Someone on reddit analysed how many main cast lines are in the game. Wuk Lamat is 3rd

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

I'd like to add that according to the Reddit post comments. The term 'lines' refer to every dialogue in-game. Including Main quests, side quests, seasonal quests, NPCs dialogues, etc.... and not just the MSQ dialogue only, which I believe makes this even more disastrous.

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You're right. It is an actual tragedy lol

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Originally Posted by Rueby

How about this thing called moderation? If she was likeable rather than incompetent/insufferable, maybe people may have liked her? I wanted to be with Erenville and Krile, rather than her. Her arc is extremely bland, we wasted time playing a contest that was rigged from the start.

From the first time she appeared, I had no interest in helping her. She's a trope I hate, but Lyse and Minfilia were also tropes I hated but none were that overbearing compared to Wuk. The entire time I wanted to get away from her. DT had solid ideas, themes of grief, rebirth, what makes someone themselves, but it all got squandered on her.

I'd rather have ShB a dozen times, at least Emet carried that expansion on his shoulders before he got downgraded into 'guys please don't unsub, look forward to the new stuff! but I want nothing to do with you btw'

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THANK YOU. FOR SAYING THIS. Erenville's story was MILES better than Wuk lamat's. And Krile? The expansion that was supposed to tell us more about her, her story and her parents and grandfather? What did it tell us? Barely nothing

Given she is one of the main characters of the expansion, this makes total sense.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

Sometimes, I feel like you just like randomly going at people. My head is back in my hands. Do better.

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I think it's adorable that I've made such a long lasting impression on you. :)

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Originally Posted by NamiRocket

Ooo, ooo, I wanna quote my post multiple times with the same response, too! It looks like fun!



Why can't we talk about it? Why is it goofy!? It's only right we get to talk about it! It's a real problem and Japan needs to know about it!

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Are you okay

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Given she is one of the main characters of the expansion, this makes total sense.

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LOL. Sure....it totally makes sense for a new character to have more lines than main cast members with 10 years of story. No oddity or overexposure issue there....

"Wuk Lamat" now being Krile's most used phrase is absolutely disgusting.

This statistic doesn’t surprise me, really. It just goes to show how hard they were trying to push the character.

They need to learn that you can create very likeable characters without flooding the dialogue or screen presence with them. Sometimes less is more.

Meaningful story, actual character writing, drama, conflict that matters and is nuanced, characters that make sense and react like actual people would = Liked character.


SE story-room: "But how about.. we replace all that with MORE EXPOSURE AND DIALOGUE and make her yell "I want to protect your smiles and papas peace" like Naruto or any common shonen protag! A million times over, because the audience wont get her flimsy motivation otherwise! They need to remind you of it every damn cutscene" "Yeaah!" "Give this man a raise!"

Its like they looked at what people liked about the story before and went "Nah fam, they like that kind of stuff. Less of that"


I still have this tinfoil hat theory about Yoshi P crying about it being too dark and gloomy lately and him wanting a break from it, so he directed this happy go lucky mess that doesnt make any sense in the worldbuilding.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

Are you okay

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I'm choosing to spend time on a web forum surrounded by the most miserable people on the planet. I'd say no.

it is funny but not surprised

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Originally Posted by NamiRocket

I'm choosing to spend time on a web forum surrounded by the most miserable people on the planet. I'd say no.

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Don't worry, you could be spending time on a forum surrounded by mindless lemmings that applaud like clapping seals no matter the slop placed in front of them.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Don't worry, you could be spending time on a forum surrounded by mindless lemmings that applaud like clapping seals no matter the slop placed in front of them.

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Hell yeah, the clapping slop seals sound fun!

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Originally Posted by BunnyReaper

Brother, you're getting all pissy about the objectively worst character in the game, it's quite funny.

You are absolutely allowed to say what you think but you are blind, do you not see why there is "months old threads" about Wuk Lamat? Is it cause maybe she's boring? Cause maybe she feels forced? And the graph is goofy because... It shows that she has talked more in 6 months than characters that have been in the game for 11 years?

People don't like her for good reason, she is unlikeable, and FORCED, which is worse than the former.

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This is about as egotistical as it gets. Your opinion is indeed subjective and you are deliberately deflecting your 'pissy' attitude at them because they won't agree with your poor obsession with a genuinely positive character. Does Thancred have a goofy little laugh when lahabrea possesses him? Sure, does it invoke feelings of fury? No, I just copy it and make my friends laugh. But negativity will always get more traction. So keep on burning guy who doesn't like DEI. What's wrong with diversity by the way lol.

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Originally Posted by Gunz_Zbestest

This is about as egotistical as it gets. Your opinion is indeed subjective and you are deliberately deflecting your 'pissy' attitude at them because they won't agree with your poor obsession with a genuinely positive character. Does Thancred have a goofy little laugh when lahabrea possesses him? Sure, does it invoke feelings of fury? No, I just copy it and make my friends laugh. But negativity will always get more traction. So keep on burning guy who doesn't like DEI. What's wrong with diversity by the way lol.

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There's a growing trend on these boards for some posters to claim that their opinions are "objectively" true.

I have a feeling I'd probably have grown to dislike her even if she was written well. It was apparently 10+ years of dialogue in a month

but then considering her entire character arc is the first line of the pokemon opening theme...
and they did the poochy thing from the simpsons where whenever shes not around everyone else is just "where's poochy? "i wonder what poochy is up to?"
kind of gets even more crazy to think about when you realize there's a pretty huge chunk where she's gone and your following erenville's story so all that dialogue is actually only like 3/4 of one expansion


WoL being heavily used makes perfect sense.
Characters addressing you directly isn't really something that can be compared

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Originally Posted by NamiRocket

I think a lot of people here like being the central focus of everything (in the game, I mean). Being the figure that saves the world from a life-ending calamity over and over again. Being praised for it. The whole deal.

I, personally, think just doing that over and over and over gets extremely stale, but extremely stale is apparently what some people want. I don't think Dawntrail's story is perfect. Actually, I have some major gripes with it, too. But I'm happy they tried something different, even if it wasn't always as successful as they'd probably have liked it to be. I adore Shadowbringers, but I don't want Shadowbringers over and over and over again.

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It's not so much saving the world over and over as much as FFXIV being basically The Adventures of the Warrior of Light. Yes, past story arcs have involved those aspects. But it's also possible to have more low key adventures. The most important thing about past expansions is the framing that these were the WoL's adventures. So the events were framed from the WoL's perspective. The WoL is the in-game avatar of the player. By having the events framed this way, we the player are able to connect with the world by way of our avatar's interactions.

With DT, events are framed as Wuk Lamat's adventures. Many things are from Wuk Lamat's perspective. We're very often just there in the background. It's still possible to connect with the story and world from this sort of focus, like with a movie, but it's jarringly different than the perspective that has been presented in the rest of the game. And so people are giving feedback that they dislike this new perspective and this isn't the experience they want to have from XIV.

They may decide this a new path they want to go on and XIV will no longer be The Adventures of the WoL. And if so, then I imagine those who don't want that experience will leave. They may gain some who prefer that experience. But it's not really clear how they want things to be right now, so feedback is given and we're kind of in a waiting period to see what their future perspective will be.

I like Wuk Lamat. She's cute.

She's going to get the Ysale/Hien/Lyse/Exarch/Venat(and gang) treatment. The expansion companions eventually leave. Just enjoy the time they're here. Their time will be over eventually.

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Originally Posted by tsuchii

I like Wuk Lamat. She's cute.

She's going to get the Ysale/Hien/Lyse/Exarch/Venat(and gang) treatment. The expansion companions eventually leave. Just enjoy the time they're here. Their time will be over eventually.

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Nothing to like about that character IMO. The main issue is that if you didn't like Lyse/Hein/ect. they didn't get much screen time, even in their expansion. In DT it is constantly Wuk Lamat or Wuk Lamat mentions. The Alliance Raids and other side content all make continuous references to Wuk Lamat and it's beyond exhausting.

But where is WoL on this list? Does nodding with our prodigious muscular neck muscles count?? :o

Don't worry, since the writers already have the story done with DT, Wuk Lamat will be getting more protagonist than ever.

Don't worry, there's still a very good chance we can pump up those numbers and put her at #1 where she belongs.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

I'd like to add that according to the Reddit post comments. The term 'lines' refer to every dialogue in-game. Including Main quests, side quests, seasonal quests, NPCs dialogues, etc.... and not just the MSQ dialogue only, which I believe makes this even more disastrous.

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The list they give of their dialogue sources is "2.0 to 7.1 MSQ, Alliance Raids, Job Quests, Seasonal Events, and Collaboration Events".

This seems to be missing a number of elements that might tip back the balance somewhat: trials, normal raids and other similar side stories such as Eureka (if they are not using "alliance raids" as a catch-all), chatting with characters between objectives (which may be attached to the NPC rather than the quest) and dungeon voiceovers and trusts.

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Originally Posted by Nihility

I have a feeling I'd probably have grown to dislike her even if she was written well. It was apparently 10+ years of dialogue in a month

but then considering her entire character arc is the first line of the pokemon opening theme...
and they did the poochy thing from the simpsons where whenever shes not around everyone else is just "where's poochy? "i wonder what poochy is up to?"
kind of gets even more crazy to think about when you realize there's a pretty huge chunk where she's gone and your following erenville's story so all that dialogue is actually only like 3/4 of one expansion


WoL being heavily used makes perfect sense.
Characters addressing you directly isn't really something that can be compared

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Funny that you mention that. Because forget Naruto, Wuk Lamat is "Ashelia Ketchum" in terms of writing.

Sun & Moon generation Ashelia Ketchum even.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

I'd like to add that according to the Reddit post comments. The term 'lines' refer to every dialogue in-game. Including Main quests, side quests, seasonal quests, NPCs dialogues, etc.... and not just the MSQ dialogue only, which I believe makes this even more disastrous.

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This seems to be the case. For example, Wuk Lamat accompanies us often in battle, so you get various segments like this:

Wuk Lamat: I've got you!
Wuk Lamat: Yaaaaaargh!
G'raha Tia: That was too close...
Wuk Lamat: Steady now.
Wuk Lamat: Dammit!
G'raha Tia: Spread out, everyone.
Wuk Lamat: You'll pay for that!
Wuk Lamat: Thank you.
The giant colibri flies into a fit of rage!
Wuk Lamat: What's gotten into this thing!?
G'raha Tia: Try aiming for its wings!
Wuk Lamat: Hmph, that was hardly a tickle!
Giant Colibri: Hardly a tickle!
Wuk Lamat: Try this!
Wuk Lamat: Nothing to it.

These are all counted as separate lines. Personally I think it's silly to consider a line like "Yaaaaaargh!" to have the same 'weight' as a line of exposition or drama, but this analysis collapses all context and meaning. For example, many of the lines in the above text are different lines by virtue of appearing in different text bubbles, but are clearly semantically and contextually grouped together. Given how inflated the statistics likely are, I'd be more interested in a report of 'meaningful' lines by character.

Wuk bashing besides, but you cant judge anything based on this right now, if you wanna see the true % you need to make a sheet and make a list for every single expansion to see how much of a expansion are spoken by xyz npc, because like earlier someone said that wuk has close to the same % then alpidumb has in HW

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Originally Posted by Exmo

This seems to be the case. For example, Wuk Lamat accompanies us often in battle, so you get various segments like this:

Given how inflated the statistics likely are, I'd be more interested in a report of 'meaningful' lines by character.

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You act as if other characters didn't accompany us through dungeons for 3 expansions now. Even with that none of the Scions come even close to Wuk Lamat over 3 expansions of being with us and also with us in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

Wuk bashing besides, but you cant judge anything based on this right now, if you wanna see the true % you need to make a sheet and make a list for every single expansion to see how much of a expansion are spoken by xyz npc, because like earlier someone said that wuk has close to the same % then alpidumb has in HW

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The reddit post did that.
And you can't compare Wuks yabbering in Dawntrail to Alphinauds blabbering in Heavenward as Heavensward has much fewer lines.

If anything Wuk Lamat talked so much that her lines are more thna half of the entire lines in HW by all NPCs combined.

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

Wuk bashing besides, but you cant judge anything based on this right now, if you wanna see the true % you need to make a sheet and make a list for every single expansion to see how much of a expansion are spoken by xyz npc, because like earlier someone said that wuk has close to the same % then alpidumb has in HW

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The post linked in reddit has that stuff included. It's something like Alphinaud has 20% of HW lines, Wuk Lamat has 24% of DT lines. Not a huge difference. Why there's a discrepancy in how their presence is felt, if not in nature then at least in severity, is open to interpretation. I would guess either some people are affected more by DT having many more lines in total than HW, or people like Alphinaud more so don't mind him taking up the room, but they don't like Wuk Lamat as much so are faster to anger. If that's the case... line count doesn't really matter, and this is just a new stick they can use to flog the horse.

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Originally Posted by ViinaS

You act as if other characters didn't accompany us through dungeons for 3 expansions now. Even with that none of the Scions come even close to Wuk Lamat over 3 expansions of being with us and also with us in dungeons.



The reddit post did that.
And you can't compare Wuks yabbering in Dawntrail to Alphinauds blabbering in Heavenward as Heavensward has much fewer lines.

If anything Wuk Lamat talked so much that her lines are more thna half of the entire lines in HW by all NPCs combined.

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Thats why i said you need to get all lines for every expansion, you cant compare a expansion which has 5 lines with a expansion with 100000 lines, if i wanna compare wuk to the other npcs based on a % we need to compare it to EVERY expansion seperated as %


Like as example if alphinauis talk in HW was 50% from all HW voicelines and wuks DT lines are 40% based on the % its still less talk then alphi did, the exact numbers on voice lines doesnt matter because we judging it based on the % of the voicelines

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Originally Posted by Exmo

The post linked in reddit has that stuff included. It's something like Alphinaud has 20% of HW lines, Wuk Lamat has 24% of DT lines. Not a huge difference. Why there's a discrepancy in how their presence is felt, if not in nature then at least in severity, is open to interpretation. I would guess either some people are affected more by DT having many more lines in total than HW, or people like Alphinaud more so don't mind him taking up the room, but they don't like Wuk Lamat as much so are faster to anger. If that's the case... line count doesn't really matter, and this is just a new stick they can use to flog the horse.

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yea thats exactly what i meant, based on the % alphi and wuk are really close, its probably because wuk did 24% nonsense lines but still the % between them is very close

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Originally Posted by BunnyReaper

All credit goes to u/turn_a_blind_eye/Rise Narukami and u/eriyu.

Like the title said, someone posted on the XIV subreddit some very cool and interesting graphs, I do not know if I can post links in this forum or not, if I can, I will edit with a link to it.
Top 3 characters with the most lines from 2.0 to 7.1 in total:
1. Alphinaud at 93,649, 7.1%.
2 Alisae at 48,404, 4.3%.
3 Wuk Lamat 39,134 4.2%. In one expansion.

Wuk Lamat is *BARELY* behind Alisae, a character that has been with us since the very first cutscene, since the start of the game.

And with those 39,134 lines, she has basically said the same things every single time, never anything new. She is genuinely the most forced, uninteresting, bland character in the game. How is a character that has been here for only ONE expansion, and not even a full one at that, have almost more lines than Alisae? Why force her so bad?

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Put the link in your first post, please. https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...rom_arr_20_to/

Also, you mixed the word count and the line count. how can 48k be 4.3% and 39k be 4.2% while 93k is 7.1%? You misread the chart : the absolute numbers you gave are the word count, the percentage the line count. It's 3162 lines for Alisaie, and 3077 for Wuk Lamat. Please fix your first post, you can put reddit links in them, it's better to have a first post that does not seem off. Especially if you're gonna do the same error on the japanese forum.

It's an interesting bit of data, especially because it includes all expansions to date. You wouldn't ordinarily expect a newly introduced character to have the third highest line count after 10+ years of expansions.

The most commonly used words is also interesting. A number of older characters seem to bring up the Warrior of Light as their most commonly utilized phrase, while that has shifted towards WL when you look at some of the prominent characters from this expansion. It reflects the abrupt shift in protagonists.

It's not surprising that if you build a ten year series around one protagonist (the player character) and then suddenly switch the entire story focus over to a freshly introduced one, there is a very real risk that your audience won't feel the same connection that they did previously. They gambled and failed. The problem is that the writers keep doubling down on it.

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Originally Posted by NamiRocket

My man, there is an entire months old thread dedicated to whinging about Wuk Lamat and they've been talking about the goofy graph you just posted in there.

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"Not recently"

"Months old"

Come on...

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Originally Posted by Rin_Sato

"Not recently"

"Months old"

Come on...

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Clicking links and gleaning context from what you see on the other side of them is hard.

I like Wuk Lamat. I adored her in 6.58. 7.0 turned that into "like. They horribly mishandled her. I'm glad she was still present in 7.1 but I'm also very much glad we got to spend time away from her.
Now if we could get some time with Krile and she can bump up her dialogue count and knock "Wuk Lamat" down from being her most spoken phrase that would be lovely.
But I still like Wuk Lamat and I'm happy to have her around for a while longer. They just need to use her better.

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Originally Posted by NamiRocket

Bro, this dead horse is a fine paste by this point. You can put the bat down.

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I mean with how much Wuk Lamat beat us over the head with her "I love peace!' non arc that never grows in a meaningful way, and everyone and their mother exists in the plot solely to give her affirmation and tell us how great she is, far seems fair.

Alisaie only really joined the team on the end of Heavensward, Alphinaud's been hanging around since after Titan in ARR...

But yea, wuk is badly written and takes so much of expansion that she manages to talk more in the relatively short plot than scions characters that have been around you since around level 18...