The design of cc is so toxic that is very unfriendly to new players

I will go out of my way to maliciously roflstomp new players into next Tuesday who show themselves incapable of coping with it and throw 98% of the motivation to do so...on Yoshi's exceedingly productive development team. Why? Because they're too lazy to do something as simple as make a damage check.

Pve...savage content. You can't get in if you can't at least meet the equipment level requirements. Pvp (SPECIFICALLY speaking CC) fundamentally NEEDS something like this. There is no longer the luxury of carry potent. 4 vs 5 puts you with 2 feet In the grave right out the gate. When you have that one person who, under the guise of claiming to be a beginner, keeps queuing, getting you killed in the process because you have to pull double duty dps, of COURSE it starts to suck. Heaven forbid you find a colorful way of telling them to take themselves to the Wolf's den and practice training dummy for a while, because then it's likely to get interpreted as harassment by a GM. So what's the recourse? You 'legally....torture' them, which will motivate them to do one of two things: cry and quit playing, as stated above, or actually take themselves to a trainee dummy like they should have been doing in the first place, through their output, and return the favor right back to you. If you want to get cuddled in PvP, just do front lines or you can stay all the way in the back with your team and whimper hoping to keep you safe.

Once again, if the developers would actually do their jobs and just make a damage check (PER JOB) showing that first-time users at least have a fundamental understanding of the basics, 50% of these problems will go up and smoke immediately. Until then, it's up to those of us who don't have the patience to cuddle people to take matters to our own hands.

I did make a suggestion that they should add a tutorial to PVP. or let people do customs wiht atleast 2 people. One on each team that way they can be taught how CC works and let them mess around. Someoen even said they could make a hall of pups

Tutorial definitely needs to be placed as there are still many players that are missing hotbars or functions. Plus they don't even understand how Paladin's cover works.

As far as I know the current pvp has a crazy low new player retention so something is broken(I still think the dev is amazing and did amazing in pve plz don't ban me for criticism)

At the very least, it would be great to have a tutorial showing new players what their skills are in PVP (because many don't know - suddenly the hotbar disappears and they're like "!!!") vs what the skills are of the others. Not in like a "memorize this" way, but where, let's say, a Warrior uses the 75% heavy pull in effect on you, or DRK pulls you in, just concentrate on that -- what do you do? Little things like that give beginners at least a fighting chance. Smacking around on a training dummy isn't the same unless you're figuring out what all your moves are for the first time.

... despite the new glam reward rank is dead again. In the casual is just the same 10 ppl grinding tomestone and exp these day...

The new player experience is bad and I think a big reason for that is PVP isn't a core feature of the game. The devs just haphazardly added it because an mmo usually has a pvp mode. They've tried a few times to rework it and make it better but each iteration lacked an organic learning curve for new players.

To have really good pvp the dev's need to treat it more seriously.

I said it in other parts of the forum but especially in EU, there hasn't been any ranked matches for several weeks for any rank lower than Crystal. This is especially bad for new players, because this way no matter which tutorial they get, they will never even get to play ranked.

I think the most important thing (as an EU player at least) would be mixing the queues of all datacentres (EU, NA, JP and OCE) together. At this point we can talk about tutorials.
As far as I have heard there all top players of NA and EU playing on JP anyways.

So especially the ranked experience is pretty bad in EU (and OCE as well).

I stick to casual cause I'm not gonna hop worlds, and it was a pain anyways. However, I play it A LOT.

Any consistent behavior can be exploited. Just bait out a single target aggressive monk. Switch jobs to capitalize on it. Stay in the back with others who can punish them for it. Mark them for clarity. Win every match because your enemy team is always down 1 guy.

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Originally Posted by Freyt

I stick to casual cause I'm not gonna hop worlds, and it was a pain anyways. However, I play it A LOT.

Any consistent behavior can be exploited. Just bait out a single target aggressive monk. Switch jobs to capitalize on it. Stay in the back with others who can punish them for it. Mark them for clarity. Win every match because your enemy team is always down 1 guy.

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Nobody should switch jobs that they love to play / main just because of one person that irritates them. This will lead to even greater tilt, more focus on you now because "class changer" and more lost games. If games are already bad -> quit and come tomorrow. Enemy team might be 1 guy down but they can still win easily if they have an impenetrable tanks such as GNB or DRK that will carry 1v5 anyways + someone like Scholar in combo. Your game is already over. Or your team might be 2 people down instead.

The mentioned tutorial just needs to be placed so people MUST place their hotbar and learn how to do it. Not enter in ranked where they don't have barrier, potion and recuperate,etc. Specially first timers. It's a big pain when discord communities must align themselves to play at certain hours just to "create" games for others.

Edit: forgot to mention but a lot of people lost interest in pvp due to cheating and 3rd party tools usage.

They just need to put grindable loot for a longer process for casual / Frontline queue and not force us to do ranked, pretend to care, for 2 totems to get the armors they are bringing back. 90% of the time people only care about the armors / rewards, not for glory cause lets face it, there's no real glory in FF14s pvp with you hitting your button but the elixir of your enemy still goes off. (Very good game)

Anyway, here's the solution.
Cap wolfmarks for 1 piece of armor, then upgrade it to make it dyeable with trophy crystals.
New player game mode where they can have 'fun' while getting loot. Everyone wins.

But Nope, forcing me to do ranked, hating myself to crystal until I just abandon it as soon as I get there. The earlier the better.

You're not forced to do ranked. You're not even forced to play the game. That's a conscious choice you do.

Now if certain rewards are locked behind certain things like ranked, and whether or not they should be, is definitely worth discussing.

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Originally Posted by NevaehQuest

I was watching some stream of a friend trying out cc for just for a while, this asshole mnk just keep lbing and ratting her to the point that she doesn't want to play cc ever again. I just think that the game mode should at least have some kind of protection against ratting. In most of the pvp has a safezone, or base with turret so new player can spend time learning the game. I think cc will never be popular if is this unfriendly to new player.
I am saying this cause I do care about the game mode, but its dead right now with players only doing it for pvp series and exp.
Like beside older players I know, I am having trouble convincing any new player to play cc.
Ranked game been dead for like a while now.

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Well you need experience to become good and this is not an environment you can script yourself out of...

There is ONLY ONE advice to all this... practice and by doing such you must do CC on repeat, so you can get better there IS no other way than to get into like that... if mobility is what keeps you alive learn how to run and be effective at the same time and so on and so forth.... you can't shoot around corners for an instance.

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Originally Posted by RedAkihabara

Lack of Tools: The forced silence means no one can offer advice or even a simple "group up" call. The new player is isolated, confused, and getting destroyed with no way to understand why or how to improve.

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The forced silence is the best part of it, because otherwise you would be having people ranting for 5 to 10 minutes and the pace of the battle does not allow for keyboard ninjas either, there IS no way to learn this... you can learn your basic rotations in the Wolves Den Pier and further more you can duel people as well there, if you are looking for advice that is or to practice outside of the CC enviroment.

Stop saying there is a lack of tools, when the tools is right there at hand, the only difference is faster pace when inside a CC battle.

The main issue is on boarding, no forced tutorial, not disallowing ppl to que pvp if all the buttons are not on your bars.
But there is the the entitled apathy of those joining.
Dont know how to do something and youre involving other ppl? Do the minimum and ask or look it up.

Theres also players cant figure out that 4v5 is bad and grouping is good.
You can hit GROUP UP and ppl's ego wont have them do it.

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Originally Posted by ShiyuuHQ

They just need to put grindable loot for a longer process for casual / Frontline queue and not force us to do ranked, pretend to care, for 2 totems to get the armors they are bringing back. 90% of the time people only care about the armors / rewards, not for glory cause lets face it, there's no real glory in FF14s pvp with you hitting your button but the elixir of your enemy still goes off. (Very good game)

Anyway, here's the solution.
Cap wolfmarks for 1 piece of armor, then upgrade it to make it dyeable with trophy crystals.
New player game mode where they can have 'fun' while getting loot. Everyone wins.

But Nope, forcing me to do ranked, hating myself to crystal until I just abandon it as soon as I get there. The earlier the better.

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I know the pain. I used to play ranked in this game for many seasons until I burnt out and finally reached crystal several times enough to gather materials for shiny weapons. The armor they set for red crystals aren't worth at all. But the journey is indeed a big pain and you'll feel much better once you stop doing ranked.

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Originally Posted by Avarence

The main issue is on boarding, no forced tutorial, not disallowing ppl to que pvp if all the buttons are not on your bars.
But there is the the entitled apathy of those joining.
Dont know how to do something and youre involving other ppl? Do the minimum and ask or look it up.

Theres also players cant figure out that 4v5 is bad and grouping is good.
You can hit GROUP UP and ppl's ego wont have them do it.

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That's partially due to high end players hating those emotes. "Group up" and "Fall back and regroup" are the most hated emotes someone can do. If done in the game, you have very high chances to receive an ignore marker and be talked about on various discords.

You'd be surprised how many 4v5 end up winning because they just have way better team comp than the enemy team + they can stall insanely good. Even one paladin or GNB can stall enough for his entire team to come back even though its 1v5. Crazy I know. Grouping should not be done in the end game at any cost. When timer is out, there should be just one person in the crystal. If all go there > more AOE to your team and a certain death.

Some matches can't be won if enemy has a sage / dnc and these combos. This is just a death sentence as you will be forced to enter in sage's lb to win the game.