ya so now in pvp dd will destroy a blm in one second. Or at least Drgs and mnks will. Drgs hit box is as big as Blms Blizzara, so even if they bind the Drg they can still reach blm with true thrust and legs sweep. Mnks will flat out annihilate Blm just cause of Shoulder Tackle how is that fair? there is no balance. Shoulder tackle stun, pounce stun, demolish, howling fist dead.
Black mages. . . .
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08-31-2012, 10:47 AMKoujiGeki
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08-31-2012, 11:29 AMAmyNeudaizI'm sorry but, how do you even know how PvP will work? You do know most skills are being changed too right?Quote:
Originally Posted by KoujiGeki
But playing along your little game of pretending to know what PvP in 2.0 will be like and making ignorant comments (no offense) about PvP... Resonance > Thunder > Thundara > Thundaga > dead Dragoon/Mnk before they can even reach you.
There's no need to get angry about things you don't know about. Just wait for info and make judgement then. Otherwise you'll turn into Rokien. -
08-31-2012, 11:45 AMKoujiGeki
ok well there is not a whole lot of options to make pvp unique in this FF. The coliseum can either be like wows kill the other team, capture the flag, etc or just make it like all generic pvp this person wishes to duel you do you accept. or like 11s pvp you start on opposite end and just kill each other.
and if its ls vs ls there are players who specifically build to fight 1 job. Theyll stack up on lightning resistance gear.
well unless they get rid of shoulder tackle or get rid of the stun the monk would be right up in the Blms face. ok sure they they might get thundara of but highly doubt a thunaga its to long a cast. and a blm is not gonna out run a Mnk with fist of winds up.
just sying if tthey dont switch blm around blm just gonna get screwed in pvp. -
08-31-2012, 11:57 AMAmyNeudaizAgain, this is all in the pretext that there are no changes to spells, skills and weaponskills. Which is not the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by KoujiGeki
You're starting to sound like Rokien here.... I don't think you want that.. -
08-31-2012, 12:04 PMKoujiGeki
oh god no. dont help he looks like me.
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08-31-2012, 07:50 PMJinrya-Geki
Just waiting for pvp to come out and all the Pvpers wanting Thunder Thundara combo nerfed, if it already isn't by 2.0 release.
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09-07-2012, 03:45 AMOnisakeThis is assuming 1-on-1. PvP will likely be group vs. group. BLM is designed to be a glass cannon. it needs a support line to function as intended.Quote:
Originally Posted by KoujiGeki
assuming mnk has FoW up, the blm could also stack wind resistance.
but assuming 1-on-1:
Resonance => blizzard => thunder => thundara => blizzara to bind => run out of range => sleep => run => necro + darkseal => flare => Thundara (no combo, to stun) => blizzard (for heavy) => kite => second wind => sanguine => sleep => freeze.
BLM has a clear advantage over mnk. assuming the blm can survive the initial onslaught (should be easy) the mnk's longer CDs will prevent it from doing anything. the blm only has to worry about surviving long enough to get the first blizzara off. easy enough if you plan right.
but really we wont' know how things will work until we try it out. -
09-16-2012, 07:55 AMZante
Have got to remember that BLM is still a beast even with just thunder combo but i have to admit there needs to be a wider range of single target and aoe magic Blizzard is also useless even to mobs that are weak to ice it does pretty low numbers but what SE is trying to do i suppose is to balance the system so BLM is not needed in every single event (not like its not needed in 90%).
But also on a side note WHM is a healer its meant to heal so saying "WHM only casts like 3 spells so boring" is pretty stupid. What you want it do cast cure and at the same time opens a black hole under the mob and suck it into oblivion?. -
09-18-2012, 10:40 PMAlkimiPretty much this, they'll have to change a lot from what we have now. As it stands a single WHM could decimate an entire party in about 3 seconds if given the chance so adjustments will have to be made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onisake
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10-11-2012, 01:46 PMReika
Well this was never about balance in pvp or how good Blm is in instance runs or boss fights, this was about the how stupid they did their spells.
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10-16-2012, 01:15 AMTiberiousTo add to this. Why do the TP-based skills not necessarily increase in efficiency as you acquire them at higher levels. For example, why is fast blade still the best standalone special attack even though 10 levels later I receive flat blade? Why does Rage of Halone miss 3 out of the 5 blows on anything 1 level higher than me or above? This equates to a total amount of damage equivalent to like 2 regular melee attacks. Why does Riot blade miss 80% of the time? In other words, as I get stronger, why don't my skills show it? I just get a bunch of progessively suckier abilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reika
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10-16-2012, 03:07 AMKoujiGeki
I remember when Dark Knight only had one good ws (slice) till level 60 when it got its only other good ws to use (guillotine). c.c
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10-19-2012, 03:18 AMBranniganHi,Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberious
I'm assuming this post is serious here. Do you know how the combo system works? You use all of your weapon skills in this game. With a few exceptions, weapon skills should almost always be used in combos. Paladin, for example, has:
Fast Blade (front) > Flat Blade
Fast Blade (front) > Savage Blade > Goring Blade
Phalanx > Spirits Within
Riot Blade (rear) > Rage of Halone
Using Rage of Halone without first using Riot Blade from behind will result in misses. But, if you use Riot Blade from behind first, Rage of Halone will cost 0 TP and get a large accuracy boost. If your Riot Blade is missing 80% of the time then I would suggest you stop fighting things 20 levels above you, check your parser, or wear more accuracy gear.
Paladin's WSes are undeniably awesome. Phalanx and Savage Blade are probably the worst ones, but they're used in good combos so it evens out.
The reason individual attacks don't necessarily get stronger as you level (although they do - Riot Blade hits waaaaaaaaaay harder than 2 Fast Blades) is because they're not meant to be used outside of combos. When something is meant to be able to be used outside of a combo, it's usually pretty obvious. Steel Cyclone is the first one that comes to mind. It has the same TP cost as its combo starter (a cheap 1000) and stuns attackers even without a combo bonus.
This whole post will be irrelevant in 2 weeks so -
10-19-2012, 04:09 AMTiberiousQuote:
Originally Posted by Brannigan
Whatever, if I see "fervor" I'm out.
Edit: Thanks for the batle advice as well. It seems that stun>move behind>Riot blade> Rage of Halone is a pretty potent combo that lands most of the time. -
11-24-2012, 11:05 AMUriahnool
I absolutely HATE the BLM system in 1.0 since the class reform. Seems like it's always lightning for every BLM for every situation unless you want to be "crazy" and throw in a fire spell for low damage and more aggro from mobs that aren't yet being targeted. I am wondering where elemental spells even come into play, and what happened to being able to toggle AOE, and where HP drain and MP siphon went to. What happened to astral and umbral damage? It would be nice to utilize other spells and techniques in a class rather than the same three lightning spells over and over. How is that fun? I can't work out a strategy, customize my character, or play in any other way that is effective. Let's say I want to enfeeble the enemy's stats or poison it or weaken it a bit before I start throwing spells at it. I don't have that strategy available. I can't work with elements or exploit an enemy's weakness or do anything cunning or strategic. I can just keep pressing "lightning" over and over and over and over.
I feel more like a sith lord in FFXIV than ever I felt a BLM. -
11-24-2012, 11:31 AMsyntaxliesYoshi said existing mage classes would get a bunch of new spells(additional spells) in ARR i while ago, not sure how many though. I wouldn't be surprised if BLM was so limited in 1.0 for short term goal balance. If they knew alot was gonna change in 2.0 maybe they didnt want to spend a lot of money balancing jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reika
i actually asked this question for the letter but you know how that goes...
maybe yoshi got the job concept from thunder cats,
thunder! THUNder!! THUNDER!!! hoooooo -
11-25-2012, 05:53 AMReikaWell I see from the ARR site that they are giving conj water spells at least, but not much else. I dont even think conj should get water magic, but meh, i guess it fits their 'from gridania' image. Even so, I think BLM should have access to ALL elements of elemental destriction, not just fire ice and lightning, else they cant give BLM Flood, Quake, or Tornado sensibally, since those elements 'belong' to conjorers.Quote:
Originally Posted by syntaxlies
I dont see why they didnt just take all the elemental attacks from conjorer, since they use to have all of them, and give them to thm while they took away thms ability to heal others, and without using an ability and the next damage spell (cheap and stupid drain, please give drain back thx). It's just too broken and stupid the way it is.
I really cant wait for Beta so I cant equip this mogstaff I never wanted and see if they un-$@#%'d it..... -
11-25-2012, 07:14 PMJinrya-Geki
Because people think 1 out of 14 Final Fantasy should be the one to decide that cjn/whm should have aero/stone, when more games had black mage and blue mqge use them more.
They should just get banish/ga and holy/ga. Unless the mob is holy based,when would they be resisted? -
11-26-2012, 12:06 AMAlaltusBecause 1 out 14 Final Fantasy games should be the one to decide Conjurer/Whitemage shouldn't?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki
Final Fantasy XI is the only game where Blackmage has equal prowess in Earth Wind and Water compared to Fire, Ice and Thunder. Blackmage in any other game has only ever possessed one or two of the other elements at any one time and usually is just a single spell e.g Quake, Tornado, Water and Aero.
Perhaps what would be nice is if say Blackmage had greater access to Conjurer specific elemental nukes than a Thaumaturge etc could gain access to but i'm happy to wait and see what SE come up with even if they are being secretive about it. -
11-26-2012, 06:11 AMJinrya-Geki
I'd rather it not be secretive.
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11-26-2012, 07:12 AMAlaltusYeah me too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki
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02-20-2013, 02:31 PMXeiaQuote:
Originally Posted by Uriahnool
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reika
Every time this topic is raised I see the closest thing we ever get to a consensus in these forums. Sure, people are against it, but there's actually no name calling in this thread. And people seem to want black mages to be the elementalists, and white mages to stick to healing, buffing, and holy damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki
While it's true that they're not the ever-present staples of the Black Mage class, that's not really an argument for leaving them in the White Mages' corner. They do appear as Black Magic more often than they appear as White Magic. Aero is an old White Magic spell, true, but has been Black Magic significantly more often. Neither Water nor Stone have ever existed as White Magic to my knowledge, and Water has all the appropriate tiers (Water, Watera, Waterga) available as Black Magic in X.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaltus
Just because traditional FF Black Mages aren't masters of every element simultaneously doesn't mean Water and Stone aren't traditionally Black Magic. And Aero's on the fence, I admit, but I'd still prefer to have my White Mages using light or holy magic rather than elemental. -
02-20-2013, 02:35 PMvaletarkus
stone has been a white magic spell in previous ff. FF3 to name at least one. Didn't bother to verify with any others.
In FF2 the black mage seemed to have all the elemental spells like some want. And in ff3 white mage did have aero, stone, and tornado. So it does go both ways.
I personally like that white mage has some attaking elemenatl abilities. It makes it more fun to play. Healing over and over and over can get boring especially when your party is doing well. -
02-20-2013, 02:59 PMXeiaStone was not a White Magic spell in FFIII. The only earth-elemental spell that existed in III was Quake, which was Black Magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by valetarkus
You are perhaps confusing it with the White Magic spell "Stona", which did exist in FFIII as well. That dispels the 'petrified' ailment; it is not, as its name implies, an elemental spell.
As previously mentioned, White Mages did not have Stone in FFIII. And I've already conceded that Aero (and Tornado, by extension), appears as a White Magic spell. But it's the only one.Quote:
In FF2 the black mage seemed to have all the elemental spells like some want. And in ff3 white mage did have aero, stone, and tornado. So it does go both ways.
Though I'm tempted to point out that if you find repetitive healing boring White Maging may not be the role for you... I'm actually inclined to agree. However, there are other ways to diversify a White Mage's job other than giving it elemental nukes. The light-aligned spells (Holy, Banish)that have previously been listed come to mind. We're lacking our usual arsenal of ailment-specific cures (such as the aforementioned Stona, or Poisona, or Blindna...), which takes a lot less mana than just spamming Esuna, which is the only option we have at the moment. Not to mention cooldown issues with that method. Plus, there are a handful of enfeebles which have always been White Magic which ought to be returned (like Paralyze and Silence).Quote:
I personally like that white mage has some attaking elemenatl abilities. It makes it more fun to play. Healing over and over and over can get boring especially when your party is doing well.
White Mages would be boring without the Elemental Magic they currently possess not because they really ought to have those spells, but because they are missing a massive chunk of the spells that make them fun. And while we may see them returned in ARR, it doesn't look good for seeing these "stolen" spells returned to Black Mage.
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Edit: I decided to better research what school of magic each spell belongs to, so I jotted some stuff down. Then I made it a pretty graph and now I'm sharing it with you.
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6555/chartzs.png
I counted any elemental damaging skill for this chart, and only used it when the game makes at least a decent divide between black and white magic. For example, Rydia learns Quake (an earth-type damaging spell) in FFIV. While she is not a Black Mage, it is distinctly classified as a Black Magic spell.
I did not include VI, VII, VIII, or XIII since they do not make those clear distinctions. -
02-20-2013, 04:04 PMvaletarkus
Oh yeah i think I did get stone confused with Stonera. My bad! :/ Either way I still love white mage being able to deal some damage!
But trust me I'm a damn good white mage. :) It's my second favorite class. -
02-20-2013, 04:44 PMKoujiGeki
Well your still doing damage with Holy and Banish though. so its not like your loosing the Dmg aspect of Whm. if you just replace them with Aero and Stone. Whm can keep water since water is an element of healing.
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02-20-2013, 05:19 PMKinseykinzNo, there is no agreement on this, but rather you keep seeing the same 'blm sucks I need other classes skills then it won't suck' opinion from the same handful of people whenever this topic comes up. And frankly, until the people pushing for this realize that having more spells, ANY type of spells, doesn't inherently make Blm more fun, this topic will never get anywhere. Ask for changes in HOW the spells and skills you do have work...stop asking for skills and spells the game developers have already decided don't belong to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeia
A Black Mage asking to to gain the ability to cast Stone taking away the ability from CNJ/WHM is no different than a PLD demanding they get to use Steel Cyclone instead of Warrior....this game doesn't work that way...how other games work is irrelevant. -
02-20-2013, 09:30 PMAlaltusIt's not really an argument to take them away from White Mage's corner either which was my point. Lets be honest here the only arguement for Black Mage to have all the elements is because some people want to have them all as a Black Mage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeia
Personally i don't see the need for Black Mage to have them all. Most of the complaints are about the mechanics of the current spells which can be changed without bringing the other elements into the picture. -
02-20-2013, 10:22 PMvaletarkus
Holy in 1.0 sucked balls. Let's face it. We'll see if it is upped in 1.0
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02-21-2013, 12:28 AMForgohttp://s2.favim.com/orig/28/clapping...com-239549.gif I agree with this..thm/blm in 1.0 didn't feel anything like blms from other FF games...it lack...power and range of spells, just elem dam spells? really? wheres my debuffs and poisons and drains? >.> so yes I agree with the opQuote:
Originally Posted by Reika
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02-21-2013, 01:23 AMalkhemyXIIIhttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8qRRG_WD2m...0/applause.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Kinseykinz
Thank you, Kinsey... Just... Thank you...! -
03-01-2013, 04:49 AMXeiaThe way other games work isn't completely irrelevant. I get that there are a bunch of people who really just want FFXI-2, and that's silly. But there are also people who want to pretend this isn't a part of the Final Fantasy series and that's equally silly. It's not surprising to have people playing a Final Fantasy game asking for one of the iconic jobs to function as it traditionally does -- and I'm talking about WHM, not BLM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseykinz
I'm not asking for stone/aero as a Black Mage, I'm asking for white magic spells instead as a White Mage. Honestly I'd be happier if those spells were just removed than given to White Mage, though I do think they fit nicely in the game (on BLM, or even Blue or Red Mage if those get added later). Your example is sort of random. This is in no way similar to one random class asking for a random ability from another random class to be transferred to them. Steel cyclone is a high damaging move that makes sense for WAR, and not for PLD. Stone is a high damage elemental spell which takes advantage of specific elemental weaknesses in certain targets. That makes sense for a BLM.
But forget that for a moment. Let's focus on what a White Mage should be doing. In a party doing a levequest with any type of insect enemy (which was a lot of them at lower levels, in 1.0 anyway), then your primary magic damage dealer is not a BLM but a WHM. This does not make sense or fit the class. As a WHM I want to be able to focus on healing, on buffing, on a select few enfeebles, and only when the circumstances call for it, on holy damage as well. Not sharing the nuking responsibility with BLM. And if people want to still use it as a CNJ there's nothing stopping them from equipping it.
Plus, remember how CNJ and THM started. Both had healing spells, and all of the elemental spells (including the traditional BLM spells) were part of the CNJ class. When jobs were implemented the spells were moved around. THM was stripped of its healing abilities to translate better into a BLM and CNJ was stripped of only half its elemental spells. I assume it was because CNJ had no other damaging spells and adding new abilities wasn't something they wanted to invest time in at that juncture (and they didn't want to leave it with no ability to do damage whatsoever).
So, in short, this isn't "black mages asking for a white mage ability." This is players of both classes asking for the conversion of CNJ to a proper white mage, which was STARTED when jobs were implemented, to be finished. And if those spells find their way to BLM as a result, that's only an added bonus.
Edit: And the argument that "this game doesn't work that way" isn't very helpful. This game doesn't work in any way that it doesn't work in. It's a useless tautology. By that logic, no suggestions made to improving the game are relevant. Also by that logic, should they move the other elemental attacks to BLM you'll be just as content because it will then be just "the way this game works."