Viper feels incredibly boring.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

Man you are so narrow sighted it would be funny if it weren't so sad.

Not just regular Dungeons, Variant Dungens and Deep Dungeons too, Field Operations, Normal Mode Raids and Trials, Treasure Maps, and Alliance Raids, all of these gameplay experiences do benefit from interesting gameplay mechanics in a class (and that does extend to more than just Viper). Or do you want to say that people playing these gameplay bits are not allowed to have fun with their classes? I for one firmly believe classes should be fun to play, not just raid encounters.

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So still Content were DPS doesnt matter? Lets be real for a sec and before yet again from someone comes the argument "so content you enjoy" right from the start i enjoy EVERY Content in the Game, be it Savage/Ultimate or even DD and Variants, Extreme Trials, Alliance Raids or even Triple Triad, i enjoy literally everything the Game has to offer freak even Crafting

NG was a burden to the class, you talked about NG being fun, but it was quit the opposite, yes if you not care about "optimization" or anything then it may be fun for you, but if you start looking deeper in the viper materia you should see it was a hassle and destroyed so many options, take as example with the Burst we had while still NG was Ingame, it always ended with a NG refresh and you had to refresh it before the Burst, so it did take out some quit funny things, like example using UF and triple weave serpent ire to keep ire alignt with raidbuffs IN CASE of forced uptime loss, or 2x UF after the burst, Pot Optimization etc etc etc there are so many cases more (i only use some common one because it would be too much) which are now able which werent before because of NG

like i said, for you it was fun but the majority of viper player i meet so far be it casual or high end raider like the change square did

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

So still Content were DPS doesnt matter?

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What defines in what content "DPS does matter"?

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

So still Content were DPS doesnt matter?

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That is not the gotcha you think it is my guy. So you actually unironically think gameplay depth is not allowed in content where DPS is more inconsequential?

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NG was a burden to the class, you talked about NG being fun, but it was quit the opposite, yes if you not care about "optimization" or anything then it may be fun for you, but if you start looking deeper in the viper materia you should see it was a hassle and destroyed so many options

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All i read in this paragraph of yours (which is a whole lot of nothing) is that you find it exhausting when a game does not let you do whatever you want. You act like having to consider to apply NG to an enemy before and after burst was a hassle, while to others it was what kept you on your toes and made each engagement more interesting. Considering your CD and stacks on Dreadwinder was WAY more interesting and engaging than having this job play itself on autopilot.
In terms of raidbuff shit, yeah, another case of where buff stacking requirements destroy job gameplay. Fun /s

Actually, I thought about it a bit more really, and your opinion that Viper has depth added is absolutely false. It had restrictions removed, which allowed it to be more free form. That is the opposite of gameplay depth though. That makes it more shallow.

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like i said, for you it was fun but the majority of viper player i meet so far be it casual or high end raider like the change square did

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Confirmation bias. Most VPR players I met have dropped the class since the changes since they were dissatisfied with it, and I know of 2 who actually unsubscribed from the game in frustration. Most people now playing it are the ones not turned off by the changes.

The thing is, you are falling in the same trap that others have fallen in when BLM was reworked. So many players now "suddenly enjoyed" the class that did not enjoy it before hand, and the people that liked the gameplay were alienated by it. But, look at the past for a minute. The majority of forum posts in regards to the announced VPR changes back last year asked CS3 not to change the class. Yoshi-P even acknowledged that this was the case, and still decided to rework it because they were afraid people would be challenged. And more voices on the forums were against the changes once they were implemented. Just because a group of people are now able to play a class after it had been lobotomized because thinking is forbidden in this wonderful railroaded game does not mean the changes were a success. The few people that were for it mostly claimed it played the same, aka they played the class wrong.

The game has 21 classes, there could be something for everyone if they were allowed to be unique.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

What defines in what content "DPS does matter"?

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Content with a DPS Check and a Enrage, cant remember one instance where a nomal Trial/Raid/Dungeon/Alliance Raid had literally an enrage, so in other words Content were you need the Damage to clear the content

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Originally Posted by ovIm

That is not the gotcha you think it is my guy. So you actually unironically think gameplay depth is not allowed in content where DPS is more inconsequential?




All i read in this paragraph of yours (which is a whole lot of nothing) is that you find it exhausting when a game does not let you do whatever you want. You act like having to consider to apply NG to an enemy before and after burst was a hassle, while to others it was what kept you on your toes and made each engagement more interesting. Considering your CD and stacks on Dreadwinder was WAY more interesting and engaging than having this job play itself on autopilot.
In terms of raidbuff shit, yeah, another case of where buff stacking requirements destroy job gameplay. Fun /s

Actually, I thought about it a bit more really, and your opinion that Viper has depth added is absolutely false. It had restrictions removed, which allowed it to be more free form. That is the opposite of gameplay depth though. That makes it more shallow.




Confirmation bias. Most VPR players I met have dropped the class since the changes since they were dissatisfied with it, and I know of 2 who actually unsubscribed from the game in frustration. Most people now playing it are the ones not turned off by the changes.

The thing is, you are falling in the same trap that others have fallen in when BLM was reworked. So many players now "suddenly enjoyed" the class that did not enjoy it before hand, and the people that liked the gameplay were alienated by it. But, look at the past for a minute. The majority of forum posts in regards to the announced VPR changes back last year asked CS3 not to change the class. Yoshi-P even acknowledged that this was the case, and still decided to rework it because they were afraid people would be challenged. And more voices on the forums were against the changes once they were implemented. Just because a group of people are now able to play a class after it had been lobotomized because thinking is forbidden in this wonderful railroaded game does not mean the changes were a success. The few people that were for it mostly claimed it played the same, aka they played the class wrong.

The game has 21 classes, there could be something for everyone if they were allowed to be unique.

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After the Forum deceided not to post what i wanted to post and somehow deleted everything maybe i just misclicked idk but i make it quick dont wanna right everything again

In the end you do literally the same thing as i do but standing on a different site, you defend NG, im against it, you saying NG added depth, i said removing of NG added depth
you meet more people which didnt like the change, i meet more which liked the change

so now who has right and who not?

square will anyway do whatever square wants with player feedback or without it, so complain how much you want but it wont change dogshit

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

Content with a DPS Check and a Enrage, cant remember one instance where a nomal Trial/Raid/Dungeon/Alliance Raid had literally an enrage, so in other words Content where you need the Damage to clear the content

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Off the top of my head, because I remember parties that actually wiped to these:

• The adds during Gaius in Praetorium.
• For all practical purposes, the aetherial rift phase during The Chrysalis.
• The ice phase at the end of E8N.
• The crystal adds phase during the Lv.89 trial.
• The adds during Rubicante.
• The adds during M8N.

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

Content with a DPS Check and a Enrage, cant remember one instance where a nomal Trial/Raid/Dungeon/Alliance Raid had literally an enrage, so in other words Content were you need the Damage to clear the content

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Ruby Weapon NM has hard enrages (I do remember the casual party I had the first time I got through met the enrage twice before clearing). I don't remember which other ones have enrages, but I'm sure there is others, albeit not a lot.
Even without talking about true enrages, there is still boss gauge charging phases where there is things to kill under a certain time, usually when the boss charges up an ultimate that wipes everybody when reaching 100. But there is also other cases where it's about killing certain adds in time as well. The very first one players meet is the nail in Ifrit storymode.

honestly, I only play Viper because of my Deadpool Glamour.
I don't know what the goal of that Job is except it brough One Button 1-2-3 Combos into PvE which feel so strange how it is made/show with Viper..
I can see her the Tank or Burst 1-2-3 Combos could be turned into those kind of One Button Combos. But let me claim that the One Button Combos do not work with all Jobs!!! And Starting this how it was made with Viper just feels wrong.. it's nice that they signalized the Positionals with Colour though! But honestly.. who really cares for those 40 bonus potency on the Combo Finish at this point?
~~~~~Positional Rant~~~~~
I am not necessarily against positionals but the positional remove from Monk feels like a direction of going away from Positionals.. like they removed the positional from NIN's Trick Attack (sorry, I meant Mug) by turning it into an AoE. Which btw the notion of turning Single Target Skills into AoE Skills is something that I will disagree with, forever.
I miss Shoha II and I hate that Shoha is Geiskogul now, same with Cone Tenka being removed for a Aimless Circle Tenka..
~~Rant Over~~
But back to Viper.. also a problem is that there is basicly no flow outside of generating Blue Blood Energy for the Finisher and at lvl50 the Viper has 2 Buttons.. and at lvl60 the Viper has effectively 3 buttons.. and that Double Sword Gauge.. yeah it glows funny but really doesn't tell anything.. which only empowers the "Press Glowy Button"-Mentality that Viper Gameplay really only can explained by.. like yes, Viper clips there swords together but what does that actually do? is it just for an OGCD? But I also gotta commend their Achievement with Viper, because I can see this Gameplay being validated as a Cure for Insomnia. Because playing Viper puts me to sleep. Unless you have a Cool Glamour, why play Viper?