So, when is VPR getting nerfs? (Frontline)

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

You know you can see what jobs the enemy team are, right?

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Hi random person, the title of the post was (Frontline) and the message i replied to was "why do people attack the nearest target?"

Yup, in the blink of an eye with my incredible photographic memory i take a mental snapshot of the 50 enemy players and the 3 by 3 pixel sized icon next to their name since the anyone can wear anything update, and then i keep a mental log of every single players name and role, so that when i stop dead in my tracks to use my left thumb on the left d-pad to cycle through the 50 enemies left to right or right to left, i can target that 1 healer in the middle backline out of range for all my abilities while i mockingly laugh very loudly at all my noob teammates shooting the stunlocked viper. Must be bring your bronze rank bestie to work day am i right?

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Originally Posted by UseYour

Hi random person, the title of the post was (Frontline) and the message i replied to was "why do people attack the nearest target?"

Yup, in the blink of an eye with my incredible photographic memory i take a mental snapshot of the 50 enemy players and the 3 by 3 pixel sized icon next to their name since the anyone can wear anything update, and then i keep a mental log of every single players name and role, so that when i stop dead in my tracks to use my left thumb on the left d-pad to cycle through the 50 enemies left to right or right to left, i can target that 1 healer in the middle backline out of range for all my abilities while i mockingly laugh very loudly at all my noob teammates shooting the stunlocked viper. Must be bring your bronze rank bestie to work day am i right?

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Hello random person,

It seems like you could benefit from a refresher on how to properly use your controller targeting in FF14
Here’s a guide that might help you get started:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZzEJA6ej8A

lets all agree going against a viper is about as fun as going against a daredevil or blade in rivals. They get too much value for an incredibly low skill ceiling. Their skill ceiling is pressing the OMNISKILL button when they expect to be hit, while every other class uses purify/guard in that scenario making them vulnerable to diving. They have glass cannon damage numbers with the self sustain of the best brawler tanks plus they still have the default survival defense options on top of all that afterwards meaning they can just buttonmash a rotation you would expect only a raid boss to have access to.

Some melee dps get to dive into a 1v50 and win, some melee dps get stunlocked and die in a 1v3. And its not like the 1v50 class is out of their element in smallscale either.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Hello random person,

It seems like you could benefit from a refresher on how to properly use your controller targeting in FF14
Here’s a guide that might help you get started:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZzEJA6ej8A

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Say the video name and uploader i dont trust you. The link literally has aZz in it, i can spot a rickroll from 40 yards in a dust storm.

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Originally Posted by UseYour

Say the video name and uploader i dont trust you. The link literally has aZz in it, i can spot a rickroll from 40 yards in a dust storm.

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I’m not babysitting a random poster with a mocking attitude who’s making baseless claims.
If you actually want to learn how to use controller targeting in FF14, search YouTube yourself
You clearly need help understanding it.

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Originally Posted by UseYour

Say the video name and uploader i dont trust you. The link literally has aZz in it, i can spot a rickroll from 40 yards in a dust storm.

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Mmmh. Maybe bookmark this one: https://youtubetoolkit.com/tools/link-viewer

Or is that a bit too 3rd party tool? Apart from a questionable fashion sense, looks pretty legit to me from the thumbnail.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

I’m not babysitting a random poster with a mocking attitude who’s making baseless claims.
If you actually want to learn how to use controller targeting in FF14, search YouTube yourself
You clearly need help understanding it.

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Fun fact: I know how to use controller targeting. Theres entire forums of people who run ultimates and high rank pvp with controller and you know what everyone agrees on? Its really bad. For example, to PvP i have to turn the auto run function off because left bumper is keybound to autorun and also target select in my raid menu. I also have to swap my command menu button, jump and select because if i use right/left trigger + X to use an ability on a "closest target" that i did not fully lock on to with an extra A click, it will open a menu trying to trade follow or inspect that enemy ignoring trigger inputs only receiving X input.

I can target either using the center of my screen with A, i can target cycle, or i can use an ability near someone and hope it targets the guy 2 feet away in front of me with 1 hp, but for some reason unless im locked on it will meteodrive a full hp guy not even on my screen. Its really bad. My limited crossbar has room for 1 of every pvp skill, a mark target/callout macro, and a mount/sprint. Yes i am aware i can move my screen to have a target on the left or right edge and then cycle from left or right but in a team of 20 it might save 5 clicks while losing FOV of half the battle to target cycle.

Now tell me you dont care and prove your youtube link was to insult and not help anyone :)

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Originally Posted by ThreeBeastSmile

questionable fashion sense

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The gnath would like to know your location.

lol you can whine all you like. i play on controller too. its not that hard. "track who is healing" every player roll is clearly indicated. you can focus target people. you can use in-game macro to target your focus to quickly get back to them. hell, you could set up a macro to LB your focus target, so you dont even need to target them first. the tools are there.

as for viper. it's problematic in FL but, if people would get off ranged and start fighting melee with melee. monk gets 50% damage reduction in FL. earth's reply for quick healing. you can wind's reply vipers (and dancers. and dark knights) who are running in. you can LB them to disrupt. its not impossible

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Originally Posted by UseYour

Fun fact: I know how to use controller targeting. Theres entire forums of people who run ultimates and high rank pvp with controller and you know what everyone agrees on? Its really bad. For example, to PvP i have to turn the auto run function off because left bumper is keybound to autorun and also target select in my raid menu. I also have to swap my command menu button, jump and select because if i use right/left trigger + X to use an ability on a "closest target" that i did not fully lock on to with an extra A click, it will open a menu trying to trade follow or inspect that enemy ignoring trigger inputs only receiving X input.

I can target either using the center of my screen with A, i can target cycle, or i can use an ability near someone and hope it targets the guy 2 feet away in front of me with 1 hp, but for some reason unless im locked on it will meteodrive a full hp guy not even on my screen. Its really bad. My limited crossbar has room for 1 of every pvp skill, a mark target/callout macro, and a mount/sprint. Yes i am aware i can move my screen to have a target on the left or right edge and then cycle from left or right but in a team of 20 it might save 5 clicks while losing FOV of half the battle to target cycle.

Now tell me you dont care and prove your youtube link was to insult and not help anyone :)

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Is this discussion about PvE Ultimate or PvP CC?
Regardless, your struggles with controller targeting do not support your wild claim that every PC player is using addons.
I use a controller on both PC and PS5, and I do not have the targeting problems you described.

Also, I am not here to babysit random posters throwing around mockery and sarcasm.
Learn how to ask for help properly first.
Yes, I am repeating it three times because it is clearly important:

Learn how to ask for help properly first.
Learn how to ask for help properly first.
Learn how to ask for help properly first.

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

lol you can whine all you like. i play on controller too. its not that hard. "track who is healing" every player roll is clearly indicated. you can focus target people. you can use in-game macro to target your focus to quickly get back to them. hell, you could set up a macro to LB your focus target, so you dont even need to target them first. the tools are there.

as for viper. it's problematic in FL but, if people would get off ranged and start fighting melee with melee. monk gets 50% damage reduction in FL. earth's reply for quick healing. you can wind's reply vipers (and dancers. and dark knights) who are running in. you can LB them to disrupt. its not impossible

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You play on controller but have punctuation and spellcheck turned off to make that many errors? So you must actually be on PC typing this on keyboard manually, while telling me to use a dozen different macros in a poorly designed console port that has nowhere near the same level of customization freedom or addons and UI changes a pc user with optional use controller experiences? I already have 3 different full crossbars memorized for pve monk, a 4th for pvp, now your professional opinion is to memorize another dozen macros just for target swapping and LBing people? I already got 50+ keybinds memorized through multiple button combination inputs and thats still not enough yet huh. When does the FF14 dev team step in and fix their convoluted mess so we can target things intuitively and not rely on macros and more crossbar clutter? Id love to play a 2 button class like you. Ungabunga warrior main teach me how play smart

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

as for viper. it's problematic in FL but, if people would get off ranged and start fighting melee with melee. monk gets 50% damage reduction in FL. earth's reply for quick healing. you can wind's reply vipers (and dancers. and dark knights) who are running in. you can LB them to disrupt. its not impossible

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Yes, I agreed.
We have to admit that Patch 7.5 Viper did attract a bunch of mediocre players away from ranged jobs.

Are multiple Vipers going to become a serious threat?
Unlikely. Viper mostly preys on ranged players who are not paying attention.
Against other melee jobs, they are a meme at best.

In recent Frontline matches, whenever Vipers run into alliances stacked with melee players, their performance drops off hard.
At the very least, this change may push people off ranged jobs and onto melee jobs, where they can start learning attack timing, target selection, and how to properly secure kills.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Yes, I agreed.
We have to admit that Patch 7.5 Viper did attract a bunch of mediocre players away from ranged jobs.

Are multiple Vipers going to become a serious threat?
Unlikely. Viper mostly preys on ranged players who are not paying attention.
Against other melee jobs, they are a meme at best.

In recent Frontline matches, whenever Vipers run into alliances stacked with melee players, their performance drops off hard.
At the very least, this change may push people off ranged jobs and onto melee jobs, where they can start learning attack timing, target selection, and how to properly secure kills.

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Absolutely. The avg viper isnt that much of a threat. But it is a bit more problematic with people who do know how to play the job. But, honestly, that same could be said about any job lol

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Originally Posted by UseYour

You play on controller but have punctuation and spellcheck turned off to make that many errors? So you must actually be on PC typing this on keyboard manually, while telling me to use a dozen different macros in a poorly designed console port that has nowhere near the same level of customization freedom or addons and UI changes a pc user with optional use controller experiences? I already have 3 different full crossbars memorized for pve monk, a 4th for pvp, now your professional opinion is to memorize another dozen macros just for target swapping and LBing people? I already got 50+ keybinds memorized through multiple button combination inputs and thats still not enough yet huh. When does the FF14 dev team step in and fix their convoluted mess so we can target things intuitively and not rely on macros and more crossbar clutter? Id love to play a 2 button class like you. Ungabunga warrior main teach me how play smart

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PVE monk has something like 21-24 actions to assign to hotbar. Plus another 6 role actions. With sprint and LB, that's what, 29-32 actions. Not that dissimilar to any other job.

PVP monk has 7 actions to assign, plus role action, plus standard PVP actions, plus LB - 12 actions

Why do you need to memorize 50+ keybinds for pvp?

Stop blaming your own inadequacies on the game

And no, I'm not a warrior main anymore. But you keep being you.

The viper can get domed in half a second by an enemy alliance's phys ranged before they can even press snake scales, so how is one viper putting up a strong performance in spite of that grounds for nerfing it?

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

Stop blaming your own inadequacies on the game

And no, I'm not a warrior main anymore. But you keep being you.

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My PvP hotbar has 15 buttons on it actually, and only 1 macro which highlights my target. You want to compare averages? Saying all jobs are equal? My burst rotation opener - we are not including limit break, execute, my phantom rush build up, CC breaks, sprinting back into position etc. Just the buttons i have to use to walk into a team fight and use every 15 seconds to not get called a feeder or afker: 10 inputs in 6 seconds, where i have to watch my own animations to cancel them with other animations because just clicking buttons whenever i want dont work. The server delay will cancel me midcombo if im a millisecond off not casting anything making all my empowers or positioning out of place, or if i do follow up with LB/execute the person is half hp instead of 0 hp.

Since you love doing deep dives into my life calling me inadequate while im over here playing guitar hero on expert mode with my xbox controller double inputs, that put put "engine that could" lil brain of yours is out here strugglin with Fireball I > Fireball II > Empowered Flare for 50k AoE. Why are you so quick to call out others while lying about the peripherals you use and giving out terrible advice to someone without 3rd party addons access? I bet you got a giant flashing count down on your screen with audio alerts telling you which button is next in your rotation. And i know that stuff is true because ive done mythic WoW raids with people who use addons and they got so much hand holding on their UI they cant even see the fire they stand in so they use an addon to tell em GTFO THE FIRE too. You pc gamers are a joke and you taking FF14 seriously is like an adult taking roblox seriously. You have no idea how watered down FF14 content is in the big wide world of MMOs but you love to wear the guise of an elitist pro. A top 100 FF14 pvper has the mechanical skill of a hardstuck silver in any other competive game. Seriously, where do you think your extensive knowledge of 2 second GCD tab target macro mashing wall peeks transfer over to? Youd get rolled by the first kid in league of legends that has enough mechanical skill to manually click your character before mashing ADAD1212ADAD1212 thats all you are, a LoL kid without the basic mouse aim. Catch a hint and get some humility.

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

The avg viper isnt that much of a threat. But it is a bit more problematic with people who do know how to play the job. But, honestly, that same could be said about any job lol

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I've probably had more problems with getting precision silence sniped the second I am in range of any of the 20 billion bards than I've ever had with a viper.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

I've probably had more problems with getting precision silence sniped the second I am in range of any of the 20 billion bards than I've ever had with a viper.

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Lots of script kiddies using bards because they're both trash at the game and bard has one of the lowest skill floor of any job in PvP.

Easy to see at the start of a match before any player is even capable to focus target, or have any reason to when any dash ability used within their cast range will trigger their script to use silence/knockback if ready.

Keep an eye on them the rest of the match and you'll see that every time they use their CC, it is usually within 0.1 seconds of any dash ability.

I don't think nerfing Viper will do anything, they should just change the mode so you cannot premade anymore like in ranked CC.
Then it would be completly random and more fun for casuals.
I still do not get it why Frontline was not like that from the beginning, where you cannot queue with a premade party and you only get random teammates.

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Originally Posted by Hazelx3

I don't think nerfing Viper will do anything, they should just change the mode so you cannot premade anymore like in ranked CC.
Then it would be completly random and more fun for casuals.
I still do not get it why Frontline was not like that from the beginning, where you cannot queue with a premade party and you only get random teammates.

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Yea, right?? Who wants to party up and play with FC members or their friends in pvp?! in an MMO?!?? That's so lame.

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Originally Posted by Hazelx3

I don't think nerfing Viper will do anything, they should just change the mode so you cannot premade anymore like in ranked CC.
Then it would be completly random and more fun for casuals.
I still do not get it why Frontline was not like that from the beginning, where you cannot queue with a premade party and you only get random teammates.

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What if… just what if… you actually found people to play Frontline with?
You know… like what an MMO is supposed to be?
I keep seeing people act like there’s some invisible force preventing them from making a party if they truly believe premades are such an overwhelming advantage.

• Party Finder exists.
• Friends lists exist.
• Free Companies exist.
• Linkshells exist.

If you think coordinated groups are strong, then coordinate too.
There’s always a way.
Even something as simple as a target countdown macro already improves coordination more than most random groups ever attempt.
That’s not exploiting the game.
That’s literally participating in the social aspect of an MMO.

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

Yea, right?? Who wants to party up and play with FC members or their friends in pvp?! in an MMO?!?? That's so lame.

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You can't go premade in ranked CC either and in unranked you can only queue up as a 2-people team, so it would make sense to me that the other modes handle it the same,
and the problem with "this premade team is too OP" wouldn't exist. You can't expect from someone who starts the game, looks for many friends to play Frontline with, most do it for the daily quest like me and in the end, its a story based game, that you mostly can play solo. Altough there is one downside to random parties, that it can be very frustrating if you get in the wrong teams, similar to ranked CC in low ranks, you will always get some people who have no clue what they're doing. I do not take these PvP modes serious, if it was serious PvP then it would be a 2v2 match where you can choose your teampartner, but not a PvP with more than 4 people or even more than 100, that's pure Chaos. Most people that I know in this game do not enjoy PvP, they are pure PvE players for a reason

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Originally Posted by Hazelx3

You can't go premade in ranked CC either and in unranked you can only queue up as a 2-people team, so it would make sense to me that the other modes handle it the same,
and the problem with "this premade team is too OP" wouldn't exist. You can't expect from someone who starts the game, looks for many friends to play Frontline with, most do it for the daily quest like me and in the end, its a story based game, that you mostly can play solo. Altough there is one downside to random parties, that it can be very frustrating if you get in the wrong teams, similar to ranked CC in low ranks, you will always get some people who have no clue what they're doing. I do not take these PvP modes serious, if it was serious PvP then it would be a 2v2 match where you can choose your teampartner, but not a PvP with more than 4 people or even more than 100, that's pure Chaos. Most people that I know in this game do not enjoy PvP, they are pure PvE players for a reason

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I have basically no-one left in here who remotely enjoys PvP in this game either, I still... dare I say it, like it. Sometimes.

Dealing with randoms is just another test in my books, how well can I play to make up for whether or not the rest of the team gels well? If I make the call early enough, that no, no nobody can be relied on (lol), I can still put holes into the enemy. I've got enough practice. Then it's less about what my team is doing and fully committing to reading enemy behaviour instead. It's just a bit of exercise innit. Maybe it's just me. I don't like to roll over easily. It's very difficult to get me doing a vote to surrender in any game. So maybe my threshold is a bit different.

If there were a 2v2 I wouldn't even be able to participate as I don't have a duo partner in this game. Roping in anybody would just be the same as solo queuing.

There's also the matter of how premade modes in MMOs tend to struggle with numbers too, opposed to any solo queues. In here I can't imagine how difficult it'd be to have a premade queue going for the same amount of hours a day as a solo queue.

ED: I guess what I'm saying is, I don't exactly get why so many are acting like quitters when dealing with things alone.

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Originally Posted by ThreeBeastSmile

There's also the matter of how premade modes in MMOs tend to struggle with numbers too, opposed to any solo queues. In here I can't imagine how difficult it'd be to have a premade queue going for the same amount of hours a day as a solo queue.

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This is the biggest issue with suggestions to split premade / veteran and casual queues. It just wouldn't work as there's not enough PvP-regulars to cover queue requirements. While the upcoming cross DC system might help, I'm still doubtful that even that will enable a veteran-only queue, let alone a premade-only queue.

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Dealing with randoms is just another test in my books, how well can I play to make up for whether or not the rest of the team gels well? If I make the call early enough, that no, no nobody can be relied on (lol), I can still put holes into the enemy.

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It's definitely just another test of how well can I (and the few others with a brain cell) carry this team? And there's no doubt that just one player alone can make a premade's job notably harder and really play a huge part in helping their team. However, the issue remains that the vast majority of teams don't want to be helped.

You might see the premade's alliance sitting atop a nearby cliff waiting for your alliance to gather at ice or on the other enemy before they jump in for the wipe. You might've marked the DRK. You might call this warning that they're incoming. You might call another warning as they start charging. You might MNK LB the DRK etc. to buy your team escape time. But if your team are ignoring every single one of these notices (as happens more often than not), sadly my outcome is now pretty much decided on the poor play from my team. Hence, I can see the frustration with rouletters: I gave you everything you needed, you just ignored it, acted surprised at what just happened, and then waste the rest of the game complaining about premades in chat. Doesn't remotely cross their minds that they might be the issue.
But, such teams don't deserve to win. So, as frustrating as it can be, I think I'd prefer to lose the game than to see us win on pure fluke. I won't ever throw the game and will continue to counter the premade as much as I can, but a victory would be hollow