I just want a FF11 modern game.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

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Oh look, see you did find the info, none of which looks too out or the ordinary outside a couple things, and it took what 1 search. wasd also does work, I have been using it since 2005. I can also use the mouse to select things, if a bit wonky and directional keys have been common for moving through menus since computers were computers, so yes completely normal. Not being to do it in ffxiv is the actual weird part.

The fact that you didn't look this up before or at any started guides, esp for an old game, and instead "moving in circles trying to move, for absolutely hours" as you said, just proves that you were the guy putting a stick in his own spokes. But somehow its FFXI's fault.

You can post this again, but all you literally had to do was click w a s or d in the game and you would have moved.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

Oh look, see you did find the info

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I looked up plenty of things beforehand. It's just that it takes a lot of getting used to when it doesn't work like other games due to being designed for a controller.

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none of which looks too out or the ordinary outside a couple things

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The problem is that while ESC cancels a menu like normal, it doesn't also... bring up said menu. Most games, FFXIV included, ESC toggles between opening and closing the menu.

I forget what made it hard to navigate, but it probably began with the movement keys not being WASD. Once I got into the menu (which was very difficult because you had to select using the keyboard and you couldn't click like in every other game), and managed to finally switch the controls, there was probably the issue of turning correctly, which is probably where I had to start using the arrow keys to help.

And that's where the map issues happened. Navigating into the menu repeatedly to remember where to navigate.

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wasd also does work, I have been using it since 2005.

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Oh, well from what I read online and found in the game, they created a setting to make it work better for keyboards but you have to enable it, and that's what I enabled. It was probably Compact Keyboard?

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directional keys have been common for moving through menus since computers were computers

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We'll have to agree to disagree then? Because I think that hasn't been much of a thing since MS-DOS, the earliest versions of windows, and many versions of Linux.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

https://i.imgur.com/vgan2R3.png

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This is very outdated.

It's WASD movement with IJKL or (bad) mouse input for camera movement. You can also use a controller or rebind things as you prefer.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

It's WASD movement with IJKL or (bad) mouse input for camera movement. You can also use a controller or rebind things as you prefer.

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I remember the mouse input being so annoying to get used to for navigating.

I am relatively sure that in the hit game metal gear solid v the phantom pain, arrow keys were used to navigate through several layers of menu. (2015)
My gut says that mgr:revengeance also used arrow keys (2013).
Dark souls quick menu was arrow keys I think, possibly the full menu too? (2011).
Elden ring too for that matter I guess (2022)
I don’t remember any other control schemes off the top of my head.

If the keyboard controls bother you - play with a controller. The game was designed for PS2 and it feels more intuitive with a controller.

You have to remember that we're talking about a game from 2002, designed for console and ported to PC. It's still developed on the original PS2 Devkit and that obviously has limitations. Going out of your way to play a game that's almost 25 years old and complaining that it doesn't adhere to modern standards is just... odd. You wouldn't buy a vintage car and complain that it doesn't have electric windows, power steering and a dashboard laid out in the same manner that you would expect from a 2025 car.

It will take a bit of time to get used to the controls and interface but I'm not sure why you would expect anything else.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

It will take a bit of time to get used to the controls and interface but I'm not sure why you would expect anything else.

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I did expect it to be rough, it's just that it was worse than what I expected. What makes it different from your example is that it's a live service game still in service. The topic here is about a modern version of FF11, so this is one of the points that would help in a modern version of the game.

Took me a week to get used to the keyboard controls.

And even now I manually type in /map in other mmo's due to this habit. Ugh.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I did expect it to be rough, it's just that it was worse than what I expected. What makes it different from your example is that it's a live service game still in service. The topic here is about a modern version of FF11, so this is one of the points that would help in a modern version of the game.

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Sure, it's a live-service game, unfortunately, that doesn't change its history.

It's still an ancient PS2 game; built on the PS2 Devkit and ported to PC. They would need to effectively rebuild it from scratch to make it function like a modern game. It was designed for PS2 hardware and network capabilities and the dial-up internet of the time. You can't really compare it to something like WoW, which is only a few years younger but has been modernised much more over the years, because a lot changed in those few years and the games were developed in entirely different ways.

If we're talking about a new game, inspired by FFXI, obviously it would be updated in a lot of ways to remove some of the jank. But the jank just comes with the territory of a game like FFXI, and that definitely won't change. Luckily, the jank isn't so bad once you get used to how the game works and the game is good enough that it's easy to enjoy it despite certain things being unintuitive.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Took me a week to get used to the keyboard controls.

And even now I manually type in /map in other mmo's due to this habit. Ugh.

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3rd party let you set custom keybinds these days, so it's possible to bind M to map lol. The one that always messes me up is hitting space to type in chat...

My focus mostly is on making an actual game where things matter. And I did try FF11 back then, and a couple years ago. But as others stated, it's quite archaic. Now whether a mmo like that would work today, we don't know because no company wants to give it a try. Everyone keeps wanting to make the next subscription based cash machine to sell items through a cash shop for while giving as little content in the game as possible. If anything, a company would rather we just sit in one city talking while we give them money every month. And never be bothered to make dungeons or raids or quests.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

I don't think you're considering why those changes were made.

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And I don't think you're really listening to anything I'm saying. I'm not repeating myself again so as fellow FFXI fans let's just leave it at that.

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Originally Posted by MartinFreeman

Now whether a mmo like that would work today, we don't know because no company wants to give it a try.

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No company wants to give it a try because they know it would fail. I like that style of MMO as well but the reality is what it is.

They should have re-created FF11 into mobile version with modern UI, instead they release another 14 mobile.... hmmm

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I remember XI players would tell me the game created a community for how unfriendly and how hostile it was to learn to play. You needed people and each other to help you through even navigate a simple city, or to even kill a single monster. It would not be very popular or profitable today.

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EverQuest was the same way. There were one or two classes who could solo things by kiting things around - druids/rangers (with snare which slowed the mobs), necromancers (on specific undead mobs) and enchanters (who could charm) - but otherwise you were dependent on a group to do anything. There were no instances until Lost Dungeons of Norrath, so the game was camp and grind in a zone at specific spots until the day your guild had to battle against other guilds for who got to hit the raid target this week. There were only a certain number of safe pull spots in each zone and sometimes there were lines waiting for a spot in a group like at Highhold Keep. When Eureka Anemos came out and everyone was doing chain groups in specific areas before the fate train developed, it brought back a lot of those memories.

Travel was so bad that you would travel to an area and then log so you could actually camp and grind things there the next night. EverQuest had experience loss on death, so we had to get a safety bubble into a new level or risk dying and deleveling the next time we did the camp and grind treadmill.

It's not to say I didn't enjoy playing the game for 10 years. Obviously I got something out of it. But part of it was that it was just the MMO style at the time. EQ came out a few years before XI and then XI followed the same ideas and the smaller MMOs at that time did as well so we didn't really question it. When EQII and WoW (which came out like a week away from each other in 2004) came out, we saw that things didn't have to be that way. So many of us jumped ship.

I just don't see that genie being put back in the bottle now because MMO players know it doesn't have to be that way. There will be fans of the old style, but it's doubtful there will be an audience to make the game profitable and earn back the cost to produce it.

Just hurry-up and make an offline FF11 already so I can claim all the NMs for myself, invis/sneak my way all over and be a real boy on BLU and GEO.