of enemies quickly, and the enemy I'm targeting ends up dying first before I can get my spell off to hit all the other enemies, and the spell ends up fizzling and I have to start casting all over again... it's SOOO STUPID. Moves like Flare, Holy, Blizzara... hell, even Steel Cyclone let you use them without requiring a target; why not all the other AOE moves?

Finally, they need to bring back the toggle AOE function, I missed that. What if we end up having to fight a bunch of monsters that can absorb fire and ice damage? Sure would be nice to AOE Thunder them instead somehow...

The spells and WS you listed are AoE centering around you. Fire/Fira etc are spells targeting an enemy.

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Finally, they need to bring back the toggle AOE function, I missed that. What if we end up having to fight a bunch of monsters that can absorb fire and ice damage?

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In SE's quest to make this a generic MMO, you won't ever have to worry about this lol, especially since they did it in FFXI and we know how well XI concepts fly around these parts.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

The spells and WS you listed are AoE centering around you. Fire/Fira etc are spells targeting an enemy.

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I don't see why that should make a difference. Moves like Fire, Fira, etc. and moves like Flare and Holy are still both hostile actions. Similarly, moves like PLD's Rampart and WHM's Protect should also get the same treatment. Whether you're targeting something specific or hitting things surrounding you shouldn't matter.

I should be able to mouse over a patch of dirt in Thanalan where there's a bunch of Coblyns and see a big circle where I can accurately place my AOE spell to nuke the crap out of ALL of them without specifically centering it on a specific one and possibly leaving another one or two of them out of range.

Similarly, if there's a bunch of mobs chasing us down a hallway, it'd be nice to be able to aim my spell in the middle of the hallway, taking up the entire width of it, and with some skill, time it just right so that it goes off right when the mobs run over it, instead of constantly seeing that annoying "The target is out of range" message over and over as they close in.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

How would you do this with instant cast spells/abilities? You push the button and the skill goes off so you can't really confirm the radius before using it.

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Holding the button brings up the AOE target, releasing it casts the spell.

If you have enough time to consider radius, you have enough time to hold the button.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Holding the button brings up the AOE target, releasing it casts the spell.

If you have enough time to consider radius, you have enough time to hold the button.

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That, or, if it's a move that hits everything surrounding you (like Blizzara), you could just hover your cursor/mouse over the spell's icon, and the AOE ring would show up then before you actually set it off. I've seen League of Legends do it that way for certain moves.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

the OP want spoon fed where his AoE is going to land. something you can do right now with enough skill and practice in your class therefor skilled player doesn't need this.

Wants wanted is clear no Learning Curve at all and im 100% against this.

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Who do you think I am? I'm in no way a bad mage so please stop that just because I want a user friendly UI to keep the learning curve low doesn't mean I'm a bad player who wants to be fed everything.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

The spells and WS you listed are AoE centering around you. Fire/Fira etc are spells targeting an enemy.



In SE's quest to make this a generic MMO, you won't ever have to worry about this lol, especially since they did it in FFXI and we know how well XI concepts fly around these parts.

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Would be fun to see the toggle button come back with aoe targeting. Like in FF9 (I think?) you could make any spell aoe - awesome XD.

This is a good suggestion and while we're at it, can we have it so that Blizzara does not actually go off if there are no enemies in range just like other spells are cancelled when the target dies.

SWTOR has AOE marker. It should be able to implement here.

OMG why not just have an auto cure button as well? sod it make a bot that will play the game for us.. i have been WHM main since FFXI and never had any trouble healing. if the party wont listen to, /p <Gather together> for buffs, then it their fault if they die imo

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Originally Posted by Kurai

OMG why not just have an auto cure button as well?

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There is. It's called Second Wind. :p

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Originally Posted by Kurai

if the party wont listen to, /p <Gather together> for buffs, then it their fault if they die imo

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It's cool, I hate it when people run from buffs/cures as well. Makes me wish they still let us cast while running (especially in places like Dzaemel Darkhold where you need to keep the tank healed as you're running behind them and dodging the floating eyes' attacks), although I've heard rumors of SE bringing it back for ARR.

Still, having some icons of some sort to show the range of your spells would be helpful, in my opinion.

I would like a range indicator too so i know how far away from the boss i am i dont die his aoe.

If they implement this it could least be used as a workaround for not having a range indicator.

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Originally Posted by Kurai

OMG why not just have an auto cure button as well? sod it make a bot that will play the game for us.. i have been WHM main since FFXI and never had any trouble healing. if the party wont listen to, /p <Gather together> for buffs, then it their fault if they die imo

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FFXI is and old type of mmo amazing for its time but that has nothing to do with UI enhancements for ease of play this wont cast the AE for you it will just show how far it will hit. So why mention a autocure button?

I strongly agree with OP. Having range circles/cones displayed is something that I've wanted ever since Beta of 1.0. However, it never came.
As it was mentioned before, for instant skills/spells, simply hovering over the skill icon should display the range circle/cone.

As for hardcore players that "dislike being spoon-fed", simply turn it off in the config menu as it would need to be a client-side visual aid.

One more thing, the spells and skills, as it was mentioned, should definitely be displayed as wide half-spheres like we see in the videos. A simply copy-paste of the individual animation in front of everyone is probably the lamest AoE skill/spell effect I've ever seen. Especially in an MMO, visual is extremely important this should be part of it.

The devs are doing a great job and I hope Yoshi-P & cie have thought of it already and it is in motion of becoming reality. ^^

would be good if this was also visible by party members so they know to get inside of a certain area for a buff.

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Originally Posted by Galliano

would be good if this was also visible by party members so they know to get inside of a certain area for a buff.

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that would be terrible.

I hate when they easy-mode crap in MMOs and I don't see how this is spoon feeding. A character that knows how to cast a spell should know how big the spell is. Simple as that. If they don't want to add AOE makers they should at least put the Radius on the tool tip.

Personally, I want the markers because i think the rune idea in the OP would look wicked cool.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

I hate when they easy-mode crap in MMOs and I don't see how this is spoon feeding. A character that knows how to cast a spell should know how big the spell is. Simple as that. If they don't want to add AOE makers they should at least put the Radius on the tool tip.

Personally, I want the markers because i think the rune idea in the OP would look wicked cool.

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I like this :P

I really like that idea that everyone seems to be bringing up making these ae markers visible to party members but if that is the case it should ONLY be visible to Party / Raid members in case it causes small hang ups.

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Originally Posted by Nakiamiie

I strongly agree with OP. Having range circles/cones displayed is something that I've wanted ever since Beta of 1.0. However, it never came.
As it was mentioned before, for instant skills/spells, simply hovering over the skill icon should display the range circle/cone.

As for hardcore players that "dislike being spoon-fed", simply turn it off in the config menu as it would need to be a client-side visual aid.

One more thing, the spells and skills, as it was mentioned, should definitely be displayed as wide half-spheres like we see in the videos. A simply copy-paste of the individual animation in front of everyone is probably the lamest AoE skill/spell effect I've ever seen. Especially in an MMO, visual is extremely important this should be part of it.

The devs are doing a great job and I hope Yoshi-P & cie have thought of it already and it is in motion of becoming reality. ^^

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thank you :D

I think if they updated the spell effects to indicate the area over which the AoE has an effect, then that would suffice, and an AoE indicator would not be necessary.

The stupid thing in 1.0, and probably 2.0, is that when you cast something, the animation effect only activates on the mob you attack. So you cannot even really practice gauging the range from casting it and observing the distance. You can't cast Firaga and see the range. If they changed this (where for example the Firaga animation effect would extend in a circle around the targeted mob representing its area of effect), then it would make learning your AoE range a much more organic process, and negate the need for the aoe indicator.

I mean, if you watch this video, you can clearly see an indication of the AoE. Learning the distance for each spell would then become a natural process, and a display marker would become somewhat redundant. In FFXIV, you can't really learn the AoE distances, because there's no visual display for most of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SheR...mbedded#t=176s

Happy Friday everyone!

In A Realm Reborn we will be implementing a system for raid dungeon bosses and other big baddies where an AoE range display will be shown as they are charging up to perform their attacks, and after a couple of seconds everything in range will be hit (hint: MOVE!). Similar to the suggestions in this thread, it is very possible to have the same kind of system for players in the future, so the development team will keep this in mind.

As an aside, in A Realm Reborn the buffing range is extremely wide and has been set to 40m, so if you are in a dungeon you will be able to cast the spells on all party members easily, so no more players getting out of range of Stoneskin and other enhancements :p

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Originally Posted by Camate

Happy Friday everyone!

In A Realm Reborn we will be implementing a system for raid dungeon bosses and other big baddies where an AoE range display will be shown as they are charging up to perform their attacks, and after a couple of seconds everything in range will be hit (hint: MOVE!). Similar to the suggestions in this thread, it is very possible to have the same kind of system for players in the future, so the development team will keep this in mind.

As an aside, in A Realm Reborn the buffing range is extremely wide and has been set to 40m, so if you are in a dungeon you will be able to cast the spells on all party members easily, so no more players getting out of range of Stoneskin and other enhancements :p

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Yay, thanks Camate! :D