Official Statement: Regarding Mod Usage and Culture

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I was thinking exactly this. SE had to spend 0 dollars to have it taken down. All they had to do is have one of their lawyers send a routine cease and desist.

If true it makes the letter actually quite manipulative, giving the impression SE cares about in game accomplishments and protecting minors. That is just objectively not true.

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Where did you get that impression? You read a cease-and-desist letter? A legal filing? Or are you referring to the linked statement, which is a reiteration of a viewpoint as old as the game?

I made a post in someones topic a few days ago how Yoshi is not adressing the issue formally and splitting the mod and none mod communities. Its somewhere around here. Guess I was right.

On topic: It's about time Yoshi made an official statement that is written about mods. Everyone with a brain could see where it was heading with all the screenshots of Gposes flying around the Internet of suggestible content making FF14 look suspect.

It's nice to see the community has read and understood Yoshis message even though I saw this coming a mile off.

Looks like he caught it just in time.

First rule of fight club is?

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Where did you get that impression? You read a cease-and-desist letter? A legal filing? Or are you referring to the linked statement, which is a reiteration of a viewpoint as old as the game?

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The creator of Mare received a cease and desist letter. He confirmed it. As in he, the dev whose personal information was indeed on the github and patreon, which he also admitted wss a mistake.

Is this letter as old as the game? Yoshi P has cited inflation and online protection acts before ? That would just make it mean he's been a con this whole time.

It would kinda make sense to be honest, why he seems to only vaguely know what is happening at any given moment and why his letters sometimes really don't make any sense. Sometimes I think he flies around the world doing interviews while his team crafts male bunny boys he later admitted to having no idea about.

Also this letter is not a "rule of fight club" letter. Its a firm stance against mods like Mare, but without the action to back it up and a "don't talk about fight club" thrown in. In other words its just for show and nothing has really changed. Very political actually.

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Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora

Bravo, Yoshi P.

Well said.
Well worded.
Everything was crystal clear.

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It's about time. I have been watching the communities that are pro mod and those that are pro ToS go at eachother like crazy over the years.

Hopefully this shuts everyone up!

It is certainly a clear statement! And far outweighs the millions of live letter links that were tongue in cheek about stuff.

No wonder it got out of hand with that one specific mod.

Good for Yoshi daring to put himself out there (and could be used as a sheild against any legal action "Well here's my post I told them not to, go after the mod developers")

But still good for him doing that on the actual FF14 news posts which can't be twisted by media outlets because ppl can't be bothered looking for a specific phrase in a live letter years ago at god knows what time stamp.

This is clear, precise and to the point.

He needs to do more of this.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Also this letter is not a "rule of fight club" letter. Its a firm stance against mods like Mare, but without the action to back it up and a "don't talk about fight club" thrown in. In other words its just for show and nothing has really changed. Very political actually.

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So, not about the statement quoted in the original post? Got it.

My statement is acknowledging the reiteration of a point of view by Square Enix about mods that is as old as the game.

A cease-and-desist letter is a polite way of saying "cease, or we sue". It is a warning prelude to a legal action. You'd prefer the originator of the mod in question go to court? You started a GoFundMe for them yet?

So modders did it to themselves, which nearly everyone already knew. Apparently it's extremely difficult to not use the ffxiv tag when uploading your in-game porn to twitter.

Overall, I consider Yoshi's statement to be a win. Sure I find it lame that one of SE's reasons for banning the mod was because it reduced the profitability of the cash shop. But the fact is that the mod enabled users to show adult content to anybody else using the mod including minors. Unregulated pornographic content distributed nearly without limitation is bound to encounter certain legal obstacles depending on location, so good on you SE for stepping up and taking the laws of customer countries into consideration.

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

Overall, I consider Yoshi's statement to be a win. Sure I find it lame that one of SE's reasons for banning the mod was because it reduced the profitability of the cash shop. But the fact is that the mod enabled users to show adult content to anybody else using the mod including minors. Unregulated pornographic content distributed nearly without limitation is bound to encounter certain legal obstacles depending on location, so good on you SE for stepping up and taking the laws of customer countries into consideration.

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Completely agree with this.

This mod has been in circulation for what 3 years? It shares mods that ppl use to run around with massive breasts, arse and genitalia? What is this game rated again?

I bet many dread to think.. but you've most likely used this mod with a MINOR. That is the sad truth.

Oops..

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Originally Posted by Catwho

Yoshi P doesn't care what you do to your local computer. But they don't want you messing with other people's computers.

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I think this is the most important thing there. Also, I think Yoshi P's post was sensible.

Personally I do not find anything wrong with what was said around the cash shop, like a few others on this thread. If you do not want to support it don't buy from it, but do not try and have your cake and eat it too by modding those items for yourself for free. Making cash shop items an off limits thing for even mods seems like more than a reasonable request also things like ultimate items add to that list as well. These both seem fair and I know I have experinced a few people say smugly how ultimate weapons don't matter if they can mod them in. Having these things as off limits is fair and reasonable.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

So, not about the statement quoted in the original post? Got it.

My statement is acknowledging the reiteration of a point of view by Square Enix about mods that is as old as the game.

A cease-and-desist letter is a polite way of saying "cease, or we sue". It is a warning prelude to a legal action. You'd prefer the originator of the mod in question go to court? You started a GoFundMe for them yet?

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I have no idea what you are talking about, and I genuinely mean that. My original point is that this mod was only shut down because the dev's public info was easy to find. It isn' that complicated.

Other mods that perform the same functions to varying degrees already existed before Mare and will continue to exist. This letter is indeed, just for show. If anything, they will use Mare as some kind of example they have actually done something if/when these mods do actually become a larger problem.

And it worked btw. Just look at all the posts. Such sensible and wise Yoshi P lol. Players actually believe SE just woke up one random day after years and decided just now, this one mod had just gone too far. I highly doubt it. Something forced their hand and it was easy to do.

. People are already rushing to new alternatives, if you know you know.

I don't understand the cheering coming from either direction, he didn't say anything he hasn't already said before. Nothing happened. This is like the third time he's made this exact statement-the last time word for word, this time broken down for those without access to hooked on phonics. We already knew all this.
Good reminder, I guess???

Let's be honest here

https://i.imgflip.com/1nji3l.gif

Yoshi-P's statement is good and logical, yet also really funny just because I know the community is going to fuck it up on purpose somehow down the road. Some players read this statement, that was pretty much written in a way for 5 year olds to understand, and already somehow genuinely came to the conclusion that Yoshi-P just gave the green light to both freely use and freely talk about any/all mods they want as long as they don't "infringe" on anything.

Reading comprehension and FF14 really don't mix for some players and this really seems like it'll be the situation that keeps on giving down the road.

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Originally Posted by ZXN

Yoshi-P's statement is good and logical, yet also really funny just because I know the community is going to fuck it up on purpose somehow down the road. Some players read this statement, that was pretty much written in a way for 5 year olds to understand, and already somehow genuinely came to the conclusion that Yoshi-P just gave the green light to both freely use and freely talk about any/all mods they want as long as they don't "infringe" on anything.

Reading comprehension and FF14 really don't mix for some players and this really seems like it'll be the situation that keeps on giving down the road.

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Everyone is glossing over this sentence.

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Of course, from my position leading FFXIV, I still feel that it is vital for players to follow our user agreement and other rules.

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First rule of Fight Club. Same as it always was.

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

If it does confirm anything it's that having "Mare Lamentorum" in your Adventure Plate, and possibly even the letter "C" with some slash mark near it (if you know, you know) is probably going to be treated less tolerably from now on.

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whats the letter C with some slash mark? I swear i learned so much stuff from this over the past two weeks like moon aand mare and all other words XD

The only rule of the Fight Club
Do not mention Fight Club

And if you can't do it, consider yourself no-no brain

Is the phrase "fight club" the most used words in the forum this past week ?

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Originally Posted by Sunhwapark

Is the phrase "fight club" the most used words in the forum this past week ?

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It might just be...

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Originally Posted by All_Nonsense

forcing us all to install some stupid kernel-level anticheat.

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Microsoft is limiting kernel-level access to improve system stability and security. This shift gained urgency after a faulty CrowdStrike update in 2024 caused global Windows crashes due to a kernel-level driver. Microsoft now encourages security tools to operate in user mode to reduce the risk of system-wide failures.
Game developers may avoid kernel-level anti-cheat for several reasons: it can destabilize systems, raise privacy concerns, and break compatibility with platforms like Linux and Steam Deck. With Microsoft tightening control over the kernel, relying on deep system access is becoming less viable and harder to support long term.

Notebook Check: Microsoft paves the way for Linux gaming success with plan that would kill kernel-level anti-cheat
Acer: How Microsoft’s Kernel Changes May Impact Anti-Cheat Software

This whole situation feels silly to me because all these people had to do was keep a low profile but decided to self-report themselves by taking over a public zone...and I have zero doubts they'll probably do it again even if a replacement for Mare manages to show up.

I've also already randomly had 18+ modded XIV content show up in the general XIV feed for twitter multiple times which is precisely the kind of thing the devs do not want happening and probably will keep happening regardless.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

This whole situation feels silly to me because all these people had to do was keep a low profile but decided to self-report themselves by taking over a public zone...and I have zero doubts they'll probably do it again even if a replacement for Mare manages to show up.

I've also already randomly had 18+ modded XIV content show up in the general XIV feed for twitter multiple times which is precisely the kind of thing the devs do not want happening and probably will keep happening regardless.

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3 whole entire zones in Bismarck were locked out preventing anybody from questing in those regions for multiple weeks because of a party that was kept going, because of Mare as a critical componant.

There are already 2 new versions of mare, probably more.

Quick repost cause the other threat got locked away.

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I genuinely appreciate the official response. I have my issues with the game, but I still highly respect Yoshida as a developer, and our producer.

Reading this, and from the video interview with the Mare dev that someone else posted, I think both Yoshi-P and the dev regret what Syncshells became.

I also love that Yoshi has to encourage the TOS because of his position, but is not an idiot about mods, which I would definitely never use because they're illegal :)

In short: Wanna use mods? Don't be a fucking dumbass about it.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

mods, which I would definitely never use because they're illegal

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Doesn't know the what the term illegal is. Keep white knighting.

https://media1.tenor.com/m/PPElSdC-s...ap-yapping.gif

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Originally Posted by s32ialx

Doesn't know the what the term illegal is. Keep white knighting.

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Yeah man, I'm a law abiding fairy! I'd never use those Viera hats, hair, makeup, glowy eyes, vespa bike, dresses, functional flying pixie wings and fae-inspired mods!
https://i.imgflip.com/11e8zh.jpg

You're not terribly smart, are you?

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Yeah man, I'm a law abiding fairy! I'd never use those Viera hats, hair, makeup, glowy eyes, vespa bike, dresses, functional flying pixie wings and fae-inspired mods!
https://i.imgflip.com/11e8zh.jpg

You're not terribly smart, are you?

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some people just can't read what they are seeing on the screen. and also looking for something or someone to be mad at lmao

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Originally Posted by Sunhwapark

Is the phrase "fight club" the most used words in the forum this past week ?

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I mean, it's a well known line from a well known movie, and it gets the point across succinctly.

One could also say, "don't fly too close to the sun."

At the end of the day, players need to be judicious and exercise a bit of common sense when it comes to mod usage. As Yoshi-P, the GMs, and community team has always had more of a "don't ask, don't tell" approach regarding this; rather than blanket, to the letter enforcement of the ToS.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

This whole situation feels silly to me because all these people had to do was keep a low profile but decided to self-report themselves by taking over a public zone...and I have zero doubts they'll probably do it again even if a replacement for Mare manages to show up.

I've also already randomly had 18+ modded XIV content show up in the general XIV feed for twitter multiple times which is precisely the kind of thing the devs do not want happening and probably will keep happening regardless.

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The problem with "these people" in any conversation for any game, any hobby, any medium, anything ever: it only takes a small % of bad actors to rot and devalue the whole entity. It also only takes a few bad actors to get other individuals of varying moral/personal quality to do also bad/negative things. I keep seeing the number floated around that Mare had some 200k connected user accounts, we're talking thousands of bad actors even if we assume they number only some single digit percentage. Any future Mare is going to need to have a higher technical barrier to entry and greater limitations on what you can do community wise- +/- any future Mare will need to have internal alternatives to adventure plates / shout chat (idk if Mare had them, I assume the answer is no based on how things played out)... because yeah I got no clue why people thought that using public shout + their adv. plate was a good plan (I didn't get to see the former of these first hand, I did the new summer event at zero hour of it coming out, so a large Mare crowd hadn't rolled in and dominated the place yet).

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

some people just can't read what they are seeing on the screen. and also looking for something or someone to be mad at lmao

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Yeeeeeah...
https://imgur.com/qyobRQV.png

in regards to the arguement of people using mods for mogstation items instead of buying them.

like piracy in general, if people would rather take the unofficial route to get your product/item, they either dont have the money for it, or dont think its worth the price and likely would not have purchased it anyway.

and i think this may have an opposite effect as people who may have used mod for mogstation items may well feel far less inclined to spend money on them now.

whereas up until now people would buy things like emotes and gear sets because mods were being made to work off those items, either by directly replacing them or improving/expanding upon them

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Originally Posted by s32ialx

Microsoft is limiting kernel-level access to improve system stability and security. This shift gained urgency after a faulty CrowdStrike update in 2024 caused global Windows crashes due to a kernel-level driver. Microsoft now encourages security tools to operate in user mode to reduce the risk of system-wide failures.
Game developers may avoid kernel-level anti-cheat for several reasons: it can destabilize systems, raise privacy concerns, and break compatibility with platforms like Linux and Steam Deck. With Microsoft tightening control over the kernel, relying on deep system access is becoming less viable and harder to support long term.

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Microsoft are replacing those third-party security software "drivers" with a first-party API. The security software will still be able to make checks at a kernel-level but with a first party component that, in theory, won't have the same problems. Effectively they're doing what Apple has always done with macOS and the entire Mac line up.

If this were extended into the gaming space, you'd only accelerate the rate at which all anti-cheat enabled titles would become Windows 11 only with Secure Boot/TPM requirements. It would arguably be easier for Square Enix to add an anti-cheat if this were the reality, especially as they've already announced ending support for Windows 10 (the game may continue to run on W10 but they won't answer tickets regarding OS-related technical issues).

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

This whole situation feels silly to me because all these people had to do was keep a low profile but decided to self-report themselves by taking over a public zone...and I have zero doubts they'll probably do it again even if a replacement for Mare manages to show up.

I've also already randomly had 18+ modded XIV content show up in the general XIV feed for twitter multiple times which is precisely the kind of thing the devs do not want happening and probably will keep happening regardless.

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Its because they are so starved for attention, they have to spam their naked character all over twitter. And much like with any society you follow the slowest and dumbest member with laws.

Now because Steve and Cindy crashed their car while breaking the speedlimit x5 and will most likely do it again no matter how many times someone lectures them. Nobody else can soon step into a car to even drive

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

They are running a business, and players aren't entitled to things they designated as cash shop items for free. I suppose it doesn't matter if it's on your own computer and no one else can see it, but in situations where you get to walk around in the items for free and others can see it like Mare, that's an issue.

The statement was sensible and well thought out. There are realities, as a business owner, that costs of doing business rise every year and you can't always charge your clients any more than you have 10 years ago. You seem entitled.

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This will kind of be off topic but :

This would be true if there wasnt already additional costs in any sort but we have to buy for 60€ to get content for 3 years which is still less content then a singleplayer game overall + the monthly costs so lets do simple math

36x11= 396€ + 60€ = 456€ (Because with the new changes it seems the expansion releases are easy 3 years between) to get less content then a singlepayer game and then the best costumes are placed behind another paywall?

dont get me wrong i love the game, i always loved final and the lore behind it, i got 4 alts, with all of them i do every ultimate and every raidtier, i cleared with all of them, bozja, eureka, HH, PotD and FT + Chaos, so like i said i love still final, and you can call me entitled but with due respect costumes shouldnt be behind a paywall, heck espescially when the costumes arent even accountbound

This community will cross the line again and ouroboros itself.
Then they will cry without realizing the damages done.
Xenos interview with Mare Dev is 100% clear there are freaks out there.
And Yoshi Ps statement to stop stealing (literally) mogstation items
But again this community will cross the line, they've done it before, they'll do it again and Yoshi will eventually slam an anti-cheat on us.
I can't wait for the day to come, and I hope I'm wrong.

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Originally Posted by ShiyuuHQ

This community will cross the line again and ouroboros itself.
Then they will cry without realizing the damages done.
Xenos interview with Mare Dev is 100% clear there are freaks out there.
And Yoshi Ps statement to stop stealing (literally) mogstation items
But again this community will cross the line, they've done it before, they'll do it again and Yoshi will eventually slam an anti-cheat on us.
I can't wait for the day to come, and I hope I'm wrong.

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I dont think the game can handle anticheat.

More than reasonable post from Yoship all around.

And it's not just "don't talk about fight club." He's pretty explicitly saying that they're not ok with mods like Mare at all. Mods that are limited to your client only are fine.

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Originally Posted by ShiyuuHQ

This community will cross the line again and ouroboros itself.
Then they will cry without realizing the damages done.
Xenos interview with Mare Dev is 100% clear there are freaks out there.
And Yoshi Ps statement to stop stealing (literally) mogstation items
But again this community will cross the line, they've done it before, they'll do it again and Yoshi will eventually slam an anti-cheat on us.
I can't wait for the day to come, and I hope I'm wrong.

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These are all a result of incredibly relaxed moderation of players. This game largely may as well not have a ToS unless you go out of your way to offend someone. The way this game is moderated, this cycle will repeat itself over and over. Near enough every other community can be like this, where it is 'permitted'.

This game will never introduce anti-cheat. Yoshida's insistence on walking on eggshells with third party tools makes it pretty clear that the game (and the developers) rely on third-party tools just as much as what the community does.

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

Hahahahaha its exactly what i said, Money speaks like always, it clearly was because of the possibility to mod Ingamestore Shit and SHOW it to others which had to spend Money, it is exactly how i said it, i love it and with the increased server cost prices etc even if he said they dont wanna increase Sub Prices, wait for it, it still will happen sooner or later

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Oh I'm certain it might happen one day, but Yoshi P is doing what he and his team can to keep the prices down for now.

I read the full letter and with the well written explination and reasonings why they took their recent stance, I'm happy.

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Originally Posted by Scruit_Bigtime

in regards to the arguement of people using mods for mogstation items instead of buying them.

like piracy in general, if people would rather take the unofficial route to get your product/item, they either dont have the money for it, or dont think its worth the price and likely would not have purchased it anyway.

and i think this may have an opposite effect as people who may have used mod for mogstation items may well feel far less inclined to spend money on them now.

whereas up until now people would buy things like emotes and gear sets because mods were being made to work off those items, either by directly replacing them or improving/expanding upon them

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Okay, so...what is your point?

Like, why is it so hard for some people to understand (and accept) to NOT mod sync your (store or whatever) outfits to other mod users? And especially to not advertise it through "official" (more like, any) hashtags on social media...

He even stated that he does not care what people are doing to their character appearance on their side of the game. If you want to use any store item on your character, just do it. There is no need to justify it if you are doing it for yourself.