How would you feel is level caps were integrated with the Main Story quests?

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Originally Posted by TaalAzura

In the long run having a game where you can't just speed through everything keeps players playing *points to abyssea*

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i'm not saying anything about speed running through everything. what i am saying is that i'm willing to go help a low level player with their content if they can't find a party because i can run through it quickly and not take alot of my time doing so. if they level cap it i'll just act like everyone else already does and ignore their cries for help.

the last thing this game needs is just another reason for people to be less likely to help each other. this game already has enough of that as it is and doesn't need help getting more that way.

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Originally Posted by TaalAzura

Sorry that my original post might have been ambiguous; I was referring to having everything scale accordingly to the level cap, not "you're no longer lv28 you can't complete this mission".

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I find it hard to believe that SE is capable of and willing to scale every single piece of gear in game to accommodate for such a system. Furthermore asking the player base to carry different level sets of armor to accommodate for level capped content will result in my exact scenario further pushing new players away from veteran players.

You are in luck though, there already is an alternative way to experience content at the appropriate level it was intended for. I really hope I dont have to spell it out for you though.

Well ideally, in 2.0 we will have a LFG content finder system, where finding people who need to complete a task can find others in the same situation (along with "cross server" content, which if storyline is largely instanced could easily be done). Plus, no one will have done any storyline come 2.0, so there should be a huge amount of people at all times looking to do these quests.

And considering yoshi wants a lot of leveling to be done with quests, the rewards for doing them will be pretty great, which should be enough of an incentive to do the quests.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

I find it hard to believe that SE is capable of and willing to scale every single piece of gear in game to accommodate for such a system. Furthermore asking the player base to carry different level sets of armor to accommodate for level capped content will result in my exact scenario further pushing new players away from veteran players.

You are in luck though, there already is an alternative way to experience content at the appropriate level it was intended for. I really hope I dont have to spell it out for you though.

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Level sync seemed to work fine in XI.

Also please spell it out for me, I must be missing your vague point.

I do want a CoP like Area with a Level cap, when they took Level cap away from CoP I cries.. my favorite expansion got ****ed >.<. I still have memories of that, Tower climbed Promy Chicken run-ed the last Floor and dying 20 times to Mega Boss finally beating it after a week. in XI I felt like I actually earned my right to advance to the next chapter of the story!

I want something like that again! o.o

No I don't want everything capped but story related fights and an area that gives a reason to be capped to reach a fight, that's something I would like to see in FFXIV: ARR.

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Originally Posted by TaalAzura

Level sync seemed to work fine in XI.

Also please spell it out for me, I must be missing your vague point.

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its called finding like minded people willing to do the content at the appropriate level.

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Originally Posted by TaalAzura

Well ideally, in 2.0 we will have a LFG content finder system, where finding people who need to complete a task can find others in the same situation (along with "cross server" content, which if storyline is largely instanced could easily be done). Plus, no one will have done any storyline come 2.0, so there should be a huge amount of people at all times looking to do these quests.

And considering yoshi wants a lot of leveling to be done with quests, the rewards for doing them will be pretty great, which should be enough of an incentive to do the quests.

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you are only looking at short term, what about a few years down the line when a majority of the playerbase is high level? As a new player you are going to have a much easier time getting help if that help doesn't have to go way out of their way to gear up just to do it.

When level caps were removed from CoP, I helped someone with airship, and it was easy, there was no sense of accomplishment flying through a level 50 fight at 75, when I did it, yes I had a hard time getting it done, because of how late I came to the game, but I persevered with PUGs, and linkshell help, after a lot of fails when I finally got the win it felt really good, I felt I deserved access to Sea.

Whereas the fights with no level cap (unless they are designed as endgame) are dull when you just one shot every mob. People were complaining how easy job quests were when they were clearing them on lvl 50s, with a level cap they would be a lot more challenging.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

you are only looking at short term, what about a few years down the line when a majority of the playerbase is high level? As a new player you are going to have a much easier time getting help if that help doesn't have to go way out of their way to gear up just to do it.

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If that's the issue, the gear could easily be synced as well. Yeah the lv50 gear might not be optimal for a lv30 instance, but it beats having to carry another 12 pieces of gear for that instance.

But again, I'm for making the game less easy, even if that does mean it caters to players less casual.

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Originally Posted by TaalAzura

If that's the gear, the gear could easily be synced as well. Yeah the lv50 gear might not be optimal for a lv30 instance, but it beats having to carry another 12 pieces of gear for that instance.

But again, I'm for making the game less easy, even if that does mean it caters to players less casual.

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I think you are assuming it can easily be done, if so then I think most people wouldn't mind but that's a big assumption.

I fully support level caps on regions (Promyvion style), boss battles and optional extra content. Level sync functionality would be a second step.
I think XIV loses a lot of quality by not having level caps, and not just concerning Toto-Rak or Shposhae.

Edit: I am not 100% sure, but I think that last year Yoshi said something about level caps and to me it sounded like he misunderstood them. If I remember correctly, he thought we're talking about "nobody above level XX can enter", which would be wrong. It should be made clear to him and the game designers that level capping means "Players with level > XX are being reduced to XX and their gear attributes being scaled down like it has been done when wearing stuff of a suboptimal level".

Level caps all the way. It's the only way to control difficulty and have it be balanced and enjoyable.

Breezing through my job quests because I was already level 50 when they were released was not fun at all.

The only way I would support a level cap is if it was optional for the player when running the content. Much like a difficultly selector, being able to level-cap/level sync the group for added challenge and reward would be fine, if it was an option and it wasn't the way it is.

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Originally Posted by Delmontyb

The only way I would support a level cap is if it was optional for the player when running the content. Much like a difficultly selector, being able to level-cap/level sync the group for added challenge and reward would be fine, if it was an option and it wasn't the way it is.

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If it was an option no many would pick it; the point of level cap is to make the content more worthwhile.

I had to think over this one for a bit, but yeah, I'm pretty much all for level caps as long as some kind of level sync exists so we don't have to keep multiple armor sets for each job and class.

The lack of the feature already cheapens a lot of the content in the game. What motivation is there to look for a group to help with earlier content when you can just switch class and out level the content? You can always argue that someone doesn't "have to" switch classes, but for the most part, people take the path of least resistance. Why spend a half hour or longer forming a group when it takes just a few short minutes to switch to a higher level class and stomp the content?

It's worse when you get to a higher level. Now you have AF quests, dungeon's etc. and an environment that enables people to avoid grouping entirely until level cap. You miss out on half of the learning while leveling. Why have lvl 25 primal fights in the first place if everybody uses a 50 to clear it? If you aren't going to put some form of restrictions on the content to at least encourage people to attempt it as intended, then IMO that development time would have been better spent on more open world content like additional leve quests or GC quests.

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Originally Posted by RushRiviera

I'm going to repeat myself here but since there's quite a few people against level caps for whatever their reason may be, how does everyone feel about level sync with enemies that scale to the parties level? OR a difficulty select option similar to the one we have for guild leves?

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Or since some people seem to want to be able to get through the content really quickly, what if there was simply just an option to have the enemies level scale up to that of the highest level party member? It could be as simple as giving the enemy more HP and strength to become more of a challenge for the party, and as I said it could be optional.

This way the party doesn't need to be level sync'd, only the enemy is scaling to some kind of medium in between the levels of the party members if they desire something more challenging.

Opinions?

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Scalable mobs require an immense amount of tuning to be done properly, so that idea is out the window instantly.

I don't care if level sync itself exists if it isn't forced on the players, because then players have the option of facing the content in a more challenging manner or just blowing through it with 2 people if enough people can't be secured for a group.

It protects Square from players getting frustrated with the game, it allows players to continue progressing, and it establishes that option for everyone to experience content as it was meant to be.

At the same time, level sync isn't going to be needed at 2.0 launch; it's something that will be needed maybe 2-3 years into the future as its more of a mature community feature.

If they ever implement any capped content, I like to see a middle ground where, on any level capped content, you can also attempt the content solo at any level. This way you avoid having someone else who is high level just complete content for you, but if you cannot experience the content at the capped level, eventually you can level passed it and solo the content.

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Originally Posted by TaalAzura

If it was an option no many would pick it; the point of level cap is to make the content more worthwhile.

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If not many would pick it then wouldn't that mean that not many want it? So is this about forcing play styles on others?

The arguments for and against this concept are both pretty solid. A system like that has it's pros and cons. I think really the only way to go would be to make it an option to do the "challenge" mode of the fight for higher rewards, similar to the way players now can get more company seals and lodestone achievements for completing the fights with same/varied companies.

There are a lot of other things SE did that I doubt they will do again, like putting fights at the end of long, level capped zones that take hours to reach. (Promyvion, Sacrarium, Riverne). I have experienced the problem of trying to form a group, having friends and statics pass you up on content and then never help you catch up, and giving up on content completely because there was no way to get it done in a practical time frame. I didn't beat Alexander and I never finished CoP because of these crappy progress blocks. While I have a lot of great memories from having done some of these missions, when I quit XI I was sick of that crap. So, yeah, I'm for "optional, syncable content" not "forced level capped content".

I would love it, and absolutely support it. Level caps not only helps keep content fresh, but keeps it challenging as well. In FFXIV content is only considered challenging if you're doing content designed for a level 50 because everything below 50 is a joke. I want to experience a storyline, and feel immersed in it. I don't want to run around and 1 shot content. That is NOT fun. All of those easy primal fights are worthless, and a waste of time.

Not interested. It's unnecessary and to limiting. Let players play freely and do those quests when they want to. Downright forcing lore down players throats won't make the game that more appealing as an MMO. People keep forgetting that this isn't just a final fantasy game but an MMO - and there needs to be a balance.

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Originally Posted by yoshikwalla

Let players play freely and do those quests when they want to..

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Level caps having nothing to do with that

People seem to misunderstand the point of level caps. You're not forced to do a piece of content before you hit a certain level, it simply reverts your character to the appropriate level when doing said content. IE, when doing Totorak, you'd sync to level 30 instead of being able to bum rush it at 50, therefore keeping the content balanced at it's intended difficulty

Level cap content waste inv space. You go back to try to help a lower level player with a lvl25 quest and you cant use any of your gear, so now you have to keep low level gear around if you ever plan on helping anyone. Gear doesn't scale like it use to back at launch. Even if it is just 'optimal' required, you will get 0 stats and extremely reduced defense off of it, and required level gear you know will just get unequipped. Level caps will also increase the number of people that will not help lower level people with content, since only a small handful of people would bother keeping low level gear around to do that content again.

So... no to level caps. It was stupid in FFXI, it would be stupid here.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i'm not saying anything about speed running through everything. what i am saying is that i'm willing to go help a low level player with their content if they can't find a party because i can run through it quickly and not take alot of my time doing so. if they level cap it i'll just act like everyone else already does and ignore their cries for help.

the last thing this game needs is just another reason for people to be less likely to help each other. this game already has enough of that as it is and doesn't need help getting more that way.

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Missed this :P but pretty much this. We dont need another reason not to help the new player, nor to start making this game new-player unfriendly.

I wouldn't be that bothered.

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Originally Posted by Reika

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In XI, your current gear would scale back with your level, meaning you didn't need to carry low level gear. If XI could do it, why can't XIV?

And again, with XIV balanced around sharing skills from every job, the majority of the player base should always have at least a few things worth gaining experience/gear for

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Originally Posted by Jocko

In XI, your current gear would scale back with your level, meaning you didn't need to carry low level gear. If XI could do it, why can't XIV?

And again, with XIV balanced around sharing skills from every job, the majority of the player base should always have at least a few things worth gaining experience/gear for

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Must have been something that changed after I quit, because when you went back to do a lvl25 cap mission for example, your lvl26+ gear couldnt be used at all.

And, as I said, gear in FFXIV does not scale how you want it to anymore. It will be like you arent wearing anything at all, and you wont be able to wear any gear that requires a certain level.

This is just going to be detrimental.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Must have been something that changed after I quit, because when you went back to do a lvl25 cap mission for example, your lvl26+ gear couldnt be used at all.

And, as I said, gear in FFXIV does not scale how you want it to anymore. It will be like you arent wearing anything at all, and you wont be able to wear any gear that requires a certain level.

This is just going to be detrimental.

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...If they introduce level sync, it will? This really isn't an issue at all.

I would totally support this.

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Originally Posted by Jocko

...If they introduce level sync, it will? This really isn't an issue at all.

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Banking on them doing something they haven't done yet for this game?

Game doesn't need level cap content. Go help the lowbie with whatever quest he/she needs help with as lvl50, or whatever the cap may be.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Banking on them doing something they haven't done yet for this game?

Game doesn't need level cap content. Go help the lowbie with whatever quest he/she needs help with as lvl50, or whatever the cap may be.

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Hope the lowbie enjoys having no immersion or sense of accomplishment.

One of the things you could do in the older Final Fantasy games, was to out level the content so you could beat it easier. I don't think we should have level caps at all. I dont want to see Limit Break associated with level caps ever. I think Limit Break should either be the name of the group combined attacks or the "merit" system of this game. my preference would be the merit system tho.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Banking on them doing something they haven't done yet for this game?

Game doesn't need level cap content. Go help the lowbie with whatever quest he/she needs help with as lvl50, or whatever the cap may be.

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and who of these two would ever enjoy this? right, NO ONE...!

the lv 50 is hitting mobs easily down and the lowbe is just watching.. "ah well i go afk then"
really good for new players who want to get entertained!

that shouldnt be a MMorpg from the stoneage... seriously. A MMorpg of today needs to entertain people. killing ifrit with 2-5 hits has in the first place nothing to do with entertainment, secondly destroys immerson, last but not least its no challenge at all. why playing a story based pvm game when it has no challenge to offer? its lame and nothing more.

and its just ridiculous to kill ifrit under 30 seconds.. its a damn god. even in the story mission. and the ifrit of the story mission is still much more easy than hardcore ifrit.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Hope the lowbie enjoys having no immersion or sense of accomplishment.

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[x] vote for a level cap/sync system for instanced dungeons/boss fights like in FFXI. Where your character and your equipment was downgraded to the maximum level for the instance.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

Because players don't go back and do old content. It happened all the time in XI. Furthermore, when you sync people down to the "appropriate content level" it just makes veteran players even LESS likely to go back and help. At least give these new players (with high level friends) the opportunity to experience the story (with a quick run through) and then get on the same content as the rest of the player base.

Saying "find a helpful linkshell" is not an appropriate response either. If you go help these poor people, good for you, but 95% of the population will not help a random stranger shouting trying to assemble a group for outdated content. Remember CoP, Prommies? Same garbage situation that you're presenting in this thread.

More realistically, how many of you will go back and do HAMLET once you finish all of your seals? "Good luck with that right?"

So while all the old players and their cliques successfully clear content, the poor new guy who needs to assemble a group of (most likely eight) people that are all on this specific quest, (and actually know how to clear content well) will end up being stuck at the specific mission quest that prevents them from continuing even further in the story and catching up to the main content player base.

Do you know what happens when people are literally "prevented" from progressing further in a game? They quit. Why? Not because they are lazy, or slackers, or entitled to instant satisfaction, but because they are presented with a barrier that foreshadows a continuously punishing cycle that these poor new players will never get to the main content that is currently active.

Abyssea was the solution to this problem in XI, and a majority of you HATE and LOATHE it without understanding the fact that it was NECESSARY to sustain the longevity and life of FFXI. It was necessary to close the MASSIVE gap that XI created in a content and level base.

This is why level caps on content should not exist, and this is why level caps on anything contribute further to fracturing the player base.

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I have no FF11 experience. But besides the specifics, i agree with the sentiment. When i started in FF14 Imperial devices was a sort of roadblock for me. It took me weeks for someone to be willing to help a new player with no LS yet (Thanks again Bishop ^^ ) to finish the quest.

I was run through, by a lvl 50. The content was done, but i didn't do it. I just followed behind and then talked to the NPC. I'm still grateful i could get it done. And this wasn't even a Level Roadblock. The only thing that brought folks to Toto-rak after was seals. It was then abandoned again when Chocobo Escourts and the like got buffed.

Later on i've run a few new folks through Imperial Devices, just like Bishop did for me. I warn them "I'll help ya, but its more fun with people of your level" and almost always the responce is "I just want to get it done finally".

And this isn't even a Roadblock to leveling. The only time you can expect everyone to do something at the same time is day of release. After that, it gets harder even faster. Unless you get "+5% drop rate in Toto-rak when party includes 2 lvl 30 or below players" Your not likely to see alot of people helping.

Its a shame, but its also understandable. Theres a reason Getting Hamlet provisioner is easier and easier, cause less people are fighting over the top 3. Or the 20 at all. Folks are finished with it. And even if you give some reason, be it seals, points whatever, not everyone, and possibly not even alot, are gonna go back anyway.

Its a neat idea in theory, but the persistance of MMOs is in part why i think the idea doesn't work. If we were all reset every 6 months then the new people would have use back doing it again. But i doubt anyone wants to start over every 6 months.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

and who of these two would ever enjoy this? right, NO ONE...!

the lv 50 is hitting mobs easily down and the lowbe is just watching.. "ah well i go afk then"
really good for new players who want to get entertained!

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add level caps/sync or whatever you want to call it and let's see how much fun they have when nobody is willing to help. i know if they add it i'll do like the vast majority do already and just ingore people begging for help and then they will eventually quit.

right now i'll help because i can do it on my 50 and take as little out of my time as i can. if you make it to where it takes longer i'll just stop helping.

Well, level cap content will continue to be a dumb idea to me. If you rose above the strength of the mission or dungeon, you should stay at that strength. It's silly to magically be weakened because you went and leveled up. And once again, we dont need every little detail about FFXI transferred over. FFXIV is good without that stupid lvl cap restriction.

And, People already do enough ignoring of shouts for help with missions and such, you think level caps/lvl sync is going to fix that? If a lvl50 could easily go and destroy lvl30 ifrit, but still wont answer the call for help, why would he/she do it if he/she would end up losing 20lvls for the fight. Now its not really helping, its going back and doing it all over again, for NO reward.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

If not many would pick it then wouldn't that mean that not many want it? So is this about forcing play styles on others?

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Kinda how i hear it too bud. In theory level cap dungeons sound like a neat idea. But really what FF14 needs in my opinion is a wide open door to new players to get in and start moving up.

The community is going to be very top heavy Day 1 of 2.0 And asmuch as we all would like day 1 to be absolutly swampped with new people i wouldn't be surprised if they filter in more slowly as word of mouth gets around that its really good (if it is).

I'm not a big fan of the idea in an MMO setting. But i definately think this isn't what FF14 needs at all. FF14 needs fresh blood, and throwing a roadblock infront of them when they barelky have their foot in the door isn't going to help the situation.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Banking on them doing something they haven't done yet for this game?

Game doesn't need level cap content. Go help the lowbie with whatever quest he/she needs help with as lvl50, or whatever the cap may be.

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They've already done it, in XI. It's the same team. Discarding a helpful mechanic because it's 'in XI' is foolish, almost bordering on discriminatory. What kind of mentality is that?

Content finder... if only they were adding such a thing.....

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Originally Posted by Jocko

They've already done it, in XI. It's the same team. Discarding a helpful mechanic because it's 'in XI' is foolish, almost bordering on discriminatory. What kind of mentality is that?

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you think if they add level caps and sync then high levels will want to help low levels more? what game are you playing because in the one I play its hard enough to get a 50 to run you through content (unless in a good LS which I am) and that is quick, let alone get a 50 to come do that same content in a longer amount of time.

Low level content shouldn't be difficult for low levels to begin with. I expect low level content to be low level appropriate just like in many final fantasy games.. Besides level appropriate gears, will always be better than the sync gears, and I really hate carrying around sets of different equipments just for lvl caps.

There is many ways to exploit that system too. One way is by getting a low level character to farm exp or whatever the reward is and then rinse and repeat that process till you had enough.

By the way FFXI got rid of level caps in CoP areas and missions. Just thinking about how they going to scale the meteria gives me a headache.. I dont want that junk here